Mastering the Cessna 182 ?

I have seen a "Bird Dog" locally, never would have thought it had a 470.
Never realized Cessna was into spray planes...seems like a good match for a 470 back when!
Thanks!!!
 
mondtster said:
Off the top of my head I can think of at least three other Cessna single engine airframes that were factory equipped with o-470s. The 182 is just the most common.
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mondtster said:
Cessna 180, 188, and L-19. There might be others as well, and I can think of at least one Cessna twin.
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Right. None of those are very common. I didn't even remember the 188. 180 is pretty low numbers. Bird Dog is a lot of fun. Essentially a Cessna 170 with 230 horsepower. Wheeee.

I bet Busch's article is wrong for those "Cessna singles" too, if you get out their POHs. I'm not home at the moment so I can't dig. But he tends toward talking about the IO variants in that article for sure.
 
Sinistar said:
I've still learning in our 182P (closing in on 60hrs, about 16 of which are solo).

- Don't forget to lean when taxiing around, it burns a lot of gas there too!
- My wife will pick something around 1700 or 1800 rpm late on downwind (prop full), add 10 flaps on each turn and land nicely with 30deg of flaps
- My instructor is teaching me a more gradual pattern coming in from cruise, first notch of flaps, 20" (prop still out from cruise), carb heat. As I turn base I go to 15"MP, prop in, flaps 20. On final power back to 1700rpm or so and flaps 40 which works really good for me.
- Finding 30deg of flaps is impossible for me! (But my wife finds it every time??)
- We bring a small battery operated hand fan for the passenger (the 182P does not have a passenger window that can open)
- Carb ice will happen if the conditions are right. Keep an eye on the MP and if you see it dropping in cruise...resist the urge to push in the throttle a bit...check for ice first. It will gurgle and chomp ice and then get its mojo back in just a few seconds!
- That add-on carb ice warning gauge...will just make you nervous all the time
- When on final I use quite a bit of elevator trim as the nose gets really, really heavy.
- Soft field takeoffs will pitch the nose way, way up!!!
- We now have the "belt on the floor" option for the pilot seat...in a emergency it would be much easier to get out of than that crappy little finger release.
- It will probably always burn fuel unevenly so there is a reason to use the fuel selector during cruise.
- The rudder trim is awesome during cruise, don't forget to use it.
- If it has bladders, be leary of flying it after sitting out in the rain if it doesn't have the updated fuel caps.
- If you need to get the front tire off the ground I believe you need over 100lbs on the tail. I have 3x60lb sand tubs in the hangar and I know I need at least 2 of them, can't remember if I needed the third.
- I believe the nose wheel can only turn 30degress so try to not overdo it if using a powered tug.
- They are really heavy so if you have to move one on your own you'll know
- On the 182P there is no built step to get up and see/add fuel so we always have a small ladder.
- Some people hand push/pull the plane using hands on the prop right where it meets the spinner.
- You'll go crazy trying to stick these bladder fuel tanks and be "precise".
- Taking off with the window open isn't so bad but there is so much wind flow that your intercom will break squelch and it will be so loud you may not hear ATC unless you turn up the radio.
- If trimmed for power off, best glide and then apply full power you will really, really have to push hard on the yoke until you get it trimmed again.
- Our seems to idle quite nicely (ie smooth) at 800rpm and leaned somewhat. It will idle all the way to throttle pulled out full, but just seems to idle the best around 800rpm
- I believe most people are cold starting with 2 shots of primer. I am having great luck now at 3 shots but don't always get it to start on first try with 2.
- When I rotate for takeoff and just after starting the climb I swear I hear the stall horn but the CFI said that is not it, it is some other wind noise?
- Ours loves a little over 9qts. If I add more it will just breathe off.
- We are seeing about 12.2gph at 22 squared...when leaned aggressively. I flight plan for 13gph.
- The heater and defroster work really good! But I would advise a decent CO monitor as I can see the levels in the cockpit up quite a bit during warmup and runup. So why take chances.
- You may want to bring a pillow for any shorter passengers to sit on when up front.
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Nice review of your experience. I started a 182P 2 years ago, 65 hours now. Mirrors mine time in the plane. (Flew 172M the last 20 years)
I reduce power to 2450/2300mp for climb as soon as practical. Now having a plane with rudder trim, do you find you need it most flights or just when cruising with a stiff crosswind?
 
