Malaysian Airliner missing?

Ruthless53 said:
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSBREA2D0DG20140314?irpc=932
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Ach. This article is crap. It's the Malaysian military radar thing we were talking about days ago and has nothing to do with the later satellite data. No new info at all really except the exact waypoints, and this statement leads me to believe it's complete bunk:

Two sources said an unidentified aircraft that investigators believe was Flight MH370 was following a route between navigational waypoints when it was last plotted on military radar off the country's northwest coast.

This indicates that it was either being flown by the pilots or someone with knowledge of those waypoints, the sources said.
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Or it means some jerk in a newsroom found some charts and compared them with where they thought the plane went and inferred "knowledge". I doubt it actually made it all the way to VAMPI, turned 120 degrees right to IGREX and then 90 degrees left a few minutes later. You certainly wouldn't plan a route that way.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
I couldn't find a source for the airways, but here it is based on the waypoints:

attachment.php
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So that essentially puts its last direction of travel towards India/Pakistan....
 
N801BH said:
I have 5 bucks the feds will REQUIRE all airlines to subscribe to that service.... And it will be required ASAP.... Like , next week..:yes:
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I'll take your $5. No chance of a requirement by next week. The time to equip older planes alone makes it unfeasible.

dans2992 said:
I'd wager it's at the bottom of the ocean, but the conspiracy theories are certainly interesting...
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It's possible, but an array of folks in the US government think it's also possible that it was commandeered.

Lindberg said:
That's TSA type government thinking, and it's wrong.
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Funny, no one thought that the events of 9/11 would ever happen, either, and folks that might have suggested it were called "wrong" and "fearmongers". How many countries are in that region that are hostile to the US and/or may harbor terrorists.

Given the amount of misinformation so far, I would not be surprised if we learn that the plane had more fuel on it than has been reported.
 
I don't have a 4000 x 4000 resolution monitor.
 
Norman said:
Precisely what I've been thinking. The plane had enough fuel to reach Pakistan, a primarily Muslim country that already has nuclear weapons.
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We say some funny things.... myself included, but I cannot see anybody in any sort of power position in Pakistan being complicit in a scenario involving a 777 nuclear or biological weap. terr***st att*ck. (insert alphabet soup text crawl here). There is zero upside... and every downside. No half-way stable country wants anything nuclear to be released into the atmosphere anywhere. Un. Wise.

Those types of "games" are played by those who have an unnaturally reduced value of (their own) life on this earth. ---unlike traditional warfare... which is a game "played" by those who have a calculated reduced value for others' (soldiers' & in-country civilians') lives on this earth.

It may be in hands with plans to use for bad things.... but I cannot see it enterring Pakistan's airspace without Pakistan being informed by US command that we know that they know that it is there. It is a small world in that respect.
 
Lindberg said:
That's TSA type government thinking, and it's wrong.
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Ooops. I forgot. My bad. There are no threats to the United States and everybody loves us very, very much. Besides, should there actually be any delusional, misguided people out there that actually have ill will against us, as unlikely as that is, our mighty military will smite them down easily. No need to worry because history has shown us...:rolleyes:
 
Fearless Tower said:
How?

No way we can tell that sort of thing with what we have in operation.
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Could be BS but it came from a book that I didn't believe was written as fiction. Might only apply air to air radar. Red Eagles by Steve Davies.

There was an earlier program to profile the MIG 21's compressor profile and turbine blades *snip* "The R29 engines would show up on our radars as a DC 10 because the compressor face was so huge" *snip* He flew the MIG 23 against 422nd F-15's with the radar modifications to make sure the new algorithms would correctly identify the returns of R29A as opposed to the General Electric CF6 of an airliner
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Bill Jennings said:
Most think it will be a dirty or atomic/nuclear bomb. I think it would be more likely some kind of biological weapon. Spray a large metropolitan area while on approach/departure with some type of highly communicable flesh eating disease, for instance.

Terroist plane is in, done, and gone before any symptoms show. People disperse across the country before any symptoms show. Bad news.

I'm sure world leaders are sweating this one out, we should be too.
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What a delightful thought, similar to the film 12 Monkeys.
 
EdFred said:
I don't have a 4000 x 4000 resolution monitor.
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Neither do I... Quite. 3840x2400.

The odd thing is, the pic appears way bigger on my screen than it did when I took it. Probably thinks it's some graphic designed for a PC screen and is enlarging it as if it were 72 dpi.
 
All the technology on these airplanes and something a little spot trace unit for $99 could have damn near solved. Companies track their trucks via gps, I am surprised these companies don't track their $$$$$$$$$$ jets. or do they??
 
