Mode-S and ADS-B

ErikU

ErikU

Pre-takeoff checklist
Joined
Mar 2, 2005
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Seattle, WA
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ErikU
Here is something to ponder...

My airport (Boeing Field, a 100% GA airport) has recently started charging landing fees to ALL non-based aircraft. As you can imagine, this has caused quite an uproar with the pilot community (another story for another thread). I have been attending the airport board meetings discussing this and learned something a little scary...

They have equipment from a company called PASSUR that records tail numbers and airport operations that automatically generates the landing fee bill. It gets it's data from the FAA and can obviously only capture IFR flights and a handful of VFR flights (think flight aware data). However, it can also capture mode-s data with independent equipment that simply listens for mode-s replies and records the tail number!

When we installed mode-s, I had some reservations about flying around with my tail number showing up everywhere even when I wasn't talking to ATC, but I was assured that controllers do not even have access to that information if they wanted it. However, I didn't consider that a 3rd party could capture this data and do something with it... like mail me a bill!

ADS-B data can also easily be captured and includes even more information. Pretty scary thought about third parties using this information to do things like generate invoices or other stuff I haven't even thought of yet.
 
The question is how does the PASSUR system discriminate between a Mode S reply transitioning the airspace and one landing?

I'd suggest your pilot/tenant association request a review of the landing fee program with a focus on how the fees are assessed and where the revenue goes.

I don't think landing fees are inherently evil, but in some cases local governments turn over way too much power to private companies, whose motivation is revenue generation, not an accurate assessment of fees. Similar problems have arisen with privately operated red-light cameras and speeding sensors, and many have been defeated by raising due process concerns.
 
Is Boeing Field a grant recipient? If so, is there not a problem with the practice you have described being a discriminatory practice?
 
Tim asks good questions - I can think of a couple of different ways they could be answered (think altitude and groundspeed). The specific technology doesn't matter, though, as long as it works. Near here there are a couple of airports experimenting with automatic camera systems that will record your N-number, look it up, and send the registered owner a bill. All our EzPass tollbooths already have that technology for one's car. Big Brother is watching you.

Regards,
Joe
 
--start hijack--I not attempting to hijack your thead but looking on airnav i don't see any landing fees's at this airport. Just for my curiosity how much is the fee? It wouldn't so bad if they had Hooter's girls on the ramp collecting the fee.--end hijack--thanks
 
I thought the fee was waived for all non-rev under 12,500 lbs.
 
Ok, like I said, the landing fee issue is another story for another thread. Believe me, I am very active in making this go away. The ASN volunteer is on the board. I didn't want to get in to the whole landing fee thing in this thread, but I can point you to a local forum with all the info.

Currently the landing fees are only published on the king county airport web page. Currently they are in effect for all non-based aircraft. Hopefully this will change in coming months, but like I said, another story for another thread.

Back on topic....

I was surprised to hear how the extracted modes-s was being used, and how it could be used in the future when we all have ADS-B.
 
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