Morse Code

[JOhnH]

My wife has started her IFR training in our Cessna 172. The plane is going to Sarasota this weekend to get a Garmin audio panel and a GNS 530w, but it currently has a pair of MX 300 Nav/Coms.

The instructor said he could not pick up morse code with our unit ( a unit with which he was not familiar). I am at work now and cannot find anything about that on the internet. Is anyone familiar with the MX 300 that knows if/how we would do that? Does an IFR pilot really need to hear morse code? I haven't used that since I was a boy scout. To show how long ago that was, it was way before I learned how to use a slide rule. And no one had ever even considered NOT getting up to change the TV to the other channel.

 

[ScottM]

I am not familiar with the unit you are talking about, but yes, a IFR pilot needs to know Morse code. The way you identify all the nav aids is through their Morse identifier and if you are lucky enough to use an NDB the only way to tell if it is operating is to maintain a listening watch to the Morse identifier.

 

[ScottM]

Ok, looking at the manual and the radio itself. The identify button on the nav side needs to be selected. For the TKM that is a button on the lower right of the unit labeled VC-ID. When you want to hear the Morse on the VOR you should select this button as well.

USER MANUAL

 

[murphey]

It's not so much knowing Morse code but recognizing the difference between dots & dashes and comparing to the dots & dashes printed on the charts to 1) make sure the VOR/NDB/whatever is working and 2) it's the one you want.

 

[Ken Ibold]

Ok, looking at the manual and the radio itself. The identify button on the nav side needs to be selected. For the TKM that is a button on the lower right of the unit labeled VC-ID. When you want to hear the Morse on the VOR you should select this button as well.

USER MANUAL

Also make sure the nav side volume is turned up and that your audio panel is set appropriately to monitor nav 1 or nav 2, as appropriate.

 

[Lawreston]

.- -.-- ..- ....

....

 

[ScottM]

It's not so much knowing Morse code but recognizing the difference between dots & dashes and comparing to the dots & dashes printed on the charts to

That is about the worst way to ever try and learn Morse code. One should learn by the sounds of the dahs and dits. IMHO writing out dots and dashes to compare to what is printed on paper is a mental overload that will take your eyes off of the instruments for too long. Lets also be honest that those little things are hard to see on the charts, even harder at night. It takes but a couple of hours to learn the Morse code to the level that is needed by pilots. Consider all the other things we learn this should not be an insurmountable goal. Plenty of free online learning websites too. The ham radio guys do a great job of having resources available to teach.

Scott
K9PO

 

[poadeleted20]

Since the Morse code identifier for each station is printed on the enroute and approach charts, there's no need to learn the code, but for IFR operations, it is absolutely essential that you listen to the code and (if you don't know the code) compare it to the charts to make sure you've got the right station tuned and it's working properly. Of course, the 530 does this for you, and displays the decoded Morse on the screen, so that helps, but not for the #2 radio (which is a player in locating intersections), so being able to operate the radio to listen to the code is necessary.

 

[Gary F]

I learned Morse code when I got my ham radio license about 20 years ago. The easiest method was a program where certain nonsense phrases were associated with each code, for example:

a ._ say ah
d _.. dog did it
e . eek
i .. bit it
k _._ kangaroo
f .._. did I fail it

Silly but it works. I can't remember the name of the program.

 

[EdFred]

I am not familiar with the unit you are talking about, but yes, a IFR pilot needs to know Morse code. The way you identify all the nav aids is through their Morse identifier and if you are lucky enough to use an NDB the only way to tell if it is operating is to maintain a listening watch to the Morse identifier.

Uhhhh. No. I don't know morse, I look at the plate, know what it should sound like and listen.

 

[ScottM]

Uhhhh. No. I don't know morse, I look at the plate, know what it should sound like and listen.

Then you probably should give yourself more credit. At least at a rudimentary level you know Morse code. Counting dots and dashes is really not knowing Morse and IMHO not the best way to be spending your time in the cockpit while in the clag and setting up an approach.

