Marine Osprey MV-22; Mikey likes it!

gkainz

Final Approach
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Greg Kainz
Marines Satisfied With MV-22

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The U.S. Marine Corps is acting as the lead service on the Bell-Boeing MV-22 Osprey tiltrotor,
with three deployments to Iraq under its belt and a squadron flying from the deck of the
USS Bataan amphibious assault ship. Meanwhile, the U.S. Air Force Special Operations
Command (AFSOC) is growing its own fleet of CV-22s, steadily building hours and mission
profiles....More http://www.military.com/features/0,15240,200393,00.html?ESRC=navy.nl
 
Good luck taking one of those into a combat zone. One thirty mm gun in the back is all that protects the occupants from a meeting with their maker. Hit one engine with an RPG and it's all over. You can't even come in too fast without pancaking the thing.
 
.... One thirty mm gun in the back is all that protects the occupants from a meeting with their maker..... .

Well............as stated in the article in the OP...
A belly-mounted defensive weapon being designed by BAE Systems is still in testing and is "something we hope to get our hands on this year," says Linafelter. It is desirable for 360-deg. defensive coverage, he adds."
 
Well............as stated in the article in the OP...

A belly-mounted defensive weapon being designed by BAE Systems is still in testing and is "something we hope to get our hands on this year," says Linafelter. It is desirable for 360-deg. defensive coverage, he adds."

BAE Systems ... hmmm, the same folks that designed and implemented the initial automated baggage shredder system at DIA ... yeah, not sure I would trust that one ... :thumbsup:
 
At least you could enter an auto rotation in the CH-53. Not sure how fast you could readjust the tilt rotor for auto rotation.

Why autorotate when you can glide?

If you are in hover mode, your blade pitch will move just as quick as on a helo, right? If not, feel free to explain why not..
 
Why autorotate when you can glide?

If you are in hover mode, your blade pitch will move just as quick as on a helo, right? If not, feel free to explain why not..

Not much wing on the Tilt rotor so I imagine it glides like a brick.

If the tilt rotor is in hover mode there should be no reason it couldn't enter an auto. However, if in forward flight mode or transition auto rotation would be tricky.

Not sure about forward flight mode with an engine failure and how you can transition to hover for landing.
 
Not much wing on the Tilt rotor so I imagine it glides like a brick.

If the tilt rotor is in hover mode there should be no reason it couldn't enter an auto. However, if in forward flight mode or transition auto rotation would be tricky.

Not sure about forward flight mode with an engine failure and how you can transition to hover for landing.

I'm thinking more like a space shuttle approach profile to a prop strike landing
 
I belive it can't land unless its in hover mode. The blades are too big.

I can assure you that aircraft (and any other) can LAND (once) in any configuration, either in controlled flight or not. .

A hover mode landing is desirable if you want to operate the aircraft further.
 
I think I remember seeing a deal on them saying that in the event of a power loss in one engine the other one has the ability to drive both rotors. Not sure about if you lose a rotor though.
 
I can assure you that aircraft (and any other) can LAND (once) in any configuration, either in controlled flight or not. .

A hover mode landing is desirable if you want to operate the aircraft further.

Looking solely at the picture, it looks like a prop forward landing would have a meat grinder effect to the pilot and co-pilot while the prop disintegrates. Yikes.
 
I think I remember seeing a deal on them saying that in the event of a power loss in one engine the other one has the ability to drive both rotors. Not sure about if you lose a rotor though.
In the event of an engine failure, one engine can drive both rotors. If a fan comes off, no point in worrying about much of anything. It'll all be over soon.

The Osprey had it's share of growing pains, but it is starting to find it's niche. All of the nay-sayers are just jealous of the new kid in town. Yes, the -53 was an amazing platform, but it had reached the end of the road. But remember, although the -22 replaced the -53 in the inventory, it was never intended to be a one for one replacement. Different capes and simmilar but still different missions. I think it will do just fine. Plus, they use TWO FE's (one as the FE, the other as Gunner/Scanner). Job security for me!:D
 
Anything will have problems if hit with ordinance, but military helicopters can be landed very quickly and heavily armed. The Osprey has limited armament due to weight concerns and cannot be landed quickly under any circumstances. That's a troop carrier that you have to land very, very gently and slowly. I am incredulous that this is a good thing in a combat zone. It is the first weapons system the Marines have acquired themselves, and may be the last given how badly they've bolluxed it.