JasonM said:
All the technology on these airplanes and something a little spot trace unit for $99 could have damn near solved. Companies track their trucks via gps, I am surprised these companies don't track their $$$$$$$$$$ jets. or do they??
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Yeah but those units transmit location over the cell phone network. You have to have some means of communication to relay the GPS position.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Nope, the Spot trackers are satellite based - Iridium I believe.
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Iirc Spot uses the older not so good Globalstar and the Delorme tracker is on Iridium. The Delorme is more money but compared to a 777 a couple of dozen of either is not relevant price wise.
 
It is absolutely not possible that this airplane is in Pakistan. I do not understand how anyone could believe that it could be.
 
Dav8or said:
Yes they would if they new there was positively, for a fact, nearly 300 foreign nationals on board the plane. Particularly if the people in control of the airplane claim to be something like Somali pirates or something, looking for money or political favor. The hope of saving innocent civilians would cause us to hesitate. It's who we are and what we do.
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During 9/11 we were ready to drop airliners full of American citizens. A plane with terrorists headed towards a major city will be dropped if we get to it in time.
 
ClimbnSink said:
Iirc Spot uses the older not so good Globalstar and the Delorme tracker is on Iridium. The Delorme is more money but compared to a 777 a couple of dozen of either is not relevant price wise.
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It's even better, the M2M sat transmitter was embedded into every 777 anyway. That's how Boeing received pings from the jet and where the independent confirmation comes from - I mean independent from what RR engine monitoring got. So, there's no cost advantage. There may be a price advantage. Perhaps Malaysian Airlines chose not to subscribe to monitoring service because Boeing wanted arm and leg for it.
 
wsuffa said:
Funny, no one thought that the events of 9/11 would ever happen, either, and folks that might have suggested it were called "wrong" and "fearmongers".
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Not true. Although it might make us feel better to think that way, nothing about the 9/11 attack was unpredictable, sophisticated, or nearly as far-fetched as the theories being circulated about this flight. Yet, it has minimal impact on the statistical probabilities of failure (human or mechanical) vs. terrorism. If you want to speculate that this plane was hijacked with the intent of crashing it somewhere as a terrorist act that failed over the middle of the ocean, I wouldn't say that's outside of the realm of likely possibilities (though it'd likely be with the cooperation of the flight crew). But that's a damn far cry from saying it's sitting on a runway or in a secret hanger somewhere in preparation for some incredible plot more suitable for a Fleming or Clancy novel.

Does Al Queda have secret airbases capable of landing and servicing a 777? Or maybe a gigantic stealth aircraft carrier? Perhaps a giant stealth plane that opens at the front to consume other planes in flight? At any public airport, even in Pakistan, someone not involved in the plot would notice an unexpected 777 arrival, and would have spoken up by now. That's completely ignoring any intelligence available outside public channels.
 
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jesse said:
During 9/11 we were ready to drop airliners full of American citizens. A plane with terrorists headed towards a major city will be dropped if we get to it in time.
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No, we weren't - We only tried after three had hit, and we still got caught with our pants down: The pair of F-16's sent after Flight 93 were unarmed. One was going to try to crash into the cockpit, the other was going to try to crash into a wing/engine.

We'd certainly get there faster now, but out of "an abundance of caution" if the weapon was something with widespread effects like a bio, chem, or atomic device, we'd likely be too late.
 
darrell said:
It is absolutely not possible that this airplane is in Pakistan. I do not understand how anyone could believe that it could be.
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Henning says Myanmar or Sri Lanka.....wouldn't be suprised if he had something to do with it.

Where in the world is Henning Heinemann?
 
flyingcheesehead said:
No, we weren't - We only tried after three had hit, and we still got caught with our pants down: The pair of F-16's sent after Flight 93 were unarmed. One was going to try to crash into the cockpit, the other was going to try to crash into a wing/engine.

We'd certainly get there faster now, but out of "an abundance of caution" if the weapon was something with widespread effects like a bio, chem, or atomic device, we'd likely be too late.
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The statements in bold support the below quote directly:
During 9/11 we were ready to drop airliners full of American citizens.
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I didn't say we were ABLE to do it simply that we were mentally ready to do so. Had another airliner been suddenly headed towards DC the next day I assure you the air force would have dropped it regardless of how many passengers were on it or what nation they were from. The vice president also issued an order to shoot them down.

Our government and our military has no qualms with shooting down an airliner if we determine that's less of a threat then letting it continue to fly. That is the point I was making.

If that 777 were to depart right now, headed for the United States from somewhere, and if we detected it which I think is quite likely we wouldn't hesitate to shoot it down regardless of the passengers.
 
jesse said:
Our government and our military has no qualms with shooting down an airliner if we determine that's less of a threat then letting it continue to fly. That is the point I was making.
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Heather Penney didn't even have any live ordnance and was prepared to use her F-16 itself as a weapon to mid-air-collision an airliner (chop the tail off) to bring it down.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...e-on-sept-11/2011/09/06/gIQAMpcODK_story.html

I've met her in person several times, she comes to WF frequently.
 
