Medical 10 year driving record

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Johnebolt

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Johnebolt
hello all I have started and have around 25 hours so far. My question is I live in Tennessee and the FAA wants me to send 10 years of driving record history, I have went to my local DMV and all they had or could give me was 7 years. They said I would have to call Nashville if I wanted more than 7 years, so I called, they said the only way I could get 10 years was with a court order. I called FAA medical and they said no problem just get something from DMV saying that Tennessee only goes 7 years. I called Nashville DMV back (another hour wait) and asked for a letter or something that said they only give out 7 years and they said they do not have anyway or anything that proves Tennessee only gives 7 years. They said I should go get a court order. Just for the record I had a DUI 25 years ago and nothing else my driving record is spotless except for DUI.

Thanks
 
They should have a form for a FOIA request, just fill that out and send it in and they should mail the 10 year history
 
Send the seven years and a note explaining the situation, see what happens. In the mean time while waiting for the response see if you can get the last 3 years. Just get the 7 in since you have it and see if it gets the ball rolling. I give you better odds than even that they'll take the seven years with the note. If they really want the info, they can get every last detail a lot easier than you can.
 
Your AME might be able to make a phone call to explain the 7 year history. I'm sure they would be happy with that.
 
On the form to request the 7-year record, it probably explains in the instructions that you are limited to 7 years of records. If you get the real form from the DMV and circle or highlight that section and mail it in with your 7-year record, I don't see why the FAA would have a problem with that.

I wonder why they requested that record, was it because you disclosed a DUI violation in the past? They did not ask me for my driving record. Just curious, nothing more.
 
This is why some people lie on the medical. So they don't have to go through this bull....
 
momalley said:
They should have a form for a FOIA request, just fill that out and send it in and they should mail the 10 year history
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IIRC, the FOIA only applies to the Federal government. And even if there is an equivalent state law in TN, it wouldn't do any good if they don't have records going back further than seven years -- you can't compel production of something they don't have.

My advice to the OP is to contact Dr. Bruce Chien for advice before you send anything more to the FAA -- he's the expert on difficult medical certification questions. You can reach him either on the AOPA Forums or via his web site. What you do not want to do is send them something they will not find acceptable, and Bruce is the one who can tell you what will be acceptable.
 
Ron Levy said:
IIRC, the FOIA only applies to the Federal government. And even if there is an equivalent state law in TN, it wouldn't do any good if they don't have records going back further than seven years -- you can't compel production of something they don't have.
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But if the state has a FOIA, then it would be worth it to send one in, requesting the 10 years.
Sure, they'll say no, but they'll have to say no in a letter that you can then send to the FAA along with the 7 years you've got.
 
Ron Levy said:
IIRC, the FOIA only applies to the Federal government. And even if there is an equivalent state law in TN, it wouldn't do any good if they don't have records going back further than seven years -- you can't compel production of something they don't have.
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He said a court order is required for more than seven years. To me, that indicates they have it and the ability to produce it.
 
N3368K said:
He said a court order is required for more than seven years. To me, that indicates they have it and the ability to produce it.
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My experience is that the FAA can be reasonable about things like this if you can show that it's not possible to obtain the earliest three years' records, say, by including with the seven years' data in your response the state letter saying seven years is all you can get. However, you are probably best off by pre-greasing the skids on something like that. My advice is to discuss this with the Regional Flight Surgeon -- your FSDO can provide the contact information.
 
Another option might be to talk to a judge and get a court order.

Around here, at least, the local two-bit judges are elected, and they tend to be pretty helpful when they're asked to work their judge magic. If I were in OP's position, I'd find out what the court order needs to say, print it up, show up at traffic court, and ask the judge to sign and seal it. I'm almost certain I'd walk out with the signed papers in hand.

Then again, many (maybe most) of the local judges around here aren't lawyers by training, so they don't suffer from the disadvantage of having spent four years in law school learning how to complicate the simple. A more-educated judge might find all kinds of reasons not to sign off on something like this.

-Rich
 
RJM62 said:
Another option might be to talk to a judge and get a court order.

Around here, at least, the local two-bit judges are elected, and they tend to be pretty helpful when they're asked to work their judge magic. If I were in OP's position, I'd find out what the court order needs to say, print it up, show up at traffic court, and ask the judge to sign and seal it. I'm almost certain I'd walk out with the signed papers in hand.