Mark Ebben said:
Nice review of your experience. I started a 182P 2 years ago, 65 hours now. Mirrors mine time in the plane. (Flew 172M the last 20 years)
I reduce power to 2450/2300mp for climb as soon as practical. Now having a plane with rudder trim, do you find you need it most flights or just when cruising with a stiff crosswind?
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I use it when I have a crosswind in cruise on XCs. I gain a little speed.
 
denverpilot said:
Why would one need rudder into a crosswind aloft? No need to slip at all.
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I'm still the wannabe student pilot however I was just about to write the same thing myself.

In a crosswind the 182 should be the same as other planes, crabbing for wind correction. I do use the rudder trim during cruise to center the ball. I don't use it at all during pattern work. I seem to recall usually have it set about 20%...40% to the right most of the time, a nice offset to left turning tendency during takeoff and seems to be okay for landing too. I think I'm a little too green yet to offer sage advice on rudder trim, except it is there and as I get better I know I will use it more and more because I know it's there to help me out vs. that fuel guzzlin' torquey beast up front.
 
ktup-flyer said:
I use it when I have a crosswind in cruise on XCs. I gain a little speed.
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d0374478557798edfc964afd006512de457207f70346d8e2ef524a98afd73578.jpg
 
N65995, a 2005 C182T Nav III is the first plane I have ever owned. Bought it February 14 this year as a Valentine present to myself. 182s are great planes!

See n65995.blogspot.com for a little about my ride.
 
Craig R said:
N65995, a 2005 C182T Nav III is the first plane I have ever owned. Bought it February 14 this year as a Valentine present to myself. 182s are great planes!

See n65995.blogspot.com for a little about my ride.
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Looks like you’re having fun. Not looking forward to those Garmin data update bills in one of your posts, once we have our G650 installed, but they have a captive audience I guess.
 
I bought the whole shebang, Garmin data this year. Next year I will only update the plane when the data fails completely. I understand there is some period beyond expiration where the old data can still be used. I will my EFB as primary, which is completely free! FltPlan Go, I love it.
 
Denverpilot-

Thanks, I'm starting my 10 hrs of dual tomorrow- insurance requirement. I've got a K model owners handbook and plan to also get instrument current during the 10 hrs. It will be good to get familiar and more comfortable with it before taking the family on any trips.
 
Cricket1 said:
Denverpilot-

Thanks, I'm starting my 10 hrs of dual tomorrow- insurance requirement. I've got a K model owners handbook and plan to also get instrument current during the 10 hrs. It will be good to get familiar and more comfortable with it before taking the family on any trips.
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I had around 200 hrs (0 in Cessnas of any make) or so when I got my 182 and my insurance required only 5 hrs dual. I felt comfortable enough after the 5 hrs to take it on a 300nm IFR both way trip. I'm not saying that to brag, just to say that they are pretty simple platforms and I find they are pretty easy to fly once you get used to a few "quirks." In addition to getting IFR current, make sure your instructor does some short field/soft field work with you if you haven't done a ton before. Coming from flying Cherokees, I wasn't used to going into grass strips and real short fields, but that is one of the cool things about a 182, they can get in and out of almost anywhere (even more so when you are underweight). Also don't be afraid to land slooooow. I typically come over the fence at 63-65 kts w/ full flaps unless I have large wind gusts to deal with which felt really slow when I first starting flying 182s.

Enjoy the transition, they are really fun, capable planes- and let us know if there are any questions. Specifically lookout for @denverpilot's posts. His sometimes long-winded (hehe :) but always helpful tips were awesome reading when I first started my training in it- he is my go to for all 182 questions.
 
neilw2 said:
I had around 200 hrs (0 in Cessnas of any make) or so when I got my 182 and my insurance required only 5 hrs dual.
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Our insurance requires 10 hours in type. I had like 7 when I bought into the co-ownership, so it was simpler to rent for three hours than to bump the insurance, figure out my "share" of the increase, and then bump it back down. That was quite a while ago, since I'm over 300 hours in that airframe now.