 

[EdFred]

Then you probably should give yourself more credit. At least at a rudimentary level you know Morse code. Counting dots and dashes is really not knowing Morse and IMHO not the best way to be spending your time in the cockpit while in the clag and setting up an approach.

I only know G and R because I have the GRR VOR memorized cause I use it all the time for 30day VOR checks.
_ _ .
. _ .
. _ .

Other than that, I don't even know if SOS is dashes dots dashes or vicey versee. I seriously look at the plate and listen, nothing more.

 

[vontresc]

I just hit the ID button on the G1000, and it tells me the ID on the TV

 

[Palmpilot]

Then you probably should give yourself more credit. At least at a rudimentary level you know Morse code. Counting dots and dashes is really not knowing Morse and IMHO not the best way to be spending your time in the cockpit while in the clag and setting up an approach.

When I did my pilot training I brushed up on my Morse code, which had seriously atrophied after I got my ham license, because I figured it would be more convenient, but I really think you're overstating the workload of doing it Ed's way, since it is often necessary to look up the letter designation for the navaid even if you do know Morse.

 

[ScottM]

When I did my pilot training I brushed up on my Morse code, which had seriously atrophied after I got my ham license, because I figured it would be more convenient, but I really think you're overstating the workload of doing it Ed's way, since it is often necessary to look up the letter designation for the navaid even if you do know Morse.

I just think it is one of those things that is really easy to learn. It amazes me at the gymnastics that people will put themselves through to avoid learning the code and to instead use some other sorts of tricks. It is sort of like when people spend far too much learning all those memory mnemonics instead of just memorizing the procedures.

 

[AdamZ]

My wife has started her IFR training in our Cessna 172. The plane is going to Sarasota this weekend to get a Garmin audio panel and a GNS 530w, but it currently has a pair of MX 300 Nav/Coms.

The instructor said he could not pick up morse code with our unit ( a unit with which he was not familiar). I am at work now and cannot find anything about that on the internet. Is anyone familiar with the MX 300 that knows if/how we would do that? Does an IFR pilot really need to hear morse code? I haven't used that since I was a boy scout. To show how long ago that was, it was way before I learned how to use a slide rule. And no one had ever even considered NOT getting up to change the TV to the other channel.

Heck yeah. A Pilot who intends on using VORs, Localizers, ILS etc needs to be able to pick up morse code to identify the station they are tuning in. You may not need to know the entire Morse code alphabet but you kneed to know that Yardley ( ARD) VOR is Dit Dah / Dit Dah Dit / Dah Dit Dit

Because if your not hearin anything or your hearing Dit Dah Dah Dit/ Dah/ Dit Dah Dah, your headed to Pottstown PTW

 

[rottydaddy]

I haven't done much with it, but I have to say that using this chart makes it much less intimidating...

http://www.learnmorsecode.com/

One of these days I'll buckle down and really learn it, but I agree that it's not really necessary, if you can remember the Morse ID you just heard (without writing it down) and spot it on the chart (not a big deal, as you begin with the station you're hoping to be hearing, and it's usually correct). But for sure, understanding the Morse takes that one step out of the process. And it'd just be cool to have that skill.

 

[Doggtyred]

but yes, a IFR pilot needs to know Morse code.

Actually you dont need to know code.

You only need to be able to hear the code and compare it to whats on the chart. There is a decode next to every beacon and on the approach plates.

 

[azure]

The decode is on the charts, yes, but unless your mind is geared that way (or you have really good readers), it can actually be harder to decipher the printed dot/dash format over and over again than to just learn the code and listen.

It took me about 10 seconds to figure out Harley's "AYUH" a few posts back. But if it was sent over the air at navaid speed (which sounds to me like about 5 wpm), I'd get it in as long as it took to send it.

Then again, you could always get a SL-30.

