Medical reform is passed out of House

Dear AOPA Member,

Even though PBOR2 has passed the House and Senate, the fight is still not over. The President has to sign it, and then some random person that found a misplaced comma in the legislation will take it to the Supreme Court, so please send in more money now, before it's too late.

Sincerely,

AOPA Legislative Fund.

(yes, this is in jest...) ;)
 
Jeffythequick said:
Dear AOPA Member,

Even though PBOR2 has passed the House and Senate, the fight is still not over. The President has to sign it, and then some random person that found a misplaced comma in the legislation will take it to the Supreme Court, so please send in more money now, before it's too late.

Sincerely,

AOPA Legislative Fund.

(yes, this is in jest...) ;)
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I need a computer monitor cleaning fee after that. :D
 
Well I think GA just got a shot in the Arm...frankly although healthy probably looking to upgrade my Arrow as getting wacked on a medical for something stupid has kept me from spending money on a serious upgrade...looks like it will happen...
 
So the only time anyone will need a third class physical is when they train for a private pilot's license the first time or if they need a SI for cardiac, neurological or mental health conditions. Is there any other time that a pilot would be required to hold a third class?
 
Jeffythequick said:
On AOPA's site, it shows what was originally asked for, and what was gotten, and it looks like the "what was gotten" is equal to (watch the medical video from the FAA site) or better (5 pax vs. 1) than the what was requested. What was compromised?

http://aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2016/july/11/house-passes-medical-reform-in-faa-extension

(I'm referring to the chart at the bottom of the page.)
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The big compromise was to make everyone go through the 3rd class process at least once, and to limit the "lookback" to 10 years. Under the old proposal, anyone with a PPL could fly a covered aircraft (day VFR only, etc.) with only a DL and passing the free online course every 2 years.

I agree, the *privileges* we will get under the new rules that are about to be signed into law (assuming Obama doesn't surprise us) are better than they would have been under the original proposal. But new pilots (or sport pilots), and pilots who haven't held a medical in the last 10 years, will probably not be all that thrilled.
 
azure said:
The big compromise was to make everyone go through the 3rd class process at least once, and to limit the "lookback" to 10 years. Under the old proposal, anyone with a PPL could fly a covered aircraft (day VFR only, etc.) with only a DL and passing the free online course every 2 years.

I agree, the *privileges* we will get under the new rules that are about to be signed into law (assuming Obama doesn't surprise us) are better than they would have been under the original proposal. But new pilots (or sport pilots), and pilots who haven't held a medical in the last 10 years, will probably not be all that thrilled.
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Thank you for the explanation on the compromise. To me, it looks like it was essentially Sport Pilot in a heavier aircraft.
I'm in that boat (just getting my first class 3 with type I diabetes and OSA - should have asked here first, then I could go Sport Pilot, but anyways...). I have also talked with Renton FAA, and it looks like they're in a "wait and see" (at least last Saturday they were), but the two that were there wanted people to have the regional offices take care of the easy SI (OSA), and let OKC deal with the heavy ones (like the T1D).
 
Jeffythequick said:
Thank you for the explanation on the compromise. To me, it looks like it was essentially Sport Pilot in a heavier aircraft.
I'm in that boat (just getting my first class 3 with type I diabetes and OSA - should have asked here first, then I could go Sport Pilot, but anyways...). I have also talked with Renton FAA, and it looks like they're in a "wait and see" (at least last Saturday they were), but the two that were there wanted people to have the regional offices take care of the easy SI (OSA), and let OKC deal with the heavy ones (like the T1D).
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Yes... if you haven't yet gotten a 3rd class then you have to go through the process (one time only) which will involve at least 2 SIs. That would still be the case under the new rules, unfortunately, though it's possible that they might absorb OSA into the CACI list (pure speculation on my part, I don't know, but the trend seems to be in that direction). But for T1D, no question, it's an SI, though one that seems to have gotten more common in recent years. I wish you the best of luck with that!

