Morbid enamoring - Why? An open Letter

Unit74

Unit74

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Unit74
Why is it many, many of us are in lust with posting plane wrecks and crashes within the aviation world? It would seem that we have a certain desire to fawn over the misfortune of others and more often then not chastise the decisions they made ad nauseam. There appears to be a certain satisfaction in not only being the first to post these incidents, but take on a type of ownership in many cases saying things like, "This was at my field" or "I just departed that place" and "My friend knew that guy" in a sort of disconnected sense of satisfaction with some loose connection to it.

So why is it WE, and I say WE, have this uncontrollable desire to post every accident, incident and death associated with the exact modality we then turn to and hope it isn't us next time? I just don't get it. People crash cars, boats motorcycles; jump off bridges and eat the business end of firearms every day. Why do WE feel the need to remind everyone on the interweb that the hobby we enjoy may kill us tomorrow AM? Training, situational awareness, blah, blah, blah.... I call BS all on that noise. We want to argue about what happened as if we really know I suspect. We send false condolences and "RIP" posts when I seriously doubt they are genuine, as we take another sip of coffee in the AM opening the next post about LOP ops and the next Garmin G5 software release with nary a second though about the down aviator.

I suppose that is what the social media has done to us;smashing a like button or sending an emoji flower bouquet to appear thoughtful but really, nobody gives a shi...... I for one don't. I look at it and pretty much say, well, that sucks. But that's about all its worth. It's no different than every other vice out there.... motorcycles, cigarettes, boating, shooting heroin.... All have consequences if unlucky enough to experience them. That's life.

So why? Why do we post like we actually care? Is it out of fear that if we don't, others will think don't as well? Is it a dirty little secret that as a society, we have been socially engineered to act like we care when in reality, we don't; read, Facebook et al. ? Do we think it brings us good karma if we say something immaterial like "Prayers sent" when you know damn well you didn't get down on your knees are prey before you moved on to the next thread about public smoking or the joke of the day?

I guess the sum to these thoughts is this; why do we fawn over crash topics with fake emotions and conjecture in some sort of twisted fanatical race to tell everyone else the worst has happened, then drive out the airport shortly thereafter and do the same thing that got them killed?
 
I don't necessarily fawn over crashes, in fact each one is a little disturbing to me. But I do try to review as many as I can and think there is a treasure of information and lessons to be learned from each one. My goal is to try and learn as much as I can about flying. Some experience its better gained by reading about the mistakes of others rather than committing the errors ourselves with the similar results.

Also I think many if not most people actually do care, we do get anesthetized to it all, but most of us feel empathy for the both the victims and their families. YMMV though.
 
Same reason people watch NASCAR, not for the race but for the crashes.
 
Here's how I think about it:

A plane is a loose assemblage of parts in formation together. Some of those parts are worn out, some are fairly new. Say 1,000 little "TBOs" (or MTBF if you prefer) all flying around. Some of them you know about and keep an eye on. (Engine, vacuum pump, etc), some you have no idea about and their eventual failure comes as a surprise.

A pilot, similarly, is an assembly of skills bundled into one little meatball with a big shiny watch. Some of those skills are sharp and fresh and practiced often and recently. Some are degraded. Some you haven't even thought about because your last flight reviews have all stacked up like swiss cheese slices and there are "holes" waiting to bite you.

So I'm no different. Some of my skills are sharp. Some of them are dull. There are certainly things I haven't even thought about practicing in awhile. Some maneuvers I haven't done since the FAA made me do them for a checkride (ahem, spins) I read crash reports to see if I would have likely survived a scenario as-presented, and to assess whether I should push something higher up the training queue.

Running out of fuel? No, my habits are squarely to pull all 4 caps and assess quantity. The pilot that crashes without fuel in the tanks is a moron jackwagon and deserves my sneer. If I'm having a low self-esteem day I'll pile on to the public shame session and lambast a pilot to make myself feel better.

