Mountain Flying

[G-Man]

There's some excellent pubs from the 80s and early 90s that were put out by the DEN FSDO but they're all long out of print. A different era when individual FSDOs wrote helpful stuff about flying. Maybe I should digitize some of those.

Please do! I'd imagine they are public domain and not copywritten, so okay to share. I'd love to read that stuff.
Thanks!

 

[codeeno]

There's some good information/tips posted in this thread. I am based at Front Rage (KFTG) and took the mountain course last year. I learned a lot. I got my rating in OK - where, well, they claim some kind of hills, but, really that's just a pile of dirt or a terrace. If you are going to be operating in, near, or over the mountains, I highly suggest the course. It's hard to get into as it fills up quickly, but, if you also do the flying portion counts as your BFR.

Some of the topics that struck home with me were:

Ground Portion: survival, weather (and lots of weather), and details on sectionals.
In the air: How to safely fly a ridge line, approach a pass, finding "free lift" by riding the updrafts on windward or leeward side of passes, how my plane performed at those altitudes, how planning on paper doesn't equal in the air.​

When I landed at Leadville (KXLV) - it was fine but - the takeoff roll lasted for DAYS! At 9,933' of field elevation a normally aspirated engine doesn't develop a lot of power.

Good luck with your flights and your training!

Dean

 

[Tom-D]

Major rule in mountain flying.. never fly thru, go around, over, but never thru.

 

[Clark1961]

When I landed at Leadville (KXLV) - it was fine but - the takeoff roll lasted for DAYS! At 9,933' of field elevation a normally aspirated engine doesn't develop a lot of power.

Good luck with your flights and your training!

Dean

I just call that a long taxi before departure at Leadville and it's that way even in the turbo 'kota.

 

[codeeno]

Clark - I'd agree with you... it was a high-speed-southwest-esque taxi (no offense to SW drivers). I've never been so acutely aware of sensitive nose wheel steering, gusty cross-ish winds and knowing that I had a long way to go to get to VR LOL

I am surprised that the turbo-dakota was similar. I've heard they could could carry anything and operate out of almost anywhere.

Dean

 

[Anthony]

I am based at Front Rage (KFTG) and took the mountain course last year. I learned a lot. I got my rating in OK - where, well, they claim some kind of hills, but, really that's just a pile of dirt or a terrace. If you are going to be operating in, near, or over the mountains, I highly suggest the course. It's hard to get into as it fills up quickly, but, if you also do the flying portion counts as your BFR.

I used to be based at KFTG with my Tiger, and was in one of "Windchaser's" hangars. I also took the CPA Mountain Flying Course which as you say was excellent.

When I landed at Leadville (KXLV) - it was fine but - the takeoff roll lasted for DAYS! At 9,933' of field elevation a normally aspirated engine doesn't develop a lot of power.

I went in and fortunately out of Leadville several times, and remember a female CFI training in a 150 HP Cessna 172 when I was there. I asked here if it was really 180 HP converted. Nope!

 

[Clark1961]

Clark - I'd agree with you... it was a high-speed-southwest-esque taxi (no offense to SW drivers). I've never been so acutely aware of sensitive nose wheel steering, gusty cross-ish winds and knowing that I had a long way to go to get to VR LOL

I am surprised that the turbo-dakota was similar. I've heard they could could carry anything and operate out of almost anywhere.

Dean

The 'Kota does pretty good but the takeoff roll is longer than normal when at Leadville. Plus they have cheap gas during their fly-in so I tanker out of there. Sorta stupid maybe but the aircraft will do it.

Ahh, final piece of the performance picture is that I rarely pull max power out of the engine. With 6k feet of paved runway I just use normal power of 35" instead of the max 40.

 

[murphey]

There's some good information/tips posted in this thread. I am based at Front Rage (KFTG) and took the mountain course last year. I learned a lot. I got my rating in OK - where, well, they claim some kind of hills, but, really that's just a pile of dirt or a terrace. If you are going to be operating in, near, or over the mountains, I highly suggest the course. It's hard to get into as it fills up quickly, but, if you also do the flying portion counts as your BFR.