My situation is different, I'm grounded because under the current (old) rules, I need an FAA decision, after sending them about 200 pages worth of medical documentation. If they say no, or that I need to wait for xxx months before they'll consider me, then according to my AME that's effectively an application and a denial and I'll be locked out of the benefits of the new rules and have to wait until they approve me to fly. Based on the criteria in the new bill, I could fly under the exemption without involving the FAA at all - assuming they don't add the condition I had to the list requiring an SI. So I'm facing a catch-22 a lot like the sport pilot one - I might fly sooner if I don't apply. Then again, they could approve me in 6 months or so. It's really a roll of the dice... :(
 
Wheels said:
So the only time anyone will need a third class physical is when they train for a private pilot's license the first time or if they need a SI for cardiac, neurological or mental health conditions. Is there any other time that a pilot would be required to hold a third class?
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Well, there are some details to be worked out. As I read the bill, the FAA could conceivably still require a medical certificate to take the test for an additional rating, to act as safety pilot, to act as a SIC or other required crew on an aircraft that requires more than one crew member (not that there are likely to be any such aircraft that meet the other requirements of the PBOR2), or to exercise the privileges of a CFI certificate.

And, of course, if a private pilot wants to fly an aircraft with more than 6 seats, more than 6000 pounds, above 18,000 feet, faster than 250 knots, outside the U.S., etc., they will still need at least a third class.

But, it is certainly the intent of the bill that if you are satisfied with flying within its limitations, you never need to get a medical certificate after you get the first one.
 
Neil Rubin said:
But, it is certainly the intent of the bill that if you are satisfied with flying within its limitations, you never need to get a medical certificate after you get the first one.
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Unless a disqualifying or SI required condition occurs, then you need to apply/obtain a onetime SI issuance.
 
So after reading the human-readable explanation, it seems it will create more work for me because I need to run around doctors with checklists, permission slips from National Driver Register, home-study Interweb classes etc. So I am skeptical.

And no, my skepticism does not stem from being "scared of change" as some have joked in the past. This is pure benefit-to-inconvenience ratio. I'd much prefer just going to my regular AME where I don't have to stand in any lines, sit in a waiting room full of screaming sniffling sick kiddos (and adults too) or try to explain what all the forms are. My AME is a cool retired pilot and he loves shooting the breeze about airplanes, flying, pretty much anything that can blast through the skies.

So my question is: if I get a regular 3rd class medical, does ANY of this new paperwork apply or can I completely skip it?
 
So go to your AME, and have him do what you'd do with your GP.
Your AME is a doc, right?
 
BigBadLou said:
So after reading the human-readable explanation, it seems it will create more work for me because I need to run around doctors with checklists, permission slips from National Driver Register, home-study Interweb classes etc. So I am skeptical.

And no, my skepticism does not stem from being "scared of change" as some have joked in the past. This is pure benefit-to-inconvenience ratio. I'd much prefer just going to my regular AME where I don't have to stand in any lines, sit in a waiting room full of screaming sniffling sick kiddos (and adults too) or try to explain what all the forms are. My AME is a cool retired pilot and he loves shooting the breeze about airplanes, flying, pretty much anything that can blast through the skies.

So my question is: if I get a regular 3rd class medical, does ANY of this new paperwork apply or can I completely skip it?
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If you're under 40, maybe. If you're over 40, i'd think jumping the hoops every 4 vs 2 years would be worth any extra hassle.
 
BigBadLou said:
So after reading the human-readable explanation, it seems it will create more work for me because I need to run around doctors with checklists, permission slips from National Driver Register, home-study Interweb classes etc. So I am skeptical.

And no, my skepticism does not stem from being "scared of change" as some have joked in the past. This is pure benefit-to-inconvenience ratio. I'd much prefer just going to my regular AME where I don't have to stand in any lines, sit in a waiting room full of screaming sniffling sick kiddos (and adults too) or try to explain what all the forms are. My AME is a cool retired pilot and he loves shooting the breeze about airplanes, flying, pretty much anything that can blast through the skies.