Misfuelled a piston with Jet-A? Hmm... I sump maybe 1 out of 10 flights, and almost never use a vial to check color. This could burn me. I'll remain quiet but contemplative, but this particular scenario may rise to top of mind. I may use such a crash thread to "out" myself publicly as penance and to try to do better.

Some obscure structural failure? Ugh. I'll join the rabble and try to suss out what a root cause might have been, so that I can distance some odd and horrifying situation from being "likely to happen to me" -- this is where I might impugn maintenance quality or the type of plane or the prowess of its engineers. :)

Botched engine-out response? I hope my training is good enough. But I'll publicly wonder if there were additional workload items or confounding factors -- again, to try to distance it from being "likely to happen to me"

Morbid? I don't think so. I think it's part of a self-analysis, and a bit of acknowledgement that even if we do everything perfectly and train to superhero status, something can still get us and snuff us out if the fates misalign against us that day.

Crash threads are the ones I read the most.

$0.02
 
Yes to the above, but also other tragedies normally aren’t learning events that apply to my personal life. There are no lessons to be gained in the vast majority of reported events for me personally. Flying our airplanes is a different scenario. Most crashes are a result of several negative things occurring. I would like to know what those are to minimize my own risk.
 
Wow - I don’t really get OP’s rant on this. Sorry if you think everyone’s “RIP” and “sad” statements are not genuine. Aviation -especially general aviation - is a very risky hobby with a small margin for error. I always have some measure of trepidation when I fly - I can’t say that’s the same when I drive. I’ve sat in the cockpit at 7000 feet a wondered if my engine quit how I would react? Worse yet, a mid air collision, or running into an embedded thunderstorm. I don’t think I have morbid curiosity about these crash reports. But I always read them and wonder “could that have been me?” Was it a mechanical failure for which no amount of pilot heroics was going to save the day or was it another VFR into IMC? Was it foolish piloting that I like to believe I won’t do or was it just a ****load of bad luck? In the end my curiosity about these crashes is whether I can do something to avoid the same outcome when I fly. I’ve been thinking about the family that is suffering today as a result of the crash yesterday at KPNE. I do really feel bad and I wonder what events lead to this outcome. Sorry, but that’s not morbid curiosity.


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It's so we can feel like superior expert pilots as we dissect and analyze the stupid mistakes that the less expert pilot made.
 
Tommar98 said:
Wow - I don’t really get OP’s rant on this. Sorry if you think everyone’s “RIP” and “sad” statements are not genuine. Aviation -especially general aviation - is a very risky hobby with a small margin for error. I always have some measure of trepidation when I fly - I can’t say that’s the same when I drive. I’ve sat in the cockpit at 7000 feet a wondered if my engine quit how I would react? Worse yet, a mid air collision, or running into an embedded thunderstorm. I don’t think I have morbid curiosity about these crash reports. But I always read them and wonder “could that have been me?” Was it a mechanical failure for which no amount of pilot heroics was going to save the day or was it another VFR into IMC? Was it foolish piloting that I like to believe I won’t do or was it just a ****load of bad luck? In the end my curiosity about these crashes is whether I can do something to avoid the same outcome when I fly. I’ve been thinking about the family that is suffering today as a result of the crash yesterday at KPNE. I do really feel bad and I wonder what events lead to this outcome. Sorry, but that’s not morbid curiosity.


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To me most dangerous is riding my Harley, lost too many people I know, due to people not paying attention, turning in front of, hitting head on, pulling out into intersection, running a stop sign, or light, over 100 people I knew personally have been killed due to idiot drivers.

As for OP statement, yes I'm am probably as morbid a person as you will meet, nothing bothers me. Seen too much death growing up, watched too many people die, it makes a person cold, but nothing I can do to change my life experiences.
 
I try to find every crash video and ATC audio I can find to learn from them and hoping not to repeat the same mistakes. Generally in life I learn by making mistakes, I try my best to avoid it when I am defying gravity
 
Its because aviation is a passion, one that can be dangerous at times. Aviation is also a small community, so there seldom is "6 degrees of separation" between any two pilots.

