Mission trip to Haiti

woodstock

woodstock

Final Approach
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No, not me. My brother. Just learned this morning from my Mom that he is planning to go with his church.

Any advice/cautions/must dos and MUST DON'Ts?

I have heard horror stories about people being thrown into jail for next to nothing (certainly nothing you would consider being out of the ordinary in the US) and once you are in jail, you are screwed. That's it.
 
my advice/caution/must don't would be don't go.
 
I'm leaving for Haiti, specifically Gros Morne on Mar 10 for a 6 day mission trip. We postponed from the original date in January due to the unrest over the elections but that has settled down quite a bit. The primary thing is to get your vaccinations before you go. I went to Passport Health and basically took what they told me I needed given my destination. Be prepared for sticker shock. My shots ran 900.00 and according to my health insurance company ( United Healthcare ) I do not have coverage for travel vaccinations. I'm in the process of arguing with them over that as some of them like the Hep A/B and Flu should not be restricted to just third world countries. But we will see about all that. Other items I was told about included taking a sleep sack with me to avoid bugs. Our trip leader said to take a sheet and sew it along one side but I decided to get something a little nicer. I went to Hudson Trail Outfitters and bought a sleeping bag liner made from a material that wicks away moisture. It was 44.99 but I figure I can use that in my sleeping bag for camping as well as just using it alone for this trip. I'm excited about this trip and feel the potential danger is outweighed by the opportunity to help the people of La Resurrection church and school. My church has been supporting this school for 25 years now and we have been able to help a lot of people make better lives for themselves. In addition to being there to support the people I want to see what my computer skills can do to help them. I want to investigate the possiblilty of setting up a web site that would allow them to sell some of the art work and locally produced goods they make. Our goal to get them to a point where they don't need our help anymore. We want to teach them to fish, not give them the fish.
 
You dah man. Take iodine or a water purifier, of course eat nothing local that hasn't been cooked within an inch of it's life. Fruits with a rind can be consumed after washing.
 
I've been assured that we will have a supply of bottled water and the food will all be cooked completely. I'm also assured that the local beer contains no harmful ingredients so I may just have to subsist on that :)
 
jtheune said:
I've been assured that we will have a supply of bottled water and the food will all be cooked completely. I'm also assured that the local beer contains no harmful ingredients so I may just have to subsist on that :)
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I'd still take a purifier or bottle of iodine. You just never know. A very lightweight and inexpensive insurance policy you can use again if you ever decide to go camping.
 
My OB/Gyn sister in law goes often as part of a midwife training program sponsored by her practice. She's very enthusiastc about the work. I'm sure she'd be glad to help out with info. Shoot me a pm if you would like to contact her.
 
woodstock said:
No, not me. My brother. Just learned this morning from my Mom that he is planning to go with his church.

Any advice/cautions/must dos and MUST DON'Ts?

I have heard horror stories about people being thrown into jail for next to nothing (certainly nothing you would consider being out of the ordinary in the US) and once you are in jail, you are screwed. That's it.
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Make sure he has his shots and is prepared for anti-malarial drugs. Watch food intake to only cooked stuff, no salads, bottled water (even for teeth cleaning), standard 3rd world travel precautions, etc. Don't bring expensive jewelry or electronics.
 
jtheune said:
I'm leaving for Haiti, specifically Gros Morne on Mar 10 for a 6 day mission trip. We postponed from the original date in January due to the unrest over the elections but that has settled down quite a bit. The primary thing is to get your vaccinations before you go. I went to Passport Health and basically took what they told me I needed given my destination. Be prepared for sticker shock. My shots ran 900.00 and according to my health insurance company ( United Healthcare ) I do not have coverage for travel vaccinations. I'm in the process of arguing with them over that as some of them like the Hep A/B and Flu should not be restricted to just third world countries. But we will see about all that. Other items I was told about included taking a sleep sack with me to avoid bugs. Our trip leader said to take a sheet and sew it along one side but I decided to get something a little nicer. I went to Hudson Trail Outfitters and bought a sleeping bag liner made from a material that wicks away moisture. It was 44.99 but I figure I can use that in my sleeping bag for camping as well as just using it alone for this trip. I'm excited about this trip and feel the potential danger is outweighed by the opportunity to help the people of La Resurrection church and school. My church has been supporting this school for 25 years now and we have been able to help a lot of people make better lives for themselves. In addition to being there to support the people I want to see what my computer skills can do to help them. I want to investigate the possiblilty of setting up a web site that would allow them to sell some of the art work and locally produced goods they make. Our goal to get them to a point where they don't need our help anymore. We want to teach them to fish, not give them the fish.
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Geez..... you guys should have taught them to fish 24 years ago. IMHO
 
Hi

Just an update on this. Remember you are preaching to the choir here.