So my question is: if I get a regular 3rd class medical, does ANY of this new paperwork apply or can I completely skip it?
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Your class 3 medical will still count just like it always did. I can't believe anyone would prefer it but I guess WC Fields was right about some things.
 
Jeffythequick said:
Dear AOPA Member,

Even though PBOR2 has passed the House and Senate, the fight is still not over. The President has to sign it, and then some random person that found a misplaced comma in the legislation will take it to the Supreme Court, so please send in more money now, before it's too late.

Sincerely,

AOPA Legislative Fund.

(yes, this is in jest...) ;)
Click to expand...

Many a thing started as a jest...
 
As long as you don't have any health issues, the Class III isn't a big deal and I'm sure lots of folks will find it as easy/convenient to continue the AME/CLIII route. Once you start having any issues requiring treatment, it can become a bigger hassle and more time consuming for the AME/CLIII route. I just fell into that category last year. Despite being pretty banged up as the glorious results of a misspent youth (aka 22 years in the Army), I had no problems with my CLIII. I've subsequently developed a couple of issues which required an SI. Neither was an issue my GP was concerned with, but the FAA wanted a bunch of paperwork, test and TIME to process it all. Subsequently, my AME can issue...but I still have to see my GP to get a letter, have some test run, forms filled out, etc. It will be easier to just do it all at my GP now. Should I need a Class III again, I'd do it, but I really doubt I'll be flying anything anymore which would exceed the new rules. My warbird days are behind me. At best, I might get in a warbug sometime down the road. ;)
 
BigBadLou said:
So after reading the human-readable explanation, it seems it will create more work for me because I need to run around doctors with checklists, permission slips from National Driver Register, home-study Interweb classes etc. So I am skeptical.

And no, my skepticism does not stem from being "scared of change" as some have joked in the past. This is pure benefit-to-inconvenience ratio. I'd much prefer just going to my regular AME where I don't have to stand in any lines, sit in a waiting room full of screaming sniffling sick kiddos (and adults too) or try to explain what all the forms are. My AME is a cool retired pilot and he loves shooting the breeze about airplanes, flying, pretty much anything that can blast through the skies.

So my question is: if I get a regular 3rd class medical, does ANY of this new paperwork apply or can I completely skip it?
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You can still get a 3rd class medical.. And now you can exercise private privileges in a plane that weighs more 6000 lbs or has more than 6 seats. The medical cert still exists.
 
BigBadLou said:
So after reading the human-readable explanation, it seems it will create more work for me because I need to run around doctors with checklists, permission slips from National Driver Register, home-study Interweb classes etc. So I am skeptical.

And no, my skepticism does not stem from being "scared of change" as some have joked in the past. This is pure benefit-to-inconvenience ratio. I'd much prefer just going to my regular AME where I don't have to stand in any lines, sit in a waiting room full of screaming sniffling sick kiddos (and adults too) or try to explain what all the forms are. My AME is a cool retired pilot and he loves shooting the breeze about airplanes, flying, pretty much anything that can blast through the skies.

So my question is: if I get a regular 3rd class medical, does ANY of this new paperwork apply or can I completely skip it?
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You can still get a 3rd class. For me I get an annual physical anyway. He checks all the same stuff that is on the list so why not have him sign the paper? I have an SI for apnea that requires me to report every year which is an additional 100 bucks or so with the AME to process the paperwork (get the cert right away) or I could send it to the FAA and wait my turn. I am glad that is going away.

On the upside I think pilots (I am guilty of this) will not put off going to the doctor simply because they don't want to hassle with reporting it to the FAA and have a possible issue.

No longer will you have to live in fear of getting a kidney stone and being taken out of the cockpit for who knows how long.

It isn't the drivers license medical I was hoping for but it is still better than what we have.
 
BigBadLou said:
So after reading the human-readable explanation, it seems it will create more work for me because I need to run around doctors with checklists, permission slips from National Driver Register, home-study Interweb classes etc. So I am skeptical.