I study crashes more so because I won't live long enough to make all of the mistakes that have caused so many of these accidents. I do it to make myself a better and safer pilot, not because I think I am. So many aviation accidents are a chain of events, and learning what the links in those chains are to prevent them is just professionalism. I get especially interested in the crashes of "professional" pilots. I look at it from the perspective of if a highly trained and experienced pilot can make this mistake, can I or how can I prevent it?
 
It isn't just pilots.
Go check out the annual publication called "accidents in north american mountaineering"
Or, any climbing/rock& ice magazine.
Or AOPA safety foundation
Or AOPA "I learned about flying from..."

I could go on.

I partly agree with the OP on the morbid fascination. But, that's been part of the human psyche forever. I think the posts are useful if there is a discussion around how we can all learn something from a particular crash/close call. If it's a bunch of "what an idiot" statements, not so much....
 
somebody skipped their Seroquel today.... :D
 
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Would it be better to just put fingers in our ears and repeat “nope nope nope nope, didn’t happen, can’t happen!!” ??
If one person out of thousands reads about an accident and learns something that keeps them out of harms way or pause before making a similar error then that’s a win.
I agree that the speculation can get out of hand. But if someone doesn’t want to read about accidents- don’t click.
I don’t see a lot of high-5ing fanaticism about making the first post.
I personally am a 250 hour pilot that has a lot to learn. I enjoy reading and even the speculation as possible causes. Lot more experience out there then I have been exposed to that I can learn from.
 
Interesting... I’ll take a crack at it.

Perhaps there are several things going on, ranging from the positive to the useless.

1) For various reasons we have a strong safety culture in aviation.
For example, in airline flying, both the public and the industry act with a zero tolerance for ‘defects’ whether those defects are casualties, piloting, powerplants or airframes. The airline safety record reflects it. In varying degrees this attitude seems to be in military aviation and general aviation. Acknowledging and studying the ultimate defect, accidents, is an integral part of safety culture.

2) When someone is killed or injured in an accident, and when it happens near our home, or where we work, or where we just flew, we seem to instinctually put ourselves in that place and are morbidly grateful it wasn’t us. It could of been, but it wasn’t. My time wasn’t up yet but let’s gawk at what happened to that unlucky dude. We all tend to do that.

3) Just plain old morbid curiosity. We all have it despite the fact we’ve been taught to resist it. Nothing to see here, move on.

4) Lastly something specific to the aviation boards. Since the days of rec.aviation people have not only raced to make the first post, but also to guess at the cause and blame the offending people - often the pilot. Then people would jump on that person for coming to premature conclusions and worse, offending people who my know the pilot or family members or just offending the sensibilities of polite aviation society. So, people have learned to simply note the actuality of the accident and politely throw in a RIP. Then wait a bit before joining everyone in the town square to watch the bodies swing on the the gallows and agree that they deserved it.

That’s what I got.


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Unit74 said:
I guess the sum to these thoughts is this; why do we fawn over crash topics with fake emotions and conjecture in some sort of twisted fanatical race to tell everyone else the worst has happened, then drive out the airport shortly thereafter and do the same thing that got them killed?
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Would you rather no one mentioned it?

What make you think people are rushing out to do the same thing? I say that they are going out with the intention of not making the same mistake. That’s kind of the point.

You might be rightly frustrated, but I’m not sure you’re aiming it in the right direction.
 
I reject that most have a morbid curiosity. I assume and, from the comments, see that most are trying to learn how to protect themselves from the same outcome.

I recently stood with two non pilots as they debated whose sports car was faster and handled curves better. I kept quiet but inwardly laughed that i get to regularly fly 160mph in a straight line (no cornering needed). That said, neither of them feel there is a comparison I think.

Flying can be dangerous. If I have learned anything from POA and especially the flying community, it is that there is a safety culture. Don’t be so glib, OP. I think a lot of what I read and learn from this culture may one day save lives. I’d be fine if it was my life.
 
Jamie Kirk said:
I never turn down an opportunity to learn something that may save my life or help me in someway in the future. If I can learn something from someone else then I'll always take the opportunity.
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This.