Then again, many (maybe most) of the local judges around here aren't lawyers by training, so they don't suffer from the disadvantage of having spent four years in law school learning how to complicate the simple. A more-educated judge might find all kinds of reasons not to sign off on something like this.

-Rich
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I'm not a lawyer, but I'd ask "What gives this court jurisdiction to order this?"
 
Jimmy cooper said:
Send in the 7 years record and explain that's all that you are by law able to obtain. Press on!
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The way the FAA works, that's not a good idea without discussing it with them first. When they tell you to provide something and you don't provide exactly what they wanted, that results usually in more correspondence rather than approval. If you clear it in advance, things go more smoothly.
 
JeffDG said:
I'm not a lawyer, but I'd ask "What gives this court jurisdiction to order this?"
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The municipal justices routinely hear traffic cases, so they have some sort of DMV authority. They can also revoke your license, hear non-felony criminal cases, and toss your posterior in jail for up to a year; so at least here, they do have a bit of judicial oomph.

In addition, I can't imagine a DMV employee exerting too much effort trying to decide whether a court order is valid, especially for something as silly as a driving abstract. If a judge signed off on it, I can't imagine it not being honored by DMV.

-Rich
 
RJM62 said:
The municipal justices routinely hear traffic cases, so they have some sort of DMV authority. They can also revoke your license, hear non-felony criminal cases, and toss your posterior in jail for up to a year; so at least here, they do have a bit of judicial oomph.

In addition, I can't imagine a DMV employee exerting too much effort trying to decide whether a court order is valid, especially for something as silly as a driving abstract. If a judge signed off on it, I can't imagine it not being honored by DMV.

-Rich
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Regardless...some action must be brought before a judge before he can issue an order. What action is brought to seek this order? Who are the parties? What notice is due to the other parties?

Judges can't just issue orders for the hell of it.
 
JeffDG said:
Regardless...some action must be brought before a judge before he can issue an order. What action is brought to seek this order? Who are the parties? What notice is due to the other parties?

Judges can't just issue orders for the hell of it.
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Actually, judges can issue whatever orders they like. Whether they're kosher or not is another question. I've heard tell of some doozies being handed down in local courts. Some people even go to the court in a neighboring town as spectators just for the sheer entertainment value.

But kosher or not, unless someone challenges it, an order is an order; and I don't think the chances of some yawning bureaucrat at DMV challenging a judge's order over something as mundane as a driving record are very high.

As for what the order would say, I really don't know. I'm not a lawyer, either. But I suppose if I wanted to take the DIY approach, I'd do some research for the proper format, prepare a petition requesting the records, describe my reason for needing the records, and demonstrating why it was lawful for me to have them. I'd also prepare an order for Hizzonor's signature something along the lines of:
"This court has reviewed the petition by John Q. Pilot for a transcript of his driving record for the past 10 years. Upon due consideration, the court finds that the petitioner has a bona-fide, lawful need for the requested records. Furthermore, the court finds that there exists no legal reason why the petitioner should not be provided said records, and that it is in the interest of justice for petitioner's request to be granted.

Therefore, it is hereby ORDERED that the Department of Motor Vehicles shall cause to be provided to the petitioner, John Q. Pilot, a certified copy of his driving record for the ten years prior to the date of this order."
​
Either that, or I'd ask one of the lawyers lurking around the traffic court how much he or she would charge me to prepare something more lawyerly.

But hey, that's just me. I find local government types easier to deal with than federal government types. So before literally making a federal case out of a state driving record, I'd look into local options. The worse that could happen would be that the judge says no, which would leave me no worse off than I was before.

-Rich
 
Ron Levy said:
IIRC, the FOIA only applies to the Federal government. And even if there is an equivalent state law in TN, it wouldn't do any good if they don't have records going back further than seven years -- you can't compel production of something they don't have.

My advice to the OP is to contact Dr. Bruce Chien for advice before you send anything more to the FAA -- he's the expert on difficult medical certification questions. You can reach him either on the AOPA Forums or via his web site. What you do not want to do is send them something they will not find acceptable, and Bruce is the one who can tell you what will be acceptable.
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They HAVE the record. They require a court order to show beyond 7 years.

Get your personal attorney to subpoena them.

Dave
 
Good to know they feel it necessary to require all this for admitting a DUI 25 years ago. Hopefully they'll get your criminal record as a toddler too so we can get rid of the real and legitimate risks.

If I had a dollar for everytime someone with a clean record except for an offense over two and a half decades ago has burned me, I'd be rich!
 
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