Maybe the neatest ADS-B yet! SkyBeacon - near zero install

CT4ME

CT4ME

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CT4ME
SkyBeacon, from uAvionix.
Side-side-800x344.png
 
Definitely elegant.
 
'Gotta believe this will be the talk of OSHKOSH...

"SkyBeacon is pending certification via approved model list (AML) for STC’d installation on hundreds of aircraft makes and models."
 
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Anyone want to guess on price?
 
Badger said:
Anyone want to guess on price?
Click to expand...
If you have to ask....Does it include the position lights or does it integrate with the existing lights? What if the position lights are the strobe version with the 2 bulbs?
 
Questions...1) looks like it integrates the position lights, and it's necessary to remove the existing wing tip lights. So - will there be a split switch - ADSB ON all the time, position lights only when you want or both on all the time?
2) What if you've got r/g position lights integrated with strobes? If this replaces the wing tip lights, this means no more strobe lights.
3) Price - if you have to ask....
 
Badger said:
$995 is my guess
Click to expand...

Just 100 bucks more than a Stratus though. Less install unless they have some ingenious low/no cost way of doing it just like mounting a GoPro on the wing or something.
 
BrianNC said:
Just 100 bucks more than a Stratus though. Less install unless they have some ingenious low/no cost way of doing it just like mounting a GoPro on the wing or something. Although it doesn't look portable so you could use it on any plane you rent.
Click to expand...
 
... But this is OUT... Stratus out ESG is $2995 + install
 
Waiting for some of this really cool stuff to be legal for certified aircraft. Fingers crossed.
 
CT4ME said:
... But this is OUT... Stratus out ESG is $2995 + install
Click to expand...
But the Stratus ES integrates a transponder, same as the Garmin 335. This is OUT only and obviously needs to piggy back or something with the existing transponder, much like the new GDL82 UAT (retail $1795)
 
It just needs to "sniff" out the information from the transponder, a physical connection to the transponder is not required.

There are similar devices that are able to read the transponder output and use that data ti transmit their own ADS-B out message.
 
murphey said:
Questions...1) looks like it integrates the position lights, and it's necessary to remove the existing wing tip lights. So - will there be a split switch - ADSB ON all the time, position lights only when you want or both on all the time?
Click to expand...

I imagine you could do split switches, but that would defeat the purpose of low time install without running wires.

I believe the intent is to hook in right into the existing strobe wire at the wingtip. Both on or both off, and no wires or switches needed.
 
The pilot is not supposed to be able to turn the ADS-B system on and off. It is supposed to be on ALL the time, from engine start to shut down.

Once installed it must be on and transmitting or the aircraft is grounded ( with a few exceptions). Doesn't matter what type of airspace you intend to fly in. Once it's there it has to work. More restrictive than the transponder and the ELT.
 
James331 said:
Nope
:(
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Wrong again. Direct quote from the Appaero website:

Stratus ESG:
> TSO’d 1090 ES Transponder
> Built-in WAAS GPS (antenna included)
> Portable ConnectTM
> $2,995
 
TigerGene said:
The pilot is not supposed to be able to turn the ADS-B system on and off. It is supposed to be on ALL the time, from engine start to shut down.

Once installed it must be on and transmitting or the aircraft is grounded ( with a few exceptions). Doesn't matter what type of airspace you intend to fly in. Once it's there it has to work. More restrictive than the transponder and the ELT.
Click to expand...
ADS B
91.225 (f) Each person operating an aircraft equipped with ADS-B Out must operate this equipment in the transmit mode at all times.
Transponder
91.215 (c) Transponder-on operation. While in the airspace as specified in paragraph (b) of this section or in all controlled airspace, each person operating an aircraft equipped with an operable ATC transponder maintained in accordance with §91.413 of this part shall operate the transponder, including Mode C equipment if installed, and shall reply on the appropriate code or as assigned by ATC.

As I read it:
The rules allow you to turn your transponder off in class G or on the ground, but not ADS-B. Most of the rest of the wording appears to be close to identical. Am I missing anything else?
 
Capt. Thorpe:

I'm not sure we have a bone of contention here. My point is that the ADS-B out system once installed, is a required piece of equipment and may never be turned off as long as the aircraft is moving. If it fails the aircraft is grounded, with a few exceptions.

Therefore installing the device with a switch which allows the pilot to turn it off at will would be problematic. It's interesting to consider that if your ADS-B out installation includes a transponder "sniffer", how will turning off your transponder affect the ADS-B out system?
 
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Capt. Thorpe:

I edited my post. Right after hitting "save" I realized that you mentioned the ADS-B ON requirement.

My mistake.

We are in agreement. Someone posted earlier that the Skybeacon system may be powered through the nav light system. I'm not sure this would be allowed by the FAA as the system needs to be on at all times.
 
TigerGene said:
Capt. Thorpe:

I edited my post. Right after hitting "save" I realized that you mentioned the ADS-B ON requirement.

My mistake.

We are in agreement. Someone posted earlier that the Skybeacon system may be powered through the nav light system. I'm not sure this would be allowed by the FAA as the system needs to be on at all times.
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I'm the one who brought this up, and I did not say it may be powered thru the nav light system. My question is if this is replacing the nav lights, does this mean a split switch so that the nav lights can be turned off when not needed? Or will the nav lights be on all the time? I never said turn off the ADS-B.

1) there are places where ADS-B is not required and 2) there are places where transponders are specifically turned off. So if the transponder is off, so is ADS-B when integrated with the transponder, right?

Trivia question for the game,set & match...where is #2 true?
 
There are no places where ADS-B is not required once you install it in your plane. Once installed it is required to be on and transmitting whenever the aircraft is in motion.