I need some scare tactics. The latest is that his pastor told him that "you know, out of all those meds they tell you to take, the only one you really need to worry about is the tetanus shot". Yes, he did. YES, HE DID.

His discussion with me yesterday centered around his indignation that I would dare to venture the opinion that the pastor doesn't know what he is talking about (OK, I used stronger words than that). I was informed this was my OPINION and that his pastor has been there before.

John, sounds like you may have just gotten back. How was it? Brother is going in mid-July which has to be a much worse time to go.
 
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hey if he wants to be stupid there isn't much you can do to stop him
 
have him visit a tropical health specialist and get what vaccinations there are. They still have diseases in that part of the world for which we don't have names, but if you aer ready for the ones we know that's at least something.

Added to the risk are things like dysentery and cholera, which are not specific to the tropics but likely endemic. I wouldn't head that way without a good supply of antibiotics and antimicrobials. Have him read this thread. Some of us have been to the third world, thought the conditions in Haiti must be far worse than anything I myself have encountered. A good traveler is a prepared traveler. Can't help the poor and the sick if you're one of them.
 
steingar said:
have him visit a tropical health specialist and get what vaccinations there are. They still have diseases in that part of the world for which we don't have names, but if you aer ready for the ones we know that's at least something.

Added to the risk are things like dysentery and cholera, which are not specific to the tropics but likely endemic. I wouldn't head that way without a good supply of antibiotics and antimicrobials. Have him read this thread. Some of us have been to the third world, thought the conditions in Haiti must be far worse than anything I myself have encountered. A good traveler is a prepared traveler. Can't help the poor and the sick if you're one of them.
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Have you ever been there Mike?

His pastor has and if he says you do not need none of those fancy injection things that should be good enough. After all, the record of religion on science speaks for itself. :thumbsup:
 
ScottM said:
Have you ever been there Mike?

His pastor has and if he says you do not need none of those fancy injection things that should be good enough. After all, the record of religion on science speaks for itself. :thumbsup:
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I'm getting rather tired of your blathering nonsense would you kindly STFU.
 
I just returned from Haiti and I thought it was a very enlightening trip. I've exchanged emails with Woodstock and given her the information I obtained both before and during the trip.
 
Thanks John, I forwarded the list to him. I'll see how it goes.

I really wish the pastor hadn't told him not to worry about it though. He should be leading and doing what it takes to protect his group, not making it sound like a walk in the park.
 
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ScottM said:
Have you ever been there Mike?
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You raise a good point Scott. I have never been to Haiti. However, I have been to places in the same latitude with the same climate, and am aware of the health risks. I can only imagine those associated with the disaster that befell the Haitians.

If my advice is heeded the worst case scenario is a bit of extra weight and expense. If not, the worst case scenario is bad indeed.

ScottM said:
His pastor has and if he says you do not need none of those fancy injection things that should be good enough.
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Perhaps his pastor knows more than I. However, just because he went in unprepared and came out without grief, does not mean he could not have trouble in another trip. Sort of like the pilots who are comfortable descending below legal minimums to scud run. Just because they got away with it once doesn't mean they won't again.

A quick Google search yields a list of preparations one should make before visiting the island. It is quite long. Then again, it is only the internet.

ScottM said:
After all, the record of religion on science speaks for itself. :thumbsup:
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I think this has more to do with one autocratic individual's attitude toward third world travel. My own experience is actually fairly limited, but I have seen plenty of the unwary suffer needlessly.
 
tonycondon said:
seemed to me that scott's post was fairly factual.
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and I would say that Scott is a racist and bigot of the worst sort. He has taken his opinion of a few members of a group and applied it to all members of the group without any knowledge of thier individual thoughts and feelings. Isn't that a textbook example of bigotry?
 
steingar said:
Perhaps his pastor knows more than I. However, just because he went in unprepared and came out without grief, does not mean he could not have trouble in another trip. Sort of like the pilots who are comfortable descending below legal minimums to scud run. Just because they got away with it once doesn't mean they won't again.
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That is my point. You are playing with fire going into places that are having difficulties with sanitation and are also subject to normal tropical diseases unprepared. Just worrying about malaria alone in the tropics under the best of conditions is something that most people should be aware of and take precautions. Going into an area that under the best of circumstances had problems with disease and is now having to rebuild from a disaster is just fool hardy.
 
OK guys, I'm sorry, I didn't want this to become SZ material. Notwithstanding that my "people to whom I'd really like to give a swirly" list has just grown by a few members, I didn't want this to get heated.

ps. by members I don't mean "POA members".
 