The sad thing is that it would be an ideal commuter vehicle if it wasn't so expensive. Imagine using heliports to initiate aircraft flights. You could clear up tremendous amounts of runway congestion. However, I doubt it will ever be price effective to use in this fashion.
 
And the L/D of an autorotating helicopter is _____???

What I like about a helicopter is in the event of a powerplant failure is auto rotation. Sure the auto is a steeper angle, but it's very controlled and all I need is a space big enough to clear the rotor diameter to land in. And if I'm "gliding" in an auto at 60kts just before touchdown I can decelerate and bleed off all that forward energy and touch down with minimal forward speed. During the deceleration phase of the auto I'm forcing more air through the rotor which in turn speeds it up which in turn gives me more rotor enertia to "soften" the landing. In an airplane you can't do that without stalling and then falling hard on to the ground with plenty of energy still built up.
 
Define very, very gently and slowly.

Aggressive landing will set of a Vortex Ring State, which can become asymmetrical, causing an uncontrolled rolling motion of the aircraft from which recovery is nearly impossible. I believe the Navy restricts the craft's descent to no more than 800 feet/minute. At least one of the Osprey crashes was due to the pilots landing the aircraft too aggressively, causing the Vortex rotor and uncontrolled rolling. All aboard were lost.
 
Aggressive landing will set of a Vortex Ring State, which can become asymmetrical, causing an uncontrolled rolling motion of the aircraft from which recovery is nearly impossible. I believe the Navy restricts the craft's descent to no more than 800 feet/minute. At least one of the Osprey crashes was due to the pilots landing the aircraft too aggressively, causing the Vortex rotor and uncontrolled rolling. All aboard were lost.

"Gentle" for the Osprey users and "gentle" for us seem to be two very different things. If I "landed" any plane I'm checked out in at even 500 ft/min it will bounce back off the ground like a ping-pong ball.

I realize the military needs to do things differently- their aircraft must be built like tanks for more than 800 ft/sec contact with the ground. Ouch!
 
Aggressive landing will set of a Vortex Ring State, which can become asymmetrical, causing an uncontrolled rolling motion of the aircraft from which recovery is nearly impossible. I believe the Navy restricts the craft's descent to no more than 800 feet/minute. At least one of the Osprey crashes was due to the pilots landing the aircraft too aggressively, causing the Vortex rotor and uncontrolled rolling. All aboard were lost.


Vortex ring effect in helicopters


The curved arrows indicate airflow circulation about the rotor disc. The helicopter shown is the RAH-66 Comanche.



The V-22 Osprey in flight.


Vortex ring state (VRS), also known as settling with power, is a hazardous condition encountered in helicopter flight. It occurs when the helicopter has three things occurring: A high rate of descent , an airspeed slower than effective translational lift, and the helicopter is using a large portion of its available power. A helicopter typically induces a vortex ring state by descending into its own downwash. In typical flight, the rotor disc directs the airflow downwards, creating lift. During VRS, a toroid-shaped path of airflow circumscribes the blade disc, as the airflow moves down through the disc, then outward, and then down through the top again. This re-circulation of flow can negate much of the lifting force and cause a catastrophic loss of altitude. Specific to vortex ring state is that the helicopter operating in its own downwash is descending through descending air. Applying more power (increasing collective pitch) serves to further accelerate the downwash through which the main-rotor is descending, exacerbating the condition. A particularly deadly example occurred on April 8, 2000, when a V22 Osprey suffered VRS as a result of a classic high descent and low forward airspeed. The fully-laden aircraft stalled its right wing, rolled over, and crashed, killing all 19 aboard.
In single rotor helicopters, a VRS can be corrected by moving the cyclic forward, which controls the pitch angle of the rotor blade, slightly pitching nose down, and establishing forward flight. In tandem-rotor helicopters, recovery is accomplished through lateral cyclic or pedal input. The aircraft will fly into "clean air", and will be able to regain lift.
 
so, in a nutshell, running landings are desirable?
 
so, in a nutshell, running landings are desirable?

Depends. On a normal approach factors such as wind will keep the helicopter out of the VRS. On a steep approach and slow just reduce the sink rate. In the 269's I use to teach in we taught at speed less than 30kts no more than 300fm sink rate.

I use to teach settling with power demonstrations by starting at 2000agl. It takes fairly calm to low wind conditions to make it work. Basically you bring the helicopter to zero airspeed and hold altitude. Soon the student notices to hold altitude he's adding more and more collective, then the helicopter begins sinking. To recover is to simply move forward out of the column of air.
 
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