And no, my skepticism does not stem from being "scared of change" as some have joked in the past. This is pure benefit-to-inconvenience ratio. I'd much prefer just going to my regular AME where I don't have to stand in any lines, sit in a waiting room full of screaming sniffling sick kiddos (and adults too) or try to explain what all the forms are. My AME is a cool retired pilot and he loves shooting the breeze about airplanes, flying, pretty much anything that can blast through the skies.

So my question is: if I get a regular 3rd class medical, does ANY of this new paperwork apply or can I completely skip it?
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Respectfully, on your concerns:
  1. Need to run around to doctors: You only need to go to one doctor every 4 years and have the checklist.
    Section 2307.A.(7) the individual has received a comprehensive medical examination from a State-licensed physician during the previous 48 months. I think you have a good idea to go to the AME. My condition is different; I have to go to a doctor every 3 months, so I probably didn't get the inconvenience of going every 4 years.
    The checklist is in Section 2307.c I think that enterprising folks will have an easy to print form that you can bring to your doctor. Plus, you keep it in your logbook, not sent in to the FAA.
  2. Permission slips from Nation Driver Registry (NDR): You sign a release authorizing the FAA to look in there to see if your license has been revoked (my interpretation) for medical reasons. You don't have to contact the NDR.
    2307.C.10.(B) subject to subsection (d), a release authorizing the National Driver Register through a designated State Department of Motor Vehicles to furnish to the Federal Aviation Administration information pertaining to the individual's driving record;
  3. Interweb course: I understand - I'm a "class learner", but this is what we have. The text is in 2307.b
The engrossed bill can be found here. Section 2307 is the PBOR2:
https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th...36/text#toc-H04F79505CBE84ADABBEB9BA55380AF26

I hope this helps answer your concerns. I, for one, am excited about its passage.

I do not represent the government, except for my bi-weekly contributions to keep it less in debt.
 
If I understand this bill correctly, it really came at the right time for me. I am under 40 and I applied for my original Class 3 five years ago. I have a retina disorder called Lattice Degeneration and I knew I would need to go to my ophthalmologist and have him fill out the FAA Report of Eye Exam form and give it to the AME. I did, he deferred my medical, and three weeks later I was issued my Class 3 with no Special Issuance.

Two months ago I went to an AME to renew my Class 3 and gave him a recent FAA eye exam form. Once again it was deferred which I expected. Today, two months later, I found out that they issued my medical but with Special Issuance "Not Valid after 5/31/17". I already go to an ophthalmologist and retina specialist every year, and will continue to do so, but this means I would also need to go back to the AME in a year. I'm sure I would also need a new FAA eye exam form which involves about two hours’ worth of eye tests, most of which my ophthalmologist says are completely unnecessary.

It appears that I can now continue to fly until the end of next May on my current medical, go to my regular doctor and get the form filled out, take the online class, and be good to go. If for some reason the FAA hasn't enacted the new rules by then I can just wait another six weeks until they're blocked from enforcing the old rules. Sounds pretty good to me.
 
I'm just curious what everyone is going to put in their for sale ads since they can't use "lost medical" anymore.... Well I suppose they still could but the odds are way less.

Said goodbye to the LSA market too. Not such a bad thing as most of the designs can handle higher gross weights than they are listed for and can go faster with more power or different power charts.

Don't be fooled though, GA hasn't been saved. The inevitable has been prolonged.
 
Grum.Man said:
Don't be fooled though, GA hasn't been saved. The inevitable has been prolonged.
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Not even that. I doubt many have been dissuaded from entering the aviation community due to the medical nonsense. Might keep some from leaving prematurely.
 
Is the 6000 lbs the aircraft's max gross weight or actual flying weight?
 
This really is a good day for GA. I'm very thankful for all the work that got us to this point. I'm thinking the new bill makes so much sense and will be a good shot in the arm for GA!
 
jspilot said:
This really is a good day for GA. I'm very thankful for all the work that got us to this point. I'm thinking the new bill makes so much sense and will be a good shot in the arm for GA!
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I agree, best legislative shot in the arm for GA since I learned to fly in 2002. We shouldn't forget, though, that there are still some pilots it doesn't help. It probably won't help to bring in new blood. Its main value is that it will keep many older pilots from hanging up their wings prematurely or going light sport.