 

[rottydaddy]

The decode is on the charts, yes, but unless your mind is geared that way (or you have really good readers), it can actually be harder to decipher the printed dot/dash format over and over again than to just learn the code and listen.

Maybe my minds' geared that way...back when I first started studying PPASEL-related material, I tried to learn the code by studying a chart that just showed the letters followed by the Morse code, and that didn't work for me as half as well as the method shown in the link. But listening works, for sure- heck, I have "S", "O", and "S" down pat.

 

[Jim Logajan]

I am not familiar with the unit you are talking about, but yes, a IFR pilot needs to know Morse code. The way you identify all the nav aids is through their Morse identifier and if you are lucky enough to use an NDB the only way to tell if it is operating is to maintain a listening watch to the Morse identifier.

I think every nation on the planet that issues amateur radio licenses has finally eliminated the Morse code requirement - thank heavens.

I held a novice class way back in high school and now only vaguely remember 'e', 't', 's', 'o', 'c', 'q', and 'd'. All the rest are gone.

My CFI has related some unusual problems he's seen with students, but never with them making the mental correspondence between the printed dashes and dots on a sectional with the audio signal. I see no reason why a pilot needs to know Morse code - just needs to know what auditory signal to associate with the printed "-" and with ".".

 

[Graueradler]

I think that most people (at least older people) are already familiar with quite a few of the letters. I never fully learned Morse but I at least know S & O from SOS, A & N from learning about radio ranges, the all dits (E, I, S, H, 5) and the all dashes (T, M, O, 0), V from the classical music in "Victory at Sea" U2 from the Lone Ranger Music (titty rump, titty rump, titty rump rump rump), and R but I don't know why. That s 15 out of 26 letters and the 2 is the key to the pattern for all the numbers.

 

[Everskyward]

Aside from S-O-S which my father taught me as a child I don't know any Morse Code. I don't see any problem with reading the dots and dashes off the chart. Nowadays many radios will do it for you and display the letter identifier somewhere.

 

[murphey]

That is about the worst way to ever try and learn Morse code. One should learn by the sounds of the dahs and dits. IMHO writing out dots and dashes to compare to what is printed on paper is a mental overload that will take your eyes off of the instruments for too long. Lets also be honest that those little things are hard to see on the charts, even harder at night. It takes but a couple of hours to learn the Morse code to the level that is needed by pilots. Consider all the other things we learn this should not be an insurmountable goal. Plenty of free online learning websites too. The ham radio guys do a great job of having resources available to teach.

Scott
K9PO

I never suggested anyone write anything down. But if you're going to be using a navaid, the odds are you know which one, probably have the chart in hand, and by listening, can associate with the chart.

Of course I have an SL30 and don't worry about it much.

Back in the Dark Ages, I tried to learn Morse code - neighbor was an avid ham so both his kids & I were eager to learn. They did, I didn't. Something in my brain just didn't get it. I didn't see any logical order, relationship, nothing.

 

[SCCutler]

The principle VOR I use is Maverick, the identifier for which is "TTT." About as simple an identifier as you'll ever see!

 

[Greg Bockelman]

Aside from S-O-S which my father taught me as a child I don't know any Morse Code. I don't see any problem with reading the dots and dashes off the chart. Nowadays many radios will do it for you and display the letter identifier somewhere.

Ditto. Been doing this for 34 years and have gotten along just fine without memorizing Morse Code.

 

[Sac Arrow]

Along those lines, how many people actually bother to ID a VOR? Assuming you dialed in the correct frequency, the chance of receiving the wrong VOR is fairly remote. At least in my area. I never bother on a VFR flight. I just do it to go through the motions on an IFR flight.

 

[Palmpilot]

Along those lines, how many people actually bother to ID a VOR? Assuming you dialed in the correct frequency, the chance of receiving the wrong VOR is fairly remote. At least in my area. I never bother on a VFR flight. I just do it to go through the motions on an IFR flight.