Ironically the C-182 at the club went down for extended maintenance right when that happened, so we asked the insurance company if R-182 time counted. It did... so my CFI and I went out and played gear-up/gear-down for three hours.
 
Thanks for the responses. I've got about 400 hrs total, with about 45 in a 172RG, and 10 in a Cherokee Six but zero 182 time. Actually about 1.5 hrs between 2 flights during my investigation of the plane before buying into the partnership.

I did my private in a 150, then instrument in an Archer, then Comml and CFI in the RG. Took about 8 years off, started a family, etc and no time to be instructing or flying much. Kids are big enough now to enjoy the plane and longer trips. The biggest difference with the 182 is the heavy nose, and how much more it comes down with power off than a 172. The plane has a Black max 3 bladed prop, which is very smooth and climbs very nicely. It really does act like a speed brake when full forward.

For pattern work tomorrow, I'm thinking to try about 20" MP and 100 mph on downwind, then abeam 10 deg, 18" and 90 mph. Base to 20 deg, still 90 mph, final prop forward, 30 flaps, 15"mp and 80 mph, then adjust accordingly. Last flight I was pulling too much power early, then having to add a bunch back in on short final.

The plane also has a Stratus, so I'm looking forward to some x-country flights to really try that out with my Ipad. Amazing technology.
 
Cricket1 said:
Thanks for the responses. I've got about 400 hrs total, with about 45 in a 172RG, and 10 in a Cherokee Six but zero 182 time. Actually about 1.5 hrs between 2 flights during my investigation of the plane before buying into the partnership.

I did my private in a 150, then instrument in an Archer, then Comml and CFI in the RG. Took about 8 years off, started a family, etc and no time to be instructing or flying much. Kids are big enough now to enjoy the plane and longer trips. The biggest difference with the 182 is the heavy nose, and how much more it comes down with power off than a 172. The plane has a Black max 3 bladed prop, which is very smooth and climbs very nicely. It really does act like a speed brake when full forward.

For pattern work tomorrow, I'm thinking to try about 20" MP and 100 mph on downwind, then abeam 10 deg, 18" and 90 mph. Base to 20 deg, still 90 mph, final prop forward, 30 flaps, 15"mp and 80 mph, then adjust accordingly. Last flight I was pulling too much power early, then having to add a bunch back in on short final.

The plane also has a Stratus, so I'm looking forward to some x-country flights to really try that out with my Ipad. Amazing technology.
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You have more total hours than I did transitioning to my 182, but the rest is quite similar including the 8 year break.

My number one piece of advice for you is to nail the airspeeds down and trim trim trim and did I mention, trim? If it won’t fly the speed you want trimmed hands off, fix it. Easiest way to make a 182 behave. (Any airplane really but you can horse a 172 around with just the yoke and never feel fatigued doing it. Which allows you to cheat a lot if you’re not nailing speeds.

The 182 will let you know if you’re flying it wrong because you’ll be tired. Two fingers from downwind to the flare and then you may need to add a little horsepower from the wrist and elbow. Your right leg, too. Don’t neglect the rudder trim. But in the pattern it’s common for me to leave it twisted enough right for the takeoff and then I just almost subconsciously add a little LEFT rudder pressure against my own trim setting when doing pattern work.

If you leave the pattern and cruise, trim it right and expect the usual jab of right rudder again if you have to add any significant power. Or just trim it right all the time and don’t be lazy like me.

ktup-flyer said:
A friend of mine sent me this. Works pretty well.
View attachment 57470 View attachment 57471
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I like that guy’s style! That’s nearly perfect. The only thing I would add is to look up two things early on when flying 182s. Look up how lower weights and higher weights affect approach speed and CHANGE it to match. And also look up the calibrated airspeed table and see just how much error there is at low speed and fly the correct INDICATED speed CORRECTED for the error. In other words, it’ll fly SLOWER indicated than the above.

