Manuever Specific Checklists

[gitmo234]

I had an idea the other day and I wanted an opinion on it. We use checklists for everything, so I was wondering how it would be perceived if I made maneuver specific checklists. Particularly for the stuff on a check ride.

My CFI seems to think its a bit too close to "cheating". I just thought it seemed smart.

Example would be steep turns. Checklist would ensuring minimum altitude, picking a point, entering the turn, throttle control, etc.

I was just going to have them in my checklist book with every other checklist and when asked to do a steep turn, stall, etc I could just flip to that page and follow it (it would have PTS standards in it as well).

 

[Greg Bockelman]

You know, most of those maneuvers pretty much have the same limitations.

It would be a good exercise to help you get a handle on what the limits/procedures are. But after you do them more than twice, you will have it down anyway.

Do them for your own benefit, but I am sure you won't be able to use them on a checkride.

 

[JoeFromKS]

I've heard of this, but honestly by the time you are doing your checkride you'll know the maneuvers well enough that it may be more of a distraction.
My .02

 

[SixPapaCharlie]

I wouldn't do it.
Just remember the RPM settings for the maneuvers.

I think if you pull out a checklist for every maneuver the examiner will wonder why you are essentially reading the "how to fly a plane" manual in flight.

I believe the test is a test of your ability to do the basic things safely using learned knowledge and even a little muscle memory.

 

[gitmo234]

You know, most of those maneuvers pretty much have the same limitations.

It would be a good exercise to help you get a handle on what the limits/procedures are. But after you do them more than twice, you will have it down anyway.

Do them for your own benefit, but I am sure you won't be able to use them on a checkride.

That's basically what I'm finding. My first CFI never covered S turns or turns around a point. So I'm taking my check ride in about 2 weeks and in the mean time practicing those two. I noticed while refreshing the others (stalls, specifically), I was a bit rusty at first and wished i had a checklist.

 

[jordane93]

You know, most of those maneuvers pretty much have the same limitations.

It would be a good exercise to help you get a handle on what the limits/procedures are. But after you do them more than twice, you will have it down anyway.

Do them for your own benefit, but I am sure you won't be able to use them on a checkride.

My flight school has a maneuvers checklist/procedures for commercial maneuvers. The examiner that we work with said I could use it but I didn't need to. Once I got the maneuvers down it was just a useless piece of paper.

 

[SixPapaCharlie]

That's basically what I'm finding. My first CFI never covered S turns or turns around a point. So I'm taking my check ride in about 2 weeks and in the mean time practicing those two. I noticed while refreshing the others (stalls, specifically), I was a bit rusty at first and wished i had a checklist.

commit some mnemonics to memory or little memory tricks that pilots claim to hate for the checkride.

Silly example: I was afraid I was going to get confused under stress of checkride and hesitate during unusual attitudes and second guess myself so I just thought as long as I remember that the throttle always goes toward the sky, the first step requires no thought. If I open my eyes and I am pitching down, the throttle knob goes toward the sky (pull out) If I open them and I am pitched up, throttle knob goes toward the sky (push in)

Do little things like that if it helps. That type of thing helped me.

 

[Shawn]

I did that for my IFR training and check ride. I make my own checklists anyhow and view them on Foreflight documents so I made a IFR page for ILS, VOR and RNAV approach check lists to make sure that I did everything from identify the nav aid, configure the 430 to a reminder to verify if it is a timed approach.

Both my CFII and DPE liked it.

Not that I use them every day now bit I still refer back to them occasionally to make sure I am going through everything.

Now I agree that you do not want the DPE to say "OK, steep turns" and you be "hang on while I consult the check list"...but going through the exercise of developing the check list then having it in the plane to review before...and even during the flight could be a great way to help commit it to memory.

 

[JC150]

Maybe not a checklist but you could write a custom "Stan Man" (standardization manual) on those maneuvers. Usually found at the large universities like UND and ERAU.

 

[jordane93]

commit some mnemonics to memory or little memory tricks that pilots claim to hate for the checkride.

Silly example: I was afraid I was going to get confused under stress of checkride and hesitate during unusual attitudes and second guess myself so I just thought as long as I remember that the throttle always goes toward the sky, the first step requires no thought. If I open my eyes and I am pitching down, the throttle knob goes toward the sky (pull out) If I open them and I am pitched up, throttle knob goes toward the sky (push in)

Do little things like that if it helps. That type of thing helped me.

For unusual attitudes I used "Blue, power too" "Black, power back"

 

[OkieAviator]

My flight school has a maneuvers checklist/procedures for commercial maneuvers. The examiner that we work with said I could use it but I didn't need to. Once I got the maneuvers down it was just a useless piece of paper.

My CFI had a booklet from his 141 school (Where he also teaches) with all the maneuvers for the 152, 172 and the MultiEngine they have. I used/memorized this during my last 3 hours before my checkride.

 

[Henning]

You are getting away from what check lists are meant to be, they are meant to check your result after you have performed a procedure. You should have all your primary procedures down to a memorized 'flow'.

Now as a learning aid if you want to prepare a set of checklists as flash cards or something, that would be a fine idea, however to bring them to, and use them as reference on, a check ride, I'm not sure a DPE would view that favorably.

