Missing Logs, New N - Number

Ventucky Red

Ventucky Red

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In talking to a seller I have ascertained the engine and airframe logs are incomplete; as well, there plane was issued a new tail number a few years back...

The new tails number does not pose much concern to me, but the incomplete logs do... What I have been able to uncover so far is the plane was in private ownership and then sold to a leasing company... There are very complete and diligent logs from that time on, it is the earlier time it what is missing... The current owner tells me they were told the plane was bought from an estate "as is" and there were no prior logs... I am thinking the lease company did some due diligence at that time..

My question is, how much of a devaluation would you say this puts on the plane...

Also, I have ordered a report from the FAA and without ever seeing one, how complete are they, that is what do they report on...

Thanks
 
Depends

How far do the logs it does have go back?
 
James331 said:
Depends

How far do the logs it does have go back?
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Thanks James....

The plane is a 1981... so I am figuring there should be something from 1982 or 1983 for the first annual...

The current log's go back to 2006.. From doing an N-Number search, it appears that is when the lease company took ownership... it is the period from 1981/82 to 2006..... 25 years that has me concerned...

From that point forard they are very detailed....
 
25 years is a long time,however the lease company has owned it for nine,with I assume are no problems. Was it leased to a flight school? Study the current logs closely.
 
I wouldn't be too concerned if you have nearly a decade of logs, and a close exam shows everything that needs to be signed off is, does the leasing company or the owner have any other documents?

My plane has some missing logs from when it was imported into Canada, however I have all the conformity and verifications letters for the engine overhaul, STCs etc, so I figured with the full Canadian logs and the US logs when she was imported back to the US, plus the time in the US, it didn't really effect the value.

Is the a common plane like a 172/182/PA28, or something a little less common like a 185, PA18, Stearman, etc?
 
One or the other could be overcome but both of them might be a problem. If I read correctly the logs start about the same time the number was changed? Sounds like a way to try to obscure some kinda history.

Do they know the old number and are they willing to give to you?
 
gitmo234 said:
One or the other could be overcome but both of them might be a problem. If I read correctly the logs start about the same time the number was changed? Sounds like a way to try to obscure some kinda history.

Do they know the old number and are they willing to give to you?
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Yes they did, and when I searched it it showed currently belonging to a 182...

That said, I have seen a few planes where they change the N number.... some have a personal number they want to go with, or the flight school etc... has a sequence they want to follow...

Anyway, I did order an FAA report using the serial number and I am hoping that will show me a chain of ownership from day 1... or does it?
 
You can get copies of the records from OKC that have been filed on the airplane. Pretty sure it is filed by serial number as opposed to N number.

It won't be all inclusive but it should give you a pretty good idea if anything major has been done.

A thorough inspection by someone who is VERY familiar with the type is an absolute MUST if one is seriously considering purchasing this particular airplane.

None of this is a deal buster, but if things start adding up . . .
 
I'd be doing more research on this one -- it sounds flaky. I'm guessing the plane may have been repossessed, and that's never a good sign for the aircraft's material condition at the time of repossession, so you should be looking real hard at the initial annual inspection completed as soon as it was repossessed (without maintenance records, it wasn't legally flyable until the annual was done). You want to see a lot of detail on what was done to verify things like AD compliance and find any significant repairs. You probably also want to be sure the engine was overhauled, because otherwise you have no idea how old the engine's innards are.
 
Just out of curiosity, how do you get an FAA report of a plane?
 
Ron Levy said:
You probably also want to be sure the engine was overhauled, because otherwise you have no idea how old the engine's innards are.
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Part 91, has no age requirement for engines.

This A/C has resent records is all that is important, it is in an airworthy condition at the time of the sale.
 
Tom-D said:
Part 91, has no age requirement for engines.
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Completely irrelevant.
This A/C has resent records is all that is important, it is in an airworthy condition at the time of the sale.
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Legally correct -- assuming the paperwork is all correct and matches the data plates, which I'd be checking very carefully. But that still doesn't assuage my concerns about the aircraft's dubious history.
 
The FAA record search will show anything that was sent in on the aircraft and really not much more. You will get 337's and registration info most likely and sometimes you get lien and loan info as well. Minor maintainence doesn't require a 337 form so you won't likely find anything of that sort.

Frank
 
Ron Levy said:
Completely irrelevant.

Legally correct -- assuming the paperwork is all correct and matches the data plates, which I'd be checking very carefully. But that still doesn't assuage my concerns about the aircraft's dubious history.
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That is the red flag I am having right now..... from what I am being told, the plane was privately owned until 2006, then to the second owner (lease company), then to the owner I am talking to.

On the upside, from what I can see so far, the plane has been at the same airport for a long time...
 
BiffJ said:
The FAA record search will show anything that was sent in on the aircraft and really not much more. You will get 337's and registration info most likely and sometimes you get lien and loan info as well. Minor maintenance doesn't require a 337 form so you won't likely find anything of that sort.

Frank
Click to expand...

I understand anything less than a 337 requirement will not post, but what about accident reports???????
 
Ventucky Red said:
I understand anything less than a 337 requirement will not post, but what about accident reports???????
Click to expand...

Accident reports themselves won't show up, but any substantial damage will if it was documented properly.
 
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