And that guy is absolutely right to be slowing below approach speed after crossing the fence. At least another five knots needs to be sloughed off if you’re approaching at 70 and maybe even 10 with full flaps. Especially if it has 40 degrees. Look up the stall speeds and weight corrections. They’ll flat out fly slower than a 172 or 172RG. Bigger wing. More area. Huge flaps. Most people try to land Skylanes at Skyhawk speeds and float a long way fighting to keep directional control and twitching the elevator waiting for it to settle in. If you slow up to the book speeds it’ll want to land.

That said... get slow with full 40 and you need a blast of power QUICK. Just a blast mind you, but it’ll develop an eye popping sink rate at 55 knots. And you’re headed up the back side of the power curve there so you need more power but just a second of it than you think to get back to 60. So don’t get complacent when slowing. If it slows too much, don’t let it. And hold the nose down when you do that blast. (Or let the nose drop to gain speed if you have a few feet vertically to play with but it’s going to be a bigger pull at the bottom and you have to time it right.)

Anyway... last reminder. Trim. The nose isn’t “heavy” if you’re trimming it correctly. :)
 
denverpilot said:
I like that guy’s style! That’s nearly perfect. The only thing I would add is to look up two things early on when flying 182s. Look up how lower weights and higher weights affect approach speed and CHANGE it to match. And also look up the calibrated airspeed table and see just how much error there is at low speed and fly the correct INDICATED speed CORRECTED for the error. In other words, it’ll fly SLOWER indicated than the above.

And that guy is absolutely right to be slowing below approach speed after crossing the fence. At least another five knots needs to be sloughed off if you’re approaching at 70 and maybe even 10 with full flaps. Especially if it has 40 degrees. Look up the stall speeds and weight corrections. They’ll flat out fly slower than a 172 or 172RG. Bigger wing. More area. Huge flaps. Most people try to land Skylanes at Skyhawk speeds and float a long way fighting to keep directional control and twitching the elevator waiting for it to settle in. If you slow up to the book speeds it’ll want to land.



That said... get slow with full 40 and you need a blast of power QUICK. Just a blast mind you, but it’ll develop an eye popping sink rate at 55 knots. And you’re headed up the back side of the power curve there so you need more power but just a second of it than you think to get back to 60. So don’t get complacent when slowing. If it slows too much, don’t let it. And hold the nose down when you do that blast. (Or let the nose drop to gain speed if you have a few feet vertically to play with but it’s going to be a bigger pull at the bottom and you have to time it right.)

Anyway... last reminder. Trim. The nose isn’t “heavy” if you’re trimming it correctly. :)
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Yea, he knows his stuff. It sets you up for a perfect 500fpm descent and either nails or is extremely close to the speeds. Todd used to be the editor/publisher of The Southern Aviator, and is a broker now. He gave me that before we left when I got my plane. I scanned it for another guy on here, and figured I'd throw it in this thread.

And yes.... Trim is your friend lol
 
Cricket1 said:
For pattern work tomorrow, I'm thinking to try about 20" MP and 100 mph on downwind, then abeam 10 deg, 18" and 90 mph. Base to 20 deg, still 90 mph, final prop forward, 30 flaps, 15"mp and 80 mph, then adjust accordingly. Last flight I was pulling too much power early, then having to add a bunch back in on short final. .
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I feel like the last part here related to final would have you too fast? I'm usually dialed back to 15" or even less on base. On final I no longer watch MP and fly RPM, often about 1700rpm and bring out all flaps (40 deg). Airspeed will be 80-85mph. I find I'm usually chopping all the power just before the threshold, keep it flying down to the runway, level off quickly just a few feet above the ground and the flare will be needed within just a second or two. If you come over the numbers with flaps 40 and 1500rpm, it will land but will take awhile. And I have a hunch my final is a bit steep, often 3 or 4 whites on short final and descent rate of 600...700fpm. My first CFI was really against me dragging it in forever hence the steeper, full flaps final approach. Not saying it's right or best, maybe just call it a data point.