The ADS-B system is both a part of the transponder system yet separate from it. The ADS-B system trnsmits it's own data separate from the transponder, but uses some of the data the transponder sends out.

I'm not sure what happens with ADS-B when you switch off your transponder. It's possible that when the 2 systems are integrated you are not actually turning the transponder off when the switch is off. With a "sniffer" there is less integration. I'm not sure how that works either.

Maybe you get an ADS-B fault light on the panel when the transponder is off.
 
TigerGene said:
There are no places where ADS-B is not required once you install it in your plane. Once installed it is required to be on and transmitting whenever the aircraft is in motion.

The ADS-B system is both a part of the transponder system yet separate from it. The ADS-B system trnsmits it's own data separate from the transponder, but uses some of the data the transponder sends out.

I'm not sure what happens with ADS-B when you switch off your transponder. It's possible that when the 2 systems are integrated you are not actually turning the transponder off when the switch is off. With a "sniffer" there is less integration. I'm not sure how that works either.

Maybe you get an ADS-B fault light on the panel when the transponder is off.
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Once again wrong.....On the Garmin 335/345, the OFF button turns everything off because it turns off the power. ADS-B cannot operate without power. How can there be an ADS-B fault light when the entire unit is turned off, hence no visible display?

Now, go back and read my posting - either posting - and answer the trivia question. [snotty comment follows - stop trying to teach your elders - end snotty comment]
 
TigerGene said:
There are no places where ADS-B is not required once you install it in your plane. Once installed it is required to be on and transmitting whenever the aircraft is in motion.

The ADS-B system is both a part of the transponder system yet separate from it. The ADS-B system trnsmits it's own data separate from the transponder, but uses some of the data the transponder sends out.

I'm not sure what happens with ADS-B when you switch off your transponder. It's possible that when the 2 systems are integrated you are not actually turning the transponder off when the switch is off. With a "sniffer" there is less integration. I'm not sure how that works either.

Maybe you get an ADS-B fault light on the panel when the transponder is off.
Click to expand...
Once again wrong. But I'll allow you to cite the regulation. On the Garmin 335/345, the OFF button shuts all power to the unit. All parts of the unit. ADS-B requires power to transmit. The GPS is integrated into the unit. No power, No GPS. How can there be an ADS-B fault indicator when then entire unit is powered off?

[snarky comment - Stop trying to teach your elders - end snarky comment]

Go back and read my posting - either posting. All I asked was about the nav lights. Not ADS-B. Not transponder.

Anyone have the answer to the trivia question yet?
 
No need for Snarkiness.

ADS-B is a convoluted and overly complex mess. Little wonder there is so much misinformation on the internet.

I have been studying the regs, studying the associated Advisory Circulars and researching and posting online for 2 years now. My co-worker has had direct talks with the FAA. Many questions remain unanswered.

As to your question concerning the nav lights, I guess we'll have to wait till the product is released or info is released at Oshkosh.
 
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TigerGene said:
Capt. Thorpe:

I edited my post. Right after hitting "save" I realized that you mentioned the ADS-B ON requirement.

My mistake.

We are in agreement. Someone posted earlier that the Skybeacon system may be powered through the nav light system. I'm not sure this would be allowed by the FAA as the system needs to be on at all times.
Click to expand...

Uavionix is basically saying the Skybeacon is powered through the Nav light system.

Not sure how to read their quote below any other way.

https://www.uavionix.com/news/uavio...e-first-near-zero-install-ads-b-out-solution/

"With this solution, installation of ADS-B is as simple as changing a lightbulb...

“After a review of multiple aircraft we realized the position lights offered an ideal installation location,” ... The mounting location along with readily available power help provide an install that is simple, and near zero effort. ... It is affordable, easy to configure, and mounts in minutes"
 
murphey said:
2) there are places where transponders are specifically turned off. So if the transponder is off, so is ADS-B when integrated with the transponder, right?

Trivia question for the game,set & match...where is #2 true?
Click to expand...
When?
When it's been more than 24 months since you had a visit from the magic pixie guy.
When requested by ATC.
Where?
Used to be you turned them off on the ground, but not no more - at least if you follow the FAA recommendations.
Where it is specified by a NOTAM such as the Oshkosh arrival procedure.
Can't think of a second place off the top of my head.

And, if you have an "all in one" ADS-B/ transponder then it seems likely that the ADS-B be off when you flip the transponder off.
OTOH, if you have a stand aloneish ADS-B out unit that listens to the transponder to get the squawk code and altitude information, I have no idea what it would do when the transponder is off. And, I'm not sure that I really care. That's an ATC problem.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
When?
When it's been more than 24 months since you had a visit from the magic pixie guy.
When requested by ATC.
Where?
Used to be you turned them off on the ground, but not no more - at least if you follow the FAA recommendations.
Where it is specified by a NOTAM such as the Oshkosh arrival procedure.
Can't think of a second place off the top of my head.

And, if you have an "all in one" ADS-B/ transponder then it seems likely that the ADS-B be off when you flip the transponder off.
OTOH, if you have a stand aloneish ADS-B out unit that listens to the transponder to get the squawk code and altitude information, I have no idea what it would do when the transponder is off. And, I'm not sure that I really care. That's an ATC problem.
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And we have a winnah! I was thinking only of Oshkosh, but any ATC instruction to turn it off is another one.
 
Usually not requested by ATC, but a formation flight will typically only have the lead aircraft squawking also.

And I already watched some video of the Bonanzas to OSH folks were practicing and the stupid traffic warning was going off for the guy's wingman. Boy that'd be incredibly annoying if traffic alerts are based on the ADS-B even with the transponder off, if you regularly fly formation. I would think a certain breaker just might get pulled.
 
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