Some of the topics that struck home with me were:

Ground Portion: survival, weather (and lots of weather), and details on sectionals.
In the air: How to safely fly a ridge line, approach a pass, finding "free lift" by riding the updrafts on windward or leeward side of passes, how my plane performed at those altitudes, how planning on paper doesn't equal in the air.​

When I landed at Leadville (KXLV) - it was fine but - the takeoff roll lasted for DAYS! At 9,933' of field elevation a normally aspirated engine doesn't develop a lot of power.

Good luck with your flights and your training!

Dean

Which mountain course? A number of the local schools offer a 2 to 6 hour ground school, depending on the school. Colorado Pilots Assoc offer the 8 hour school. So does the Colorado CAP wing, but ya gotta be a qualified CAP pilot to attend. (trivia - the original CAP course was written by the same folks that wrote the original CPA course. GA in Colorado is very incestuous) With all of them, the flying part is separate.

Understand the fundamentals are the same but flying high altitude airports in Colorado is not the same as back country mountain flyin in Idaho or the Appalachians. Each geographic area has its own characteristics.

Altitude at Leadville...My poor 180 hp is a measly 140-150 hp up there.

 

[AKBill]

Flying around SE Alaska is a lot of fun. You always need to plan your out and know exactly were you are at. Expect the unexpected, know what you are flying into.

 

[edo2000]

Major rule in mountain flying.. never fly thru, go around, over, but never thru.

This is good advice when you can do it that way, but there are lots of places you can't or shouldn't without jet or turboprop. At one time I did a lot of flying from southcentral Alaska to southwest Alaska (Kenai to King Salmon, Anchorage to Dillingham, etc.) the Alaska range is in the way and way too big to go around. A lot of the time it is overcast, with guaranteed icing in the spring and fall. If the passes are open (Lake Clark Pass, Merrill Pass, Rainy Pass, etc) that is the way its done, especially flying a normally aspirated piston single. Also, like stewartB said, lots of the destinations are IN the mountains, with no instrument approaches.

There were even days we used the passes with the DC-3s I used to fly (but not often). It was often rough and you would occasionally have to turn back, but safe enough if done responsibly. On the other hand, all of those passes I mentioned have several hillsides covered with aluminum. It is a reminder to not ever become complacent, and to always leave yourself a way out.

 

[denverpilot]

This is good advice when you can do it that way, but there are lots of places you can't or shouldn't without jet or turboprop. At one time I did a lot of flying from southcentral Alaska to southwest Alaska (Kenai to King Salmon, Anchorage to Dillingham, etc.) the Alaska range is in the way and way too big to go around. A lot of the time it is overcast, with guaranteed icing in the spring and fall. If the passes are open (Lake Clark Pass, Merrill Pass, Rainy Pass, etc) that is the way its done, especially flying a normally aspirated piston single. Also, like stewartB said, lots of the destinations are IN the mountains, with no instrument approaches.

There were even days we used the passes with the DC-3s I used to fly (but not often). It was often rough and you would occasionally have to turn back, but safe enough if done responsibly. On the other hand, all of those passes I mentioned have several hillsides covered with aluminum. It is a reminder to not ever become complacent, and to always leave yourself a way out.

I think you missed Tom's humor. He was being literal.

 

[edo2000]

I think you missed Tom's humor. He was being literal.

Copy that. Oops. Excellent advice, in that case.

 

[codeeno]

Which mountain course? A number of the local schools offer a 2 to 6 hour ground school, depending on the school. Colorado Pilots Assoc offer the 8 hour school. So does the Colorado CAP wing, but ya gotta be a qualified CAP pilot to attend. (trivia - the original CAP course was written by the same folks that wrote the original CPA course. GA in Colorado is very incestuous) With all of them, the flying part is separate.

Understand the fundamentals are the same but flying high altitude airports in Colorado is not the same as back country mountain flyin in Idaho or the Appalachians. Each geographic area has its own characteristics.

Altitude at Leadville...My poor 180 hp is a measly 140-150 hp up there.

It was the Colorado Pilot's Association Mountain Course. This course is fundamentals for sure and not something that prepares you for the unimproved landing sites that are quite numerous around the area.

Dean