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darrell said:
It is absolutely not possible that this airplane is in Pakistan. I do not understand how anyone could believe that it could be.
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I did not say it was in Pakistan. I said it was a possibility. It did have enough fuel to get there.
 
A lot of things I don't understand about passenger airlines. How many times on these "air disaster" to they say that the pilot asked a cabin attendant to shine a flashlight out a passenger window to see if there is anything coming from the engine.

A plane should have dozens of the little button video cameras the pilots could call up to check nose gear, landing gear, one pointed to each engine, etc.

And as others say, why don't they transmit to a satellite their location at short, periodic intervals.

Some will say the instruments tell the pilots all they need to know. Then why do they fly slow pass a tower to see if they can see what is wrong, or ask a cabin attendant to check on something outside the plane.
 
What is the last known location of Emilio Largo and the Disco Volante?

270px-Disco_Volante_Profile.png
 
tinerj said:
A lot of things I don't understand about passenger airlines. How many times on these "air disaster" to they say that the pilot asked a cabin attendant to shine a flashlight out a passenger window to see if there is anything coming from the engine.

A plane should have dozens of the little button video cameras the pilots could call up to check nose gear, landing gear, one pointed to each engine, etc.

And as others say, why don't they transmit to a satellite their location at short, periodic intervals.

Some will say the instruments tell the pilots all they need to know. Then why do they fly slow pass a tower to see if they can see what is wrong, or ask a cabin attendant to check on something outside the plane.
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All that stuff costs money, increases weight, which decreases one ability to make money in a business that already has basically no margin to begin with.
 
Norman said:
I did not say it was in Pakistan. I said it was a possibility. It did have enough fuel to get there.
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If it was in Pakistan, it would not have landed at a major city like Karachi where everybody could see it.

There are some pretty large runways capable of landing a 777, isolated and way out in the boondocks of far southwest Pakistan along the coast... Ormara, Pasni, Gwadar... and in the southeast of Iran, one called Chah Bahar. Look at them on Google Earth. Probably within reach of the fuel on board the missing plane.

Do you think we've got spy satellites watching those 24/7/365 monitoring them for any and all activity?
 
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Somalia might be too far, for the fuel on board.

Here's a circle of radius 2200 NM around the last known position, which is pretty much the same distance as to the intended destination of Beijing. To the west it gets you to the India-Pakistan border. To the north it gets you to the China-Mongolia border. To the south-east parts of Australia. But nowhere close to Africa. Unless it had a lot more fuel. Boeing's website says the 737-300 has a maximum range of 6005 NM.

140313_FT_MalaysiaFlight.png.CROP.promo-mediumlarge.png
 
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flyingcheesehead said:
No, we weren't - We only tried after three had hit, and we still got caught with our pants down: The pair of F-16's sent after Flight 93 were unarmed. One was going to try to crash into the cockpit, the other was going to try to crash into a wing/engine.
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I think Jesse was referring to our threat/warning status as the initial dust was settling. There is no doubt that we were unprepared to do much while the attack was in progress.

As someone who stood watch in CIC of a DDG that got underway 2 hrs after the first tower fell, I can say that we most definitely were ready and prepared to shoot one down.
 
Fearless Tower said:
I think Jesse was referring to our threat/warning status as the initial dust was settling. There is no doubt that we were unprepared to do much while the attack was in progress.

As someone who stood watch in CIC of a DDG that got underway 2 hrs after the first tower fell, I can say that we most definitely were ready and prepared to shoot one down.
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Agree, but at this point the bad guys are well aware that we will shoot it down.
 
EdFred said:
If the engines were transmitting signals to satellites, can't they just triangulate based on when each satellite received the signal? Or does it only transmit to a single satellite when it comes into view?
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Depends on how accurately and to what precision each satellite recorded the signal time of arrival. They may not log the time the first energy from the packet arrives, either...just the time the entire message was demodulated. Need VERY precise timing for geolocation.

Haven't seen any details on how the system works...interesting setup, when (apparently) the aircraft can transmit any time it wants, from anywhere around the world, and a satellite will receive it, whether the aircraft owner has paid for satellite time or not. That's...an interesting scheduling problem.

Ron Wanttaja
 
Fearless Tower said:
Has anyone seen a report of how much actual fuel was onboard?
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Given the amount of misinformation so far, I wouldn't trust any numbers that are given (other than to say it had enough to get to Beijing plus reserves). MH might well not know if the crew had extra fuel added before takeoff (highly unlikely, but worth pointing out).

The latest theory to bubble up in the news media is the possibility that some passenger hacked the entertainment system and took control of the flight deck.

http://www.wtop.com/807/3581458/777-hacking-concerns-suggest-foul-play
 
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