 

[Seanaldinho]

The flight school I used had a published SOP on how they wanted maneuvers performed. It was like a checklist but I certainly didn't pull it out in front of the DPE. Rather I just had in my head that flow the SOP listed.

 

[midlifeflyer]

I had an idea the other day and I wanted an opinion on it. We use checklists for everything, so I was wondering how it would be perceived if I made maneuver specific checklists. Particularly for the stuff on a check ride.

They've been around for decades. Both commercially and self-made.

Not bad for the earliest stages but, like mnemonics, can easily end up being more of a hindrance to learning than an aid.

 

[eetrojan]

I had an idea the other day and I wanted an opinion on it. We use checklists for everything, so I was wondering how it would be perceived if I made maneuver specific checklists. Particularly for the stuff on a check ride.

My CFI seems to think its a bit too close to "cheating". I just thought it seemed smart.

Example would be steep turns. Checklist would ensuring minimum altitude, picking a point, entering the turn, throttle control, etc.

I was just going to have them in my checklist book with every other checklist and when asked to do a steep turn, stall, etc I could just flip to that page and follow it (it would have PTS standards in it as well).

I certainly didn't use it as an in-flight "checklist," but I created a so-called "Chair Flying Cheat Sheet" that sounds similar to what you're thinking of doing. I used it on the ground to think through each maneuver before the stage checks and final checkride.

It's on one page, and it includes the various PTS maneuvers, some personal flows, a passenger briefing script I cobbled together, and some other things I wanted to keep top of mind, along with the PTS standards in blue.

For what it's worth, here's a link to my Chair Flying Cheat Sheet:

http://goo.gl/cHrpbo

 

[gitmo234]

I certainly didn't use it as an in-flight "checklist," but I created a so-called "Chair Flying Cheat Sheet" that sounds similar to what you're thinking of doing. I used it on the ground to think through each maneuver before the stage checks and final checkride.

It's on one page, and it includes the various PTS maneuvers, some personal flows, a passenger briefing script I cobbled together, and some other things I wanted to keep top of mind, along with the PTS standards in blue.

For what it's worth, here's a link to my Chair Flying Cheat Sheet:

http://goo.gl/cHrpbo

Thanks for the link! That's good stuff. I brought the topic up because the checklists provided with my airplane when I bought it were less than what I'd like, so I'm in the process of typing them up as we speak with a bit more detail like "Conduct passenger briefing", etc.

 

[BrandonB]

Example would be steep turns. Checklist would ensuring minimum altitude, picking a point, entering the turn, throttle control, etc.

I was just going to have them in my checklist book with every other checklist and when asked to do a steep turn, stall, etc I could just flip to that page and follow it (it would have PTS standards in it as well).

Gitmo, while I understand your thinking, we have to remember what the purpose of demonstrating these maneuvers are. We don't do them just to demonstrate proficiency or satisfy the FAA. These maneuvers have practical application as well. They are to help you become a safe pilot.

I'm a huge fan of checklists, but if you were my student I would probably deter you from using a written checklist for any maneuver, especially private pilot ones. I would make you memorize them until they were implanted in your brain. Why? If you found yourself in a sticky situation, you wouldn't have time for a checklist.

Demonstrating stall recovery is a must have skill for any pilot. It must become part of your subconscious mind. Same thing goes for turns around a point/S-Turns. They are to help you improve with controlling your ground track. Another must-have skill every pilot should have implanted into his/her subconcious mind.

Apart from the practical application I agree with your instructor that it might be viewed as a crutch during a checkride. Plus I think your DE will be more impressed by you instinctively knowing how to demonstrate these maneuvers and just orally stating what you're doing, rather than whipping out a written checklist to demonstrate a maneuver.

In summary, I would have to say that checklists are best meant for time-permitting tasks, rather than maneuvers and skills that should be (or should eventually become) instinctive.

I hope that helps some.

 

[dlsmith]

Maybe not a checklist but you could write a custom "Stan Man" (standardization manual) on those maneuvers. Usually found at the large universities like UND and ERAU.

This is exactly what we have. It outlines the steps, power settings, configurations, and standards (like complete with altitude +/- 100ft). Its a good training tool. Commit it to memory, don't just read it, but if you find yourself having a brain fart on whether something was supposed to be clean or landing config, it's a lifesaver.

 

[James331]

I had an idea the other day and I wanted an opinion on it. We use checklists for everything, so I was wondering how it would be perceived if I made maneuver specific checklists. Particularly for the stuff on a check ride.

My CFI seems to think its a bit too close to "cheating". I just thought it seemed smart.

Example would be steep turns. Checklist would ensuring minimum altitude, picking a point, entering the turn, throttle control, etc.

I was just going to have them in my checklist book with every other checklist and when asked to do a steep turn, stall, etc I could just flip to that page and follow it (it would have PTS standards in it as well).

I've debated it, made a list for all the specs for maneuvers, never had a student bring it into a ride. By the time you're ready and your CFI signs you off you won't need it.

 

[Henning]

I've debated it, made a list for all the specs for maneuvers, never had a student bring it into a ride. By the time you're ready and your CFI signs you off you won't need it.

Exactly, they should be a study aid. When you take the test you should be done studying them.