Lotta building done today

[SkyHog]

Today was a blast! I got frustrated a lot, but in the end, I'm really satisfied with the outcome. For those that were in flashchat during the frustration, you'll understand why I feel so good now.

I started by placing all the vertical members between the top and bottom longerons. This was not really easy, as I had to file off the bottom to fit the curve of the longeron. The plans say "anything less than a 90% face mate is not acceptable." Its pretty easy to file off too much, so I produced some mistakes today. Luckily, the mistakes were on the longer pieces, so I was able to cut them down and use them elsewhere for the most part.

The big problem came from the cross members. The angle I needed to cut out of the end was not achievable on my miter saw, at least in my mind it wasn't. Mark spent a great deal of time trying to explaint to me how to cut such a deep angle but it never really clicked in my head.

What I wound up doing was buying a jigsaw (there were not tablesaws to be found at any of the hardware stores I tried in Lake Havasu City). So I'd jig the angle and then shape it with my wood file to make it nice and smooth. I'm really happy with the way it turned out and might do more angle cuts this way.

With as many mistakes I made today, and as many times as I had to redo stuff, I'm sure I'm gonna be short on wood when I get further along, so I'll need to re-inventory and order what I'll be short on. Good news is that I got this part pretty damn near perfect. Next up is to fill the angles with gussets and then glue into place.

So now I gotta find a way to slide wax paper underneath the frame so it doesn't stick to the table....I have no idea how I'm gonna do that as the entire frame is pretty much locked down to the table...

Glue day tomorrow! Did 9 hours today.

 

[JasonCT]

Great job Nick! - Now go update that builders website!

 

[Henning]

So now I gotta find a way to slide wax paper underneath the frame so it doesn't stick to the table....I have no idea how I'm gonna do that as the entire frame is pretty much locked down to the table...

Glue day tomorrow! Did 9 hours today.

Excellent progress Nick, as to the above, eesssh, probably be best off to go ahead and clear the table, cover, and place the parts again. I know it sucks, but having the parts stuck to the table will suck worse. You may also consider getting some PVA (Poly Vinyl Alchohol) and coating the table. It's a great release agent.

 

[John Recine]

Nick,

Great progress, impressive start! The way I did it was to use plastic at every glue joint in the jig. I have no practical suggestion for sliding it under after the fact. One of those things to consider during the layout and dry fit phase

Glad to see you found a suitable alternative to your table saw issue, good job man keep on sticking!

John

 

[ScottM]

Very neat Nick. Have established a project goal list for yourself or are you just working on it as you have time?

 

[Chache]

Great work Nick!

Now you know why it is suggested , that a new builder
should start with an empannage part....,
and find out all the "sticky" ( pun intended ) parts, before tackling major components.

A whole lot less work to "do over"....

Another way to prepare the table, is to shellac it, (cheap..)
and then use a few coats of a good paste wax.
Easily done in under two hours.
Rewax, after every couple of component parts, say .....after doing the empannage,
then after doing all the fuse, and after every 3 or 4 wing ribs, Coat the jig pieces too,
using a small paint brush, and when it dries, just buff with a "Shoe Brush".

http://www.ehow.com/buy_10663_paste-wax.html

Ive used all of them, and like "Butchers, Minwax, and Johnsons.
Prefer "Butchers Diamond wax" the most.

Quick, easy and cheap. For under twenty bucks, you have enough
shellac and wax, for the entire project........
....and can still wax all your wood floors for the next three years....

That's what I did, on some boat parts, needing to be epoxied, & for making small replacement molds,
and I also, used it in my business at the time.
I was a antique furniture restorer, and worked on very expensive,
one of a kind, nonreplaceable items.

Anyway.... Good work, so keep it up!!

 

[Tom-D]

Any where you have a glue joint place plane ol wax paper between the aircraft part and the bench.

Your west system Epoxy is a great glue made for Marine use, but will work a tiny bit better if you add West system micro fiber to the mix, this will make the glue stiffer and will not allow a dry joint.

always wet the joint with glue that has no micro fiber then mix in the microfiber and fit the joint together and wipe up excess.

after the frame work sets up and you want to put the skin on cut the skin a little bit big 1/4 " and trim to fit with a laminate trimmer and a carbide bit with roller bearing guide.

I'll place a picture if you like.

Tom D.

 

[SkyHog]

The Epoxy I'm using is T-88. For some reason, it is the opinion of near every KR builder that T-88 is the stuff to use, and all else is crap. I have no clue why, but I figure if that many KRs are flying with it, I'm not gonna mess with success, I guess.

I've never played with a 2-part epoxy before, so that's gonna be the first thing I do today, is make some test glues with old scrap wood.

 

[SkyHog]

Very neat Nick. Have established a project goal list for yourself or are you just working on it as you have time?

