Lost Procedures

[EdFred]

Commonplace? It was two years after I learned to fly that President Reagan agreed to let civilians use what had been up to then a military-only project. The first aviation units came out about 1992, I got to play with a couple (A trimble something or other and a Garmin 100) when flying up to Oshkosh and back with Paul Bertorelli.

I bought my first GPS in 1994. I had borrowed an Apollo handheld from one of my wife's instructors other students. Gary, I said, Buzz won't let you use that thing while you're a student, so let me borrow it when I fly to Oshkosh.

Margy's instructor had a no-GPS policy for primary students. Amusingly, the plane Margy was using had an old clunk Rho-Theta RNAV in it. I had taught Margy how to enter the coordinates from the old Brown Airguide books into the thing and use it to find the airport. When Buzz caught her doing that he made a general "No RNAV rule."

Good for you. I didn't see a GPS or RNAV, or anything besides VOR/ADF/DME in a plane until 2004.

 

[Tantalum]

Commonplace

I mean, from 2000-2008 the planes I was renting (the mighty PA-28!) didn't have any kind of GPS. Later they started getting old UND planes that a 430.. which was (to me) seriously high-tech

 

[midlifeflyer]

Not to sound like an idiot.. but are we assuming a complete electrical failure too?

I don't know anyone flying without some kind of GPS, either in the plane or on a tablet

Not diminishing the value of climbing and confessing and all that.. but the use of a GPS shouldn't be villified

Having said that, I learned to fly before GPS was commonplace in planes, and an easy out was to fly east and hit the ocean then go north or south until you recognize something

The lost procedure scenario necessarily involves a lack of ability to determine position by navigation equipment.

 

[Matthew]

The lost procedure scenario necessarily involves a lack of ability to determine position by navigation equipment.

Back to using a map, compass, and watch. The very things that make too many students say, “Why do I need to know this stuff?”

 

[Maxnr]

So you flew the ILS and he followed you using visual contact?

Bingo. The intercept was solid on top over AL. Requested CSG wx and a vector for the ILS. They were reporting clearing but still IFR. Had some ground contact at LOC intercept. Ground was visible on the approach at 1,000. Vis about a mile. My crew chief reported that he was still tucked in. We landed long and taxied back to follow him to parking. The pilot's abilities were unk until he stepped down. He was in an Army uniform, likely enroute Florida to Dobbins AFB for a weekend Nat Guard drill. We could have changed uniforms. He was my rank and a Medical Service Corps Aviator with a star on his wings. (Star denotes a mother in flight school.) I was then not surprised that he made it look so easy. A piece of cake.

 

[luvflyin]

When all of the above doesn't work, go old school and use an old, old defunct procedure. Fly a triangle with 120 deg turns & one minute legs. Back when I was a military pilot, I was dispatched by Approach to intercept a NORDO aircraft on top. Did it. He joined up on me and we did an ILS together. Done deal. Alt inop.
That procedure had been dropped from AIM years prior. I was surprised that someone in ATC still remembered it. BTW, I knew that controller to be a retired USAF fighter pilot. Just saying. Try everything.

I wouldn't bet a nickel that would work today regardless of the odds you'd give. But while were on the subject, you'd make those turns to the left. Unless you still had a receiver and then it's right triangles. What were you flying? How long was the runway?

 

[Maxnr]

I wouldn't bet a nickel that would work today regardless of the odds you'd give. But while were on the subject, you'd make those turns to the left. Unless you still had a receiver and then it's right triangles. What were you flying? How long was the runway?

It was long obsolete when it happened & dropped from AIM decades before. Thanks to an old school ATC controller with a long memory, It came into play. How would you have handled it? As the pilot of the NORDO a/c? As the pilot of the intercepting a/c? As the ATC controller? Shucks! Just give up and run the tanks dry.

 

[MauleSkinner]

How would you have handled it? As the pilot of the NORDO a/c?

Not knowing the procedure existed, And especially knowing that MVFR existed below the clouds, I’d point into wind away from known congested areas/high terrain, and make a slow, stable descent through the clouds.

And thrown out a couple of prayers for good measure.

 

[luvflyin]

It was long obsolete when it happened & dropped from AIM decades before. Thanks to an old school ATC controller with a long memory, It came into play. How would you have handled it? As the pilot of the NORDO a/c? As the pilot of the intercepting a/c? As the ATC controller? Shucks! Just give up and run the tanks dry.

Cool story, and I think you all did a great job. Sorry if it sounded like I was thinking you should have done something different. I wasn't. Me, I doubt if I would have joined up and flew formation with you into the goo. I do not have the experience to do that. Woulda been safer for me to just descend into it and plan to do a really great off airport landing that I walked away from.

 

[Maxnr]

Thanks for chiming in, Luvflyin. More info: Had just reported for duty at 0700 on Saturday @ Lawson AAF (KLSF). Wx was pea soup w/ vis in yards. LSF was built back in the biplane era, 20's or 30's. Built on the flats along the Chattahoochie river. Fog almost always guarantied. My Med Evac unit had a red phone direct w/CSG APC and it rang with the info. We had a canned procedure: Get ATC release via twr. Set the discreet xpndr code. Depart our ramp 270 deg to 2,000. GCA was on 1 hr call & we requested it so to get home. GCA has lower mins than Loc. UH-1H has 2.8 hr fuel. Fog usually lifts by 0900. We were authorized zero/zero departures with my Spec inst quals. Co-pilot had same quals. Radar contact about 1,500 with a five deg R vector/range 25 miles. Broke out on top about 2,000. Solid deck. Spotted a flash of reflected sunlight at about 10 mi. Joined up and hand signaled to follow me. Got a thumbs up. Requested CSG wx. Not great. Obscured & half mile vis. Requested vector for ILS 06 at CSG. Distance about 30/35 NM. On descent had about 1 mi vis and ground contact about 1,000. Crew Chief reported he was still with us. Landed w/ 1,000 obsc & 1 mile vis. Yesterday's heat from the urban area likely helped lift the fog.

This info from the Mission report form that I copied & kept.

As for setting up a slow desc through the soup: You be the judge. Get the ATL sectional and plot 275 deg/25 NM from LSF. It plots about 5 E of Motun field, home of the Tuskeegee Airmen and 8 or 10 S of Auburn U's Stadium. This area is mostly farms and forests. You get into hilly terrain in the Pine MTN area N of CSG.

 

[thito01]

See any small airport? Land at airport.