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woodstock said:
OK guys, I'm sorry, I didn't want this to become SZ material. Notwithstanding that my "people to whom I'd really like to give a swirly" list has just grown by a few members, I didn't want this to get heated.
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It's not your fault someone has their nose out of joint.

I don't care if this guy's a preacher or not. He's organizing the trip, and if he doesn't have a grasp of basic logistics and making sure his volunteers are properly equipped and protected, he's got no business running the show. And if he can't handle the logistics, how useful is he going to be once they're on-site?
 
I must agree with the other posters. I don't think the pastor in question is representing organized religion in any way (though the past history and present bias of some religious institutions toward scientific discovery is not something about which anyone should boast). However, his marginalization of real world risks is enormously irresponsible.
 
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steingar said:
I must agree with the other posters. I don't think the pastor in question is representing organized religion in any way (though the past history and present bias of religious institutions toward scientific discovery is not something about which anyone should boast). However, his marginalization of real world risks is enormously irresponsible.
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Some religious institutions "some" otherwise well said.
 
You know, I can't quantify the odds. I can't quantify the odds of a car accident either, and just because I have had few fender benders does not mean I am not darn sure to buckle up even if I am only going to the grocery store.

I think it's a noble idea and it will probably be a great experience for him. Now that I know how spendy these meds are, something tells me that the only way he will take them (now that his pastor said not to worry about it) is if I pony up for them. They cost more than an iPad.
 
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woodstock said:
I think it's a noble idea and it will probably be a great experience for him. Now that I know how spendy these meds are, something tells me that the only way he will take them (now that his pastor said not to worry about it) is if I pony up for them. They cost more than an iPad.
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It'll be a whole lot cheaper to pay for the meds than hiring an air ambulance to bring him back here if he catches something...
 
Trapper John said:
It'll be a whole lot cheaper to pay for the meds than hiring an air ambulance to bring him back here if he catches something...
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YOu know, I forgot that I got my parents MedJet last year before our trip to Italy. Given that Dad just broke his hip 4 months before the trip I figured it was a good idea.
 
I second the recommendation of Stiengar. While it's hard to say for sure that this preacher is doing wrong because we don't have enough facts, from what we do know he is not a shining example of a leader for a out of country trip. I can say having just come back from Haiti on a mission trip organized by my church that all the precautions were recommended and taken. Special food was obtained and fully cooked for us. Bottled water was provided. We all had the recommended shots and took the proper medication with us. We traveled as a group. While walking around we made sure that everyone was accounted for at all times. I don't think the problems facing woodstock's brother are the cause of the orginization setting up the trip but rather the person who is directly responsable for it ( the preacher )
 
jtheune said:
and I would say that Scott is a racist and bigot of the worst sort. He has taken his opinion of a few members of a group and applied it to all members of the group without any knowledge of thier individual thoughts and feelings. Isn't that a textbook example of bigotry?
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I do wish to make a apology and amendment to my earlier statement. While Race and Religion often have a strong tie in, they are not the same. Scott's behaviour does not meet the definition of Racist and I apologize for the comment.

However my calling him a bigot remains true. He has attacked and ridiculed any and all religions. Some religions do indeed have a belief structure that is not acceptable in today's world. But to say they are all not acceptable is no different then calling all blacks thiefs becuase a few have commited a crime.
 
jtheune said:
I do wish to make a apology and amendment to my earlier statement. While Race and Religion often have a strong tie in, they are not the same. Scott's behaviour does not meet the definition of Racist and I apologize for the comment.

However my calling him a bigot remains true. He has attacked and ridiculed any and all religions. Some religions do indeed have a belief structure that is not acceptable in today's world. But to say they are all not acceptable is no different then calling all blacks thiefs becuase a few have commited a crime.
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Do keep in mind that members of some groups might see things somewhat differently than others. I fell into this trap myself in one post, which Adam was kind enough to point out. I come from a group who have been regularly victimized by organized religious bodies, and it does color my viewpoint. However, I can easily understand how others might see things differently, especially if you come from a group that performs wonderfully altruistic acts on a regular basis.
 
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not, that ye be not
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. Or something like that.
 
The final word!

Folks the behavior in this thread by some has become exceptionally disappointing. Everyone needs to take a step back take a deep breath and cool off for a bit. Elizabeth posted this thread out of concern for her brother end of story.

Scott I think your comment about the Relgion and science may have been jumping to a conclusion. I did not take tha pastor's comment to mean that G-d says the only shot you need is a tetnus but rather just an comment from someone who thinks they know what they are talking about when they don't. The commment could have been made by anyone organizing the trip, a pastor, social worker, Hollywood movie star. Michael of course for the most part said this above.