I'm just working on it as I have time. I don't want to give myself deadlines or I'll start rushing.

That said - I hope to be done in about 1.5 years.

 

[John Recine]

I am using the west system epoxy, that stuff is great. The run out form the joints was a little bit of a problem in the past but I got the microbaloons for it to stiffen it up a bit. It also makes a great paste for repairing small blemishes in the wood that have no structural impact however unslghtly, its liks bondo for wood and you just cant beat the pump dispensing system. That really adds consistancy to the mix and ensures a good reliable pot life, takes a lot of the measuring and guessing out. It sets nice too the color is about the same as beer so no real dark glue joints either.

I am really impressed with the west systems epoxy!

John

 

[redcloud]

Pretty impressive , Nick. Keep up the good work and keep getting pics so we can enjoy your work vicariously.

 

[Tom-D]

I am using the west system epoxy, that stuff is great. The run out form the joints was a little bit of a problem in the past but I got the microbaloons for it to stiffen it up a bit. It also makes a great paste for repairing small blemishes in the wood that have no structural impact however unslghtly, its liks bondo for wood and you just cant beat the pump dispensing system. That really adds consistancy to the mix and ensures a good reliable pot life, takes a lot of the measuring and guessing out. It sets nice too the color is about the same as beer so no real dark glue joints either.

I am really impressed with the west systems epoxy!

John

My advise is don't use microbaloons, they are glass balls, epoxy does not stick well to glass, Microfibers are just that fibers, and will add strength to the joint, glass balls will not

 

[Tom-D]

The Epoxy I'm using is T-88. For some reason, it is the opinion of near every KR builder that T-88 is the stuff to use, and all else is crap. I have no clue why, but I figure if that many KRs are flying with it, I'm not gonna mess with success, I guess.

I've never played with a 2-part epoxy before, so that's gonna be the first thing I do today, is make some test glues with old scrap wood.

T88 and West system and several others are all the same generic chemicals in different mix ratios, some are a 50/50 mix and others are 3 to 2 ratios, some are fast cure and others are slow cure, and some are known as cold cures, that is dependant upon the catalyst amount used in the ratio.

The FAA does not like the new epoxys because of the lack of testing on certified aircraft, but the AC 43,13 mentions epoxy as an approved glue, the brand name is not given.

My testing has shown the thinner the glue base the better the bond to wood, but the thinner the glue the more it runs out of the joint, so we thicken the glue with microfibers, but any time you use a thicken glue, you must first wet the joint surfaces to get a better bond, because epoxy does not penetrate the wood very well when thickened.

The biggest issue with epoxy is most folks will clamp the joint too tight, and squeez out all the epoxy, This has proven many time to weaken the joint.

Always leave glue in the joint

Tom D

 

[Henning]

The Epoxy I'm using is T-88. For some reason, it is the opinion of near every KR builder that T-88 is the stuff to use, and all else is crap.

There are count them 2, yes 2 manufacturers of epoxy resin in the world, Shell and another that I forget the name of. All the marketers of resin buy from one of them. T-88 is good stuff, but as Tom indicated, you really want to use some filler material and make some bog, especially if you have not so tight fitting joints that dont have strong clamping pressure. Whether that filler comes from Gudgeon Bros (West System) or not doesn't matter. West System stuff is easily available from West Marine (unrelated) and other boat stores though. Cotton Flocking works as well.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

So now I gotta find a way to slide wax paper underneath the frame so it doesn't stick to the table....I have no idea how I'm gonna do that as the entire frame is pretty much locked down to the table...

Hey, it's an experimental... You could just incorporate the table into the plane and build another table! Imagine the structural integrity benefits of having a table glued into your plane!

 

[John Recine]

My advise is don't use microbaloons, they are glass balls, epoxy does not stick well to glass, Microfibers are just that fibers, and will add strength to the joint, glass balls will not

Hey Tom,

Thanks for the advice, I am off to West Marine today for the microfiber for my epoxy. Anything that will make my Piet stronger and the best I can build is always of great interest to me.

Thanks again

John

 

[Henning]

The FAA does not like the new epoxys because of the lack of testing on certified aircraft, but the AC 43,13 mentions epoxy as an approved glue, the brand name is not given.

Epoxy has it's problems as well, especially with acidic woods. You don't use epoxy with oak..., as well as some moisture issues. I know, they build boats with the stuff... still, first thing Gudgeon Bros will tell you is that epoxy is NOT waterproof. The only waterproof glues out there are the urea-formaldahyde glues like Resourcinol. Problem with those glues is you need very well fit surfaces and high clamping pressures to make it work well. As opposed to epoxy where you want to leave some material in the joint, with the u-f glues, less is better. All in all, for the amateur builder with minimal equipment, epoxy is the better choice for most of the applications even if it does add some extra weight.