Crashes are an opportunity to learn. I have a friend who owns an aircraft retrieval business "at an undisclosed location" in Northern California where wrecked aircraft from California, Southern Oregon, and Nevada are picked up at the wreck site and transported to a large facility north of Sacramento for the NTSB and the insurance companies to investigate the probable cause and contributing factors of the accident. Every wreck has a tale to tell and lessons to be learned.
 
I’m doubtful any of us post accident threads because of morbid curiosity. We post and talk about these things to hopefully gain some understanding of why it happened and how to best prevent it from happening to us.

How many times do you hear about a fatal car accident on the news and then go and get behind the wheel your own self? Or hear about a motorcycle accident but still choose to go out for a ride? We love what we love in life.
 
I binge watch air crash investigation and try to figure out what is going to go wrong and why before they tell you. I also do like to read about and understand why these things happen, what are the things that commonly get people and think about how I can avoid that for myself of course.

But yeah there is another thing to it because it could be us. How would I fare if I got into that situation? What would it be like to actually crash? What does it look like when you don't make it? I think that kind of curiosity is pretty natural. There's also the ones that make you feel better about your own flying.... where a pilot made obvious bad choice after obvious bad choice to the point where a crash was pretty much assured and it makes you feel a little better... "well... at least I won't do anything that bad".
 
Why? Because I want to make every effort to avoid having such a thread about me.

For the record, if I ever do, you all have permission to say I was the dumbest SOB to ever crash an airplane.
 
bflynn said:
Why? Because I want to make every effort to avoid having such a thread about me.

For the record, if I ever do, you all have permission to say I was the dumbest SOB to ever crash an airplane.
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My hope is that by someone learning from another's misfortune makes that crash not a total waste.
 
Ryanb said:
I’m doubtful any of us post accident threads because of morbid curiosity. We post and talk about these things to hopefully gain some understanding of why it happened and how to best prevent it from happening to us.

How many times do you hear about a fatal car accident on the news and then go and get behind the wheel your own self? Or hear about a motorcycle accident but still choose to go out for a ride? We love what we love in life.
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A few years ago, friend left church on his Harley, with his wife, made it 2 miles before someone pulled out of parking lot not seeing them, ran over them and bike, several friends were in front and behind. Bike was brought to church until someone could pick it up, I had task of covering it, as covered in blood and skin remnants, I still ride, and really have known well over 100 killed due to other drivers, but I still ride. But not as much as I once did, too many friends gone forever thanks to idiots, and they were being careful.
 
Just think how scary aviation would be if the news was this: Today a plane took off and landed safely. More at 6pm...
 
I'm really confused... Boaters are going to talk about the latest sinking. Geologists are going to talk about the latest earthquake. You would like to see... That we shouldn't talk (at all) about something that's a part of our world? Or that we shouldn't express sympathy for the loss of life? Or that we should emote *more* and give up our coffee and joke-of-the-day to do so? I'm afraid I might have missed the point.

I'm not the "thoughts and prayers" type either m'self... but this is how some people say "I'm going to take a little time out of my day to think about this event and the people impacted." Which can be a very important thing. In any case, plain text or emojis is not the greatest format for expressing emotions. (Maybe that's what your post is really about?)
 
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Katamarino said:
I don't think I've seen a single post from you that's about flying, and doesn't feature bikes. Are you sure you're on the right forum?
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I used to ride... Riding is the closest thing there is to flying. It is a very similar discipline, in that it it requires scanning for traffic that might kill you, you're responsible to make certain your ride is safe enough to carry you to your destination... And it feels as liberating as being in the air...
 
I mentally re-live the last moments of people as I listen to the black box recordings and imagine what they must be feeling, going through.
I have no idea why. I imagine it is weird and unhealthy but I do.

I don't think I have ever read about a crash and said well that dumbass did something I wouldn't do.
I just think "I wonder what it was like to be him/her in those moments."

Never do I offer thoughts and prayers because it is so commonplace a thing to do it is as helpful as clicking "like" on something. Ugh, I read it I guess I should click "like". Its meaningless.