Now Obama just has to sign it... though it's almost certain he will, I'm not going to uncross my fingers until he actually does.
 
Grum.Man said:
...Said goodbye to the LSA market too. Not such a bad thing as most of the designs can handle higher gross weights than they are listed for and can go faster with more power or different power charts...
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This doesn't change any of the LSA rules. If you want to produce an aircraft under LSA then the same constraints apply. This may significantly reduce the number of people interested in buying an LSA but an aircraft certified as LSA cannot be modified to go faster or carry more weight without going to part 23 certification.
 
Silvaire said:
This doesn't change any of the LSA rules. If you want to produce an aircraft under LSA then the same constraints apply. This may significantly reduce the number of people interested in buying an LSA but an aircraft certified as LSA cannot be modified to go faster or carry more weight without going to part 23 certification.
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That was the whole point of my post. There is now a very small market for people who need an LSA. I would guess 90% of the people buying those airplanes did so because of Medical issues. The rest are people with Sport Pilots license.
 
Grum.Man said:
That was the whole point of my post. There is now a very small market for people who need an LSA. I would guess 90% of the people buying those airplanes did so because of Medical issues. The rest are people with Sport Pilots license.
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Yea I understand, I was just adding that the people making LSA's can't get out of the box they're in. Icon, for instance, can't bolt an O-320 on and up the GW to 1800 lbs even if the airframe could handle it unless they go through the whole part 23 certification process after which they'd probably need to charge half a million a copy.
 
MassPilot said:
Two months ago I went to an AME to renew my Class 3 and gave him a recent FAA eye exam form. Once again it was deferred which I expected. Today, two months later, I found out that they issued my medical but with Special Issuance "Not Valid after 5/31/17". I already go to an ophthalmologist and retina specialist every year, and will continue to do so, but this means I would also need to go back to the AME in a year.
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I have an SI due to thyroid cancer. I don't have to see an AME every year. My Endocrinologist has to prepare a report of my current condition, my medications, and my prognosis. They mail it direct to OKC and normally in 3-4 weeks I get a new SI in the mail. No AME needed.

Now I will be glad to not have to deal with that every year. Last year I had to change doctors. They didn't prepare the report to OKC correctly, and I was without a valid medical for 3 months while it was straightened out.
 
Silvaire said:
Yea I understand, I was just adding that the people making LSA's can't get out of the box they're in. Icon, for instance, can't bolt an O-320 on and up the GW to 1800 lbs even if the airframe could handle it unless they go through the whole part 23 certification process after which they'd probably need to charge half a million a copy.
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They already do ;)
 
Well they're only a quarter mil now but I get your point. For guys like us what's the difference between a quarter million and half a million, not gonna happen either way :confused:
 
It is now a done deal. President signed it into law.

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This space intentionally left blank for future sarcasm.
 
Hot diggety dawg! :)

Of course, once they issue the proposed new regs, the hard work really starts...
 
This medical reform legislation is a good start, but I hope AOPA does not say that their work is done. This is only the beginning and I hope that some years down the road AOPA would be pushing for a drivers license medical standard like what was written in the original PBOR2/GAPPA.
 
It is now a done deal. President signed it into law.
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Guys - make no mistake here. The FAA is now under the gun to make the next move, and they know the clock is ticking.

They will be absolutely *LIVID* over this affront to their authority, and are certain to fire back at GA.

This is just the first salvo. We won this round, but the battle is far from over.

- Patrick
 
patrickw said:
Guys - make no mistake here. The FAA is now under the gun to make the next move, and they know the clock is ticking.

They will be absolutely *LIVID* over this affront to their authority, and are certain to fire back at GA.

This is just the first salvo. We won this round, but the battle is far from over.

- Patrick
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I don't think so. This is very similar to the FAA's own proposal which was held up at DOT.
 
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