I was taught that it is essential on IFR flights, and I agree with that. If I were sure that I would never dial in the wrong frequency or forget to press the flip-flop button, maybe it wouldn't be so important.

I also have the impression that failing to check the ID is grounds for failing an instrument checkride, but I'm not sure about that.

For VFR flights, it depends on how far I am from home, and also whether I'm using it for a purpose that carries consequences if I screw up, such as remaining clear of airspace.

 

[RotorAndWing]

Along those lines, how many people actually bother to ID a VOR? Assuming you dialed in the correct frequency, the chance of receiving the wrong VOR is fairly remote. At least in my area. I never bother on a VFR flight. I just do it to go through the motions on an IFR flight.

I was taught that it is essential on IFR flights, and I agree with that. If I were sure that I would never dial in the wrong frequency or forget to press the flip-flop button, maybe it wouldn't be so important.

The AA flight that crashed in Bogata had selected the wrong NDB frequency. Had the crew selected the frequency and identified it the accident may have been diverted.

There have been several accidents related to having the wrong frequency selected. It only takes a moment to verify the frequency.

I also have the impression that failing to check the ID is grounds for failing an instrument checkride, but I'm not sure about that.

Absolutely.

For VFR flights, it depends on how far I am from home, and also whether I'm using it for a purpose that carries consequences if I screw up, such as remaining clear of airspace.

Like Reagan said, "Trust but verify".

 

[Ted]

It is sort of like when people spend far too much learning all those memory mnemonics instead of just memorizing the procedures.

Exactly. That's why it amazes me that people go to the effort of memorizing morse code when they can just follow the procedure of checking the chart (which I want to do anyway in case my memory is wrong), and ID it that way. That's the procedure, after all.

Then I cross check my location with the GPS (and in the case of the 530, it IDs the VOR for me).

Like Reagan said, "Trust but verify".

You got it!

 

[poadeleted20]

Along those lines, how many people actually bother to ID a VOR? Assuming you dialed in the correct frequency, the chance of receiving the wrong VOR is fairly remote. At least in my area. I never bother on a VFR flight. I just do it to go through the motions on an IFR flight.

Bad assumption. First, if there's a malfunction, there can still be a signal without the ID being broadcast to tell you the signal is OK. Second, if they're testing it but don't want it used, they sub TEST ( _ . ... _ ) for the regular ID.

Finally, sometimes the same freq is used for more than one thing. For example, the ILS freq at Bedford MA (KBED) is the same for both the 11 and 29 ILS's; the folks in the tower have a switch to go back and forth. My trainee and I were arriving to practice an ILS after passage of a cold front which both cleared the air and changed the runway from Rwy 11 (which they'd been using all day with ILS's) to Rwy 29, which they'd just started using with visual approaches. As we got far enough on the downwind of the vector to final to receive a signal, we looked at the little window in the 530, and it said "I-BED ILS 11 KBED" instead of "I-ULJ ILS 29 KBED." You guessed it -- the tower crew forgot to switch the ILS selector in their cab from 11 to 29. We told Boston Approach, and about 30 seconds later, "I-ULJ ILS 29 KBED" showed up in the window. Imagine that happening in the goo...and not catching the incorrect ID -- ugly.

So, it's not just for practical tests (where it's a pass/fail item) that we need to check the ID on every VOR/LOC we tune.

 

[tonycondon]

I always just look at the chart. i'm not old enough to have trouble reading small print i guess. i've only had one student who never looked at the chart. i bugged him about it one day reminding him that it wasn't good enough just to hear the morse code he needed to make sure that it matched the navaid identifier. Well it turns out he was a radio operater on tankers (KC-97 I think) during the Korea era and still knew morse code.

 

[Gary F]

It's nice knowing Morse code but I'm not convinced that it is worth the effort to learn just to be able to identify a station without looking up the code on the chart.