But yeah, I wonder what those last moments are like.
If / When I die in a plane crash. Know I was probably scared as ****, screaming and in a flash, regretting that I ever took up this stupid hobby, I will think of my newly orphaned children and hit the ground overflowing with Adrenalin and self loathing that my choices got me in this situation. And God forbid if they are with me... Eff me!

Edit: And if anyone ever says "He died doing what he loved", Punch them in the ass!
 
Maybe some like to get the news out first, or be the OP in a long running forum thread. Or just like to discuss aviation. Others may have a strong desire to learn and avoid. While others are in shock that this is real and someone they knew, maybe indirectly, died aviating; Or at the same field; Or in the same rental or trainer.

Why not? It’s no different than walking into a bar, donut shop, barber, BBQ, etc and saying “hey did you hear Joe did ...”
 
I like to know because we are always learning.

Although we don’t have to read a RIP post etc, maybe I’m cold but I like to analyze and I’m curious... The news does this all the time with car wrecks, motorcycles, etc... It’s human nature.
 
Lots of fans go to auto races to see crashes.. lots go to hockey games to see fights.
 
Katamarino said:
I don't think I've seen a single post from you that's about flying, and doesn't feature bikes. Are you sure you're on the right forum?
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Yep, flying is something I always wanted to do, I started 20 years ago, then life happened, only had just over 3 hours in the air, this year when I see I am able to get back to flying, I am using this group to stay motivated, and I am working 3 jobs 70-90+ hours a week, 1 of which has me in different cities. I am saving money to take lessons, and paying bills, I will be debt free in 1 year from now. If I don't stay motivated towards flying I know I would wind up building a chopper, probably with a panhead, but instead I am researching airplaines, I actually see one I like, and after I get my license, use my skills to build a Wittman Luce Buttercup.
 
Unit74 said:
....
So why? Why do we post like we actually care? Is it out of fear that if we don't, others will think don't as well? Is it a dirty little secret that as a society, we have been socially engineered to act like we care when in reality, we don't; read, Facebook et al. ? Do we think it brings us good karma if we say something immaterial like "Prayers sent" when you know damn well you didn't get down on your knees are prey before you moved on to the next thread about public smoking or the joke of the day?...
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You post under the fallacious assumption that everyone feels the same as you do, sees things the same as you do, and reacts the same as you do. Rest assured that a great many of us DO care, DO get down on our knees and pray (not prey... that's very different) for those enduring unbearable sorrows and circumstances, and DON'T spend any time on Facebook. The other points many have made re/ learning from other's mistakes and helping us stay ever-vigilant in our own flying are of course very valid, too.
 
"Those who don't learn from the past are doomed to repeat it."
 
Unit74 said:
So why?
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Because what we learn from accidents is invaluable. Aviators have always studied and discussed crashes, and hopefully always will. It can and should be a very positive process.

We are slowly moving past the "bad pilot" concept. In safety we always perform a Root Cause Analysis. The fact that pilots die from CFITs, descending below minimums, or continued VFR flight into IMC doesn't make them "bad pilots." There's a systemic issue that leads to these crashes occurring over and over, and that is what we attempt to uncover and understand by studying the accidents.
 
I read about accidents both to learn about mistakes to avoid, and to remind myself of ones that I'm already aware of.

It's true that some accidents leave me wondering how a person could do something so dumb, but I have done enough dumb things myself to know that someone could be wondering that about me someday.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
But yeah, I wonder what those last moments are like.
If / When I die in a plane crash. Know I was probably scared as ****, screaming and in a flash, regretting that I ever took up this stupid hobby, I will think of my newly orphaned children and hit the ground overflowing with Adrenalin and self loathing that my choices got me in this situation. And God forbid if they are with me... Eff me!!
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FWIW, you will probably experience shock. The Adrenalin will make your thinking fast and vivid. You will probably be able to ponder the accident itself, your fate, and other people that will be effected, all in a small space of time. You’ll feel calm, not scared, even if screaming.

Then hopefully you will survive to tell others.




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