John as you are aware your STFU response was uncalled for and inappropriate for this forum, I respect that you and others are at opposite sides of the spectrum regarding religion and admire your work in Hati but really take a deep breath please and don't lower yourself to such a response. Again as an MC member and POAer thank you for your apology.

POA is a diverse community with different view points and beliefs on everything from politics and religion to shock cooling and ATC's role in a given airspace. No one has to agree with anyone else but everyone must at least respect that someone can have a different point of view. Corrupt and narrow minded clergy who may make outrageous claims don't represent religion as a whole any more that to corrupt Scientists who falsify data represent the scientfic community.

What this mean is that certain posters need to stop making overt and not so overt attempts to get under anothers skin with insinuations and innuendos. Ridicule is not necessary nor is it appreciated at POA. If you feel you are on the receviing end of such behavior you go ahead and vent write up a response if you want but wait an hour befor clicking "Submit Reply" Chances are you won't.

You are all intelligent people this is not the way civil discourse works.

The other half of this of course is that many posters need to grow a thicker skin! Every little remark is not going to dishonor your religion, your political party, your right to bear arms or whether you fly ROP or LOP. Really get a grip! If it ticks you off that much sign off and go earn a living ( which is what I really need to do right now)and log back in when you have forgotten about it.

Its a web board for G-ds sake ,or the flying spagetti monsters sake, just go be even handed, Hopefully something you read here may make you a better pilot or someone you meet here may become a good friend, but other than that its not going to make that big a difference in your life to get all lathered up about.

Thanks for your participation in POA and reading this. Now go Fly Safe, and post something about aviation this is after all an aviation board.
 
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I accept the chastising as just and appropriate. Scott's comment was, to me, the proverbial last straw and I need to get a stronger back if I'm going to hang out here.

I apologize for letting my anger at one individual pollute the pond that we all play in.
 
woodstock said:
You know, I can't quantify the odds. I can't quantify the odds of a car accident either, and just because I have had few fender benders does not mean I am not darn sure to buckle up even if I am only going to the grocery store.

I think it's a noble idea and it will probably be a great experience for him. Now that I know how spendy these meds are, something tells me that the only way he will take them (now that his pastor said not to worry about it) is if I pony up for them. They cost more than an iPad.
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While I can appreciate your concern for your brother, once you have presented your argument and, perhaps, offer to pay for the shots if he does not have much money to spare, what else can you do? I assume your brother is an adult.
 
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I have some haitian friends and our church is active in mission activities. I am still trying to understand the mission-trip concept. Is this more about proselytizing or disaster/development aid ?

Given the expensive logistics (bottled water, flights, immunizations etc.) of bringing a church-group to a disaster zone like Haiti, I suspect that the money would be better spent by supporting a local NGO or by sending an expert in whatever it is they need (civil engineer, pipe-fitter, tropical disease educator, doc/RN/midwife etc.) and to provide him/her with the resources to get something of substance accomplished.
I keep hearing how groups helped to 'build a church' or 'build a clinic' and how it made them feel good, I just can't believe that manual labor is a resource Haiti is in shortage of.
 
weilke said:
I have some haitian friends and our church is active in mission activities. I am still trying to understand the mission-trip concept. Is this more about proselytizing or disaster/development aid ?

Given the expensive logistics (bottled water, flights, immunizations etc.) of bringing a church-group to a disaster zone like Haiti, I suspect that the money would be better spent by supporting a local NGO or by sending an expert in whatever it is they need (civil engineer, pipe-fitter, tropical disease educator, doc/RN/midwife etc.) and to provide him/her with the resources to get something of substance accomplished.
I keep hearing how groups helped to 'build a church' or 'build a clinic' and how it made them feel good, I just can't believe that manual labor is a resource Haiti is in shortage of.
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While other groups may actually go there to do the work, that is not always the case. In my particular group we have been sending money down to hire locals so that they have work as well as getting the school build/run. For the first time we were asked to actually help paint some of the classrooms while we were down there. What we go down there for is to build the relationships between our church and the people in Haiti. We got to know the people on a one to one basis. They got to meet people who cared about them and their future. It's that personal interaction that can be shared with others on both sides that make the trip so important. Could the money spent on our trip been put to better use? perhaps but I think the 10k or so that our group spent getting and staying there was a good investment in building bridges between our two worlds, showing both sides what the other has to offer.
 
AdamZ said:
Its a web board for G-ds sake ,or the flying spagetti monsters sake, just go be even handed, Hopefully something you read here may make you a better pilot or someone you meet here may become a good friend, but other than that its not going to make that big a difference in your life to get all lathered up about.
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Well.. that pretty much says it all. Good post!

Gary
 
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