Kinda interesting reading that guys paper. He's using those low MP numbers like 12.5". Once below 14" or so I don't think I've ever even look at the MP, just immediately switch to flying by RPM.
 
denverpilot said:
Well I’ll be damned. The Skyhawk is such a dog with less horsepower I always ass-u-med.

Even worse, that means all these Skyhawk approach numbers in various threads here are awfully fast... lol.

Why y’all bombing around 20 knots above stall in those things?? ;)
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Because they slow down like ho shopper on east Colfax when ya pull power...
 
Clark1961 said:
Because they slow down like ho shopper on east Colfax when ya pull power...
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LOL. I guess!

I just looked. Last Skyhawk flight was 9/2/2007 so I guess I have forgotten what a dog they are.

Morrrrrre horsepower!!!!!
 
denverpilot said:
LOL. I guess!

I just looked. Last Skyhawk flight was 9/2/2007 so I guess I have forgotten what a dog they are.
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That'll make CFIing fun for a few flights...suggest avoiding the O-300s for a few flights...and get used to a long departure taxi at APA...and for more fun take one to FTG on a summer afternoon so you can check stall horn function on climbout at Vy...oh the joy of a mighty 172 at 5,000+ ground elevation...
 
Clark1961 said:
That'll make CFIing fun for a few flights...suggest avoiding the O-300s for a few flights...and get used to a long departure taxi at APA...and for more fun take one to FTG on a summer afternoon so you can check stall horn function on climbout at Vy...oh the joy of a mighty 172 at 5,000+ ground elevation...
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Yeah. I may want to get some 172 time with another CFI and go see how much the kids are going to scare me when they pull the throttle back on short final, eh? LOL.

To be honest, that was on “the list” of stuff to do with the CFI prep CFI(s). Fly something woefully underpowered and learn how fast I have to stop pretending the student isn’t going to kill me and push their throttle hand up. Haha. Not kidding.

Also knew it’ll be different in summer. I’ll start with the Winter version of Skyhawk wimpiness and ease into it. Haha.

I guess they wrecked all the Goboshes so that won’t be something to go try out. Probably a W&B problem with my fat ass anyway. :)
 
denverpilot said:
Yeah. I may want to get some 172 time with another CFI and go see how much the kids are going to scare me when they pull the throttle back on short final, eh? LOL.

To be honest, that was on “the list” of stuff to do with the CFI prep CFI(s). Fly something woefully underpowered and learn how fast I have to stop pretending the student isn’t going to kill me and push their throttle hand up. Haha. Not kidding.

Also knew it’ll be different in summer. I’ll start with the Winter version of Skyhawk wimpiness and ease into it. Haha.

I guess they wrecked all the Goboshes so that won’t be something to go try out. Probably a W&B problem with my fat ass anyway. :)
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I would not doubt that you would do anything but take a well reasoned approach Nate. Just reminiscing a bit about the 172. I did some commercial training in one and got to put it in all sorts of situations up high and close to the ground. It might be the airplane least likely to kill you but it'll give plenty of opportunity to empty various excretory orifices.

The Gobosh was pretty forgiving. Just don't land it fast (which those guys spec'd too high of an approach speed) and don't be over gross and get slow (which was the accident that led them to fast approach speeds).
 
Sinistar said:
I feel like the last part here related to final would have you too fast? I'm usually dialed back to 15" or even less on base. On final I no longer watch MP and fly RPM, often about 1700rpm and bring out all flaps (40 deg). Airspeed will be 80-85mph. I find I'm usually chopping all the power just before the threshold, keep it flying down to the runway, level off quickly just a few feet above the ground and the flare will be needed within just a second or two. If you come over the numbers with flaps 40 and 1500rpm, it will land but will take awhile. And I have a hunch my final is a bit steep, often 3 or 4 whites on short final and descent rate of 600...700fpm. My first CFI was really against me dragging it in forever hence the steeper, full flaps final approach. Not saying it's right or best, maybe just call it a data point.