 

[ScottM]

Back in the Dark Ages, I tried to learn Morse code - neighbor was an avid ham so both his kids & I were eager to learn. They did, I didn't. Something in my brain just didn't get it. I didn't see any logical order, relationship, nothing.

There is a pattern.

The character mirror map shows the relationship of the dahs to the dits.
I learned code to get my ham license when I was 14. Took me a couple of hours of practice to get up to 5 wpm. It took a lot longer to get up to conversational speeds. The other skill that hamming really helped with was picking up a signal in the static. I can hear the Morse identifier far sooner than some of instructors could. But then I really knew what I was listening for. That is something that I think is beyond what pilot really need to know. But learning the code is so easy that counting dots and dashes just seems like so much more work to do.

 

[SkyHog]

Someone please tell me why we don't just replace the morse code on VORs with a recording of:

"ALPHA BRAVO QUEBEC. pause ALPHA BRAVO QUEBEC. pause ALPHA BRAVO QUEBEC"

Seriously, our reliance on old technology still blows my mind.

 

[ScottM]

I always just look at the chart. i'm not old enough to have trouble reading small print i guess. i've only had one student who never looked at the chart. i bugged him about it one day reminding him that it wasn't good enough just to hear the morse code he needed to make sure that it matched the navaid identifier. Well it turns out he was a radio operater on tankers (KC-97 I think) during the Korea era and still knew morse code.

I find it really hard to compare the written dashes - - - to dots, ... When I see -- --- .-. ... . I have a hard time figuring it out. That is because I learned early on that trying to memorize Morse that way hindered one's ability to copy code at fast speeds. That was something that was important to ham guys, not pilots. I learned by sound: dahs and dits. When I was really proficient at copying Morse I was well over 20wpm and I could hear whole words like what we do when we hear spoken words. My code speed is much less these days. 10wpm I can 100% copy and at 20wpm I am at about 75%. During ham radio contests my speed really picks up but then we are only sending a few items of info so it quickly gets easy to figure out what is being sent.

My instrument instructor had a few hams that he taught. When he saw that I was just looking at the written identifier letter and not the Morse and listening he asked if I was a ham. When I did my check ride I let the DE know that I could actually understand Morse and showed her my ham license to prove it (at the time you actually had to know Morse to get a license). She said she gets hams coming through all the time and it would not be a problem.

 

[Everskyward]

Seriously, our reliance on old technology still blows my mind.

The newest technology is to have the receiving radio in the airplane decode the morse for you and put up the letter ID once it has confirmed it.

 

[ScottM]

Someone please tell me why we don't just replace the morse code on VORs with a recording of:

"ALPHA BRAVO QUEBEC. pause ALPHA BRAVO QUEBEC. pause ALPHA BRAVO QUEBEC"

Seriously, our reliance on old technology still blows my mind.

Beats me.

We use lots of old technology. The VORs themselves are not exactly cutting edge. I think they are like 80 years old now.

 

[poadeleted20]

Someone please tell me why we don't just replace the morse code on VORs with a recording of:

"ALPHA BRAVO QUEBEC. pause ALPHA BRAVO QUEBEC. pause ALPHA BRAVO QUEBEC"

Seriously, our reliance on old technology still blows my mind.

Actually, that's how many VOR's were years ago. I still remember listening to "Carlton VOR...Carlton VOR...Carlton VOR..." during my instrument training in the Detroit area. However, the FAA has phased out the voice ID system. Probably just as well -- it's probably easier for my 530 to recognize Morse than words.

 

[SkyHog]

The newest technology is to have the receiving radio in the airplane decode the morse for you and put up the letter ID once it has confirmed it.

But that's still old. If I went out and created a machine that took teletype and read it aloud for you, then emailed it to you, I'd still be dealing with teletype instead of typing an email from one place to another.

If we need positive audio confirmation, reading the ID aloud would be a better idea than relying on beeps.

BTW - I know Morse Code, so that isn't a factor in what I'm saying.