Malibu into home; Il

Sad. :(
 
I think I'd prefer to crash on the way to training, rather than on the way back...


Trapper John
 
I don't know how to dig up past wx metars. Any ideas??
 
Didn't remember the look back feature on his program.

Low ceilings, 1.5mi vis, pressure pretty much bottomed out, light winds.

KCPS 212353Z 06003KT 1 1/2SM RA BR OVC004 05/04 A2976 RMK AO2 SLP079 P0012 60019 T00500044 10067 20044 58007
KCPS 220024Z 07006KT 2SM RA BR BKN004 BKN018 OVC048 05/04 A2976 RMK AO2 P0008
KCPS 220032Z 09003KT 2SM -RA BR SCT004 BKN021 OVC048 05/04 A2976 RMK AO2 P0009
KCPS 220042Z 00000KT 2SM -RA BR BKN006 OVC021 05/04 A2977 RMK AO2 P0011
KCPS 220053Z 00000KT 1 1/2SM -RA BR BKN006 OVC023 05/04 A2977 RMK AO2 SLP081 P0013 T00500044
 
dmccormack said:
Wx at the scene?
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They crashed about 4-5 miles out; you're not going to get much closer. You can see the 2 mile scale at the bottom; the airport they were headed to is St. Louis Downtown, at the top left, they were on the extended centerline (ILS?) and ironically crashed at an a grass strip airport-home community, at marker "A".

If you can get weather for Scott AFB / MidAmerica in Illinois, that was about the same distance east of their position as they were from St. Louis Downtown, and will tell you if the weather was pretty constant over the area. With low pressure and 400' ceilings, I'm imagining it was.

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TangoWhiskey said:
They crashed about 4-5 miles out; you're not going to get much closer. You can see the 2 mile scale at the bottom; the airport they were headed to is St. Louis Downtown, at the top left, they were on the extended centerline (ILS?) and ironically crashed at an a grass strip airport-home community, at marker "A".

If you can get weather for Scott AFB / MidAmerica in Illinois, that was about the same distance east of their position as they were from St. Louis Downtown, and will tell you if the weather was pretty constant over the area. With low pressure and 400' ceilings, I'm imagining it was.
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Great info -- thanks!

400' shouldn't be a problem for a current IFR pilot in a well equipped machine such as a Malibu.

This will be an interesting -- and sobering -- NTSB read. :(
 
they may have filed to the airport and then tried to get into the airpark visually.

edit - just reread the article, this doesn't seem like the case
 
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Dave Theisen said:
They may have filed to the other airport, then tried to get into the residential airpark visually.
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I was wondering the same thing...

What else would explain crashing 4 to 5 miles short, other than an altimeter setting error?


Trapper John
 
Trapper John said:
Wow, I'd say so...if the two radars shown on the track log are correct. But it looks like something is wrong.


Trapper John
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I wonder if there's some positioning error among the sites. The track log alternates between KGTS and Gateway (St. Louis) TRACON for the final 10 minutes of the Flightaware Log. Slightly before that, there are a few Kansas City Center hits in the mix...
 
Trapper John said:
Wow, I'd say so...if the two radars shown on the track log are correct. But it looks like something is wrong.


Trapper John
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Witnesses reported high pitched sound. Last radar return was at 1800 feet. Ground is 555 feet. Sound a bit like a very steep if not vertical descent.
 
I agree, The pic I saw showed a straight down into that hangar... What are the chances of that ?
 
dmccormack said:
400' shouldn't be a problem for a current IFR pilot in a well equipped machine such as a Malibu.
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Agreed... it will be interesting to read up on what happened.

A bit over a week ago I shot an ILS right down to mins (200 AGL). I wasn't feeling good that morning and didn't want to do it, but damned if the needles weren't centered all the way down the pike and when I broke out the runway was right there in front of me. I could see, though, where someone who was tired at the end of a long trip might have issues with it. At that point human factors become a big deal.
 
This Mirage was Don's 3rd PA46, he was a great person. I knew the passenger too, he owned a 1984 Malibu He was also a neat and interesting person also. I will miss them both.

Kevin
 
I will be interested to read this NTSB report for sure. I can think of a couple scenarios that could pretty easily happen.
 
TangoWhiskey said:
Yeah, when you zoom in at the end of their FlightAware track, there's some crazy stuff going on. Sobering. RIP, indeed.

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Where is the airport in relation to this squiggle (the 'cruise' part looks like typical misregistration between two radar sites).
 
something doesn't add up with the flightaware info, no surprise.
News says they were doing approaches at cps and the crash site was into a hangar but radar track shows them not really getting within range of the field?
 
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Let'sgoflying! said:
something doesn;t add up with the flightaware info, no surprise.
News says they were doing approaches at cps and the crash site was into a hangar but radar track shows them not really getting within range of the field?
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The hangar is on a private airpark that is along the localizer for St Louis Downtown airport. It is probably coincidence that they crashed on an airport.
 
weilke said:
The hangar is on a private airpark that is along the localizer for St Louis Downtown airport. It is probably coincidence that they crashed on an airport.
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that is a coincidence,....I suppose. right?

And what about the radar, them not getting near the field but apparently having another go at it?
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
that is a coincidence,....I suppose. right?

And what about the radar, them not getting near the field but apparently having another go at it?
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Don't think you have to overfly the airport to go missed. May just have received vectors for a circle to get back for a second intercept of the localizer.

Looking at the actual log shows that most of the 'east' tacks are the result of returns from 'gateway tracon' being interspersed with returns from KGTS. If someone cleaned those up and plotted only the KGTS returns onto a map it would probably look less erratic.

The other possibility of course would be that they set up for the approach with the goal to duck under the clouds, cancel IFR and get into the airpark. Given the really crummy weather in the metars above, that would seem rather odd.
 
It had a Mid Continent standby gyro to the left of the pilots HSI. If the primary attitude indicator (the famous KI-256) failed I hope the stby unit would have advised him.

Regards, Kevin
 
It isn't easy to fly on the standbys. IIRC, though, this isn't a glass Mirage, unless he upgraded, which is unlikely. It was a 1989, probably still the straight 6 pack, and he was fresh from some of the best recurrent PA46 money can buy.

Long trip for a Mirage, although an 89 can go LOP 16gph, so even the standard fuel should be more than enough, so I doubt fuel was an issue.

Me - I write it off to an aviating mistake. Tragic. Loss of good people.
 
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