Kinda interesting reading that guys paper. He's using those low MP numbers like 12.5". Once below 14" or so I don't think I've ever even look at the MP, just immediately switch to flying by RPM.
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Yesterday I spent an hour with a CFI and did a bunch of pattern work. Only bounced it on the main gear once, and then landed it fine. Temp was only in the 40's, so it climbed very well. I found that setting 23/23 on crosswind gave about 110 mph on downwind. Flaps 10 abeam, throttle to 15", flaps 20 turning base, then prop forward, carb heat on and then about 12"mp, final 30 degrees. 80mph over the fence, and then add just a pinch of power in the flare. Trimming for each power change.

We did a short field t/o and landing that went fine, and did one touch and go. That one was a bit exciting, as I didn't have enough hands to hold the flap switch up while adding power, AND at the same time trim for t/o. So with nearly full nose up trim, took a big push to hold the nose down once we started climbing.

Overall a great lesson. :)
 
Cricket1 said:
Yesterday I spent an hour with a CFI and did a bunch of pattern work. Only bounced it on the main gear once, and then landed it fine. Temp was only in the 40's, so it climbed very well. I found that setting 23/23 on crosswind gave about 110 mph on downwind. Flaps 10 abeam, throttle to 15", flaps 20 turning base, then prop forward, carb heat on and then about 12"mp, final 30 degrees. 80mph over the fence, and then add just a pinch of power in the flare. Trimming for each power change.

We did a short field t/o and landing that went fine, and did one touch and go. That one was a bit exciting, as I didn't have enough hands to hold the flap switch up while adding power, AND at the same time trim for t/o. So with nearly full nose up trim, took a big push to hold the nose down once we started climbing.

Overall a great lesson. :)
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Generally over time I’ve moved putting the prop up to the downwind in my flow and fly it with a little less speed. It’s also there in the manufacturer’s checklist “as required”.

Two reasons. In a busy pattern you’ll tend to sneak up on Skyhawks from behind being a little faster than they are... so 90 knots downwind ends up mixing with the other traffic better whenever there’s a bunch of aircraft in the pattern... 23” will have you catching a lot of airplanes. You’ll find 90 knots is somewhere at or just below the bottom of the green arc on the MP gauge.

And probably more importantly as you transition to retractable gear someday you’ll want the gear down earlier as well.

So the final checklist (or GUMPS if that’s you’re thing) is done twice, once at pattern altitude on either downwind or final and again on short final, and it includes both the gear (first in the case of GUMPS, “gear down to go down”) and the prop (at the end).

Not a big deal but just mentioning it for primacy. If you do it the same all the time you won’t have to “unlearn” any out of order habits later.

Also 80MPH over the fence is fine but it’s still a lot of energy you need to get rid of to land just above a stall. You can work that a lot slower with practice.

I know I’m mixing knots and MPH for you but if your 182 has a dual indicator (ours does) I decided to memorize 182 stuff in knots because I was flying three different models at one point and only ours had MPH indications on the ASI. I use 85 downwind abeam, 75 base, 65 final, slowing to 55 after the runway is assured... unless I’m shooting for a super short landing with the STOL kit. Easy to remember, and crosses over to all the 182 types well.
 
Yeah, there wasn't anyone else in the pattern, so I could run it quickly. The one issue with the K model is the flaps are limited to 110mph, so you have to keep that speed somewhat in check on downwind anyway. I figure most 172s will be doing 90 kts on downwind, so if I'm going 100-110 mph, I shouldn't be catching them very quickly, if at all. Of course if you have a student in a 150, then yeah I'd be catching them quick. :)

The three bladed prop on my K model is rather draggy when full forward, I've found putting it forward on downwind tends to rev the engine a bit, not a big deal. Putting it forward when turning base doesn't rev it up, and seems to work well.

As to the retract gear thing, yeah I've done it with a 172RG on my Comml and Cfi training/checkride. Hard to say if I ever go much past the 182 or not. Possibly cause I would love a Comanche 260, but that might be years down the road, or not at all.
 
Also, my ASI has both MPH and knots, but MPH is larger and on the outside, Knots is inside ring and rather hard to read. MPH for me. :)
 
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