[Lost Comms] SLUGG7 and Landing at KDTO

[Clip4]

Huh? I agree about only using emergency authority to the required extent to meet the emergency, but in this scenario I haven't even declared it was an emergency for me and don't think the OP specified one either. Carswell to PINCK is virtually the same route as LIKES to PINCK, so unless it's VFR that's how I'd go. I think the FAA would commend me, not violate me.

dtuuri

You cannot ID PINCK using that radial, so why exactly are you doing this?

 

[dtuuri]

You cannot ID PINCK using that radial, so why exactly are you doing this?

Because it's an LOM. You only need to get within 15 nm to home in on it.

dtuuri

 

[Clip4]

Because it's an LOM. You only need to get within 15 nm to home in on it.

dtuuri

Pretty hard to miss a 30 nm wide target from 46 nm away.

 

[dtuuri]

Pretty hard to miss a 30 nm wide target from 46 nm away.

Pretty important to stay on the prescribed route, too, when you can. Using a plotter hasn't become a lost art has it?

dtuuri

 

[Clip4]

Pretty important to stay on the prescribed route, too, when you can. Using a plotter hasn't become a lost art has it?

dtuuri

Hopefully neither is intercepting a radial. You could just draw and intercept the radial if you want the extra accuracy and stay on the prescriped route. There is no need to go to Carswell.

 

[dtuuri]

You could just draw and intercept the radial if you want the extra accuracy and stay on the prescriped route. There is no need to go to Carswell.

A radial from which VOR? If you have to "intercept" it, it isn't on your direct route.

dtuuri

 

[Clip4]

A radial from which VOR? If you have to "intercept" it, it isn't on your direct route.

dtuuri

YOU SAID, "Carswell Field is almost directly enroute, so I'd go there (108.7) and measure a radial". so what radial are you using? What ever it is you are using from Carswell to Pinck, you can intercept it enroute to Pinck without turning the plane to overfly Carswell.

 

[dtuuri]

What ever it is you are using from Carswell to Pinck, you can intercept it enroute to Pinck without turning the plane to overfly Carswell.

Without RNAV, you'd be dead reckoning. By going direct to NFW (108.7) you have instantaneous tracking information, so a better way.

dtuuri

 

[Clip4]

Without RNAV, you'd be dead reckoning. By going direct to NFW (108.7) you have instantaneous tracking information, so a better way.

dtuuri

Ok if you got the chart out drawing courses and have to drive to first NFW to get go ahead.

 

[dtuuri]

Ok if you got the chart out drawing courses and have to drive to first NFW to get go ahead.

I never mentioned "drawing courses"; though it would be easy enough to do, you suggested it:

Hopefully neither is intercepting a radial. You could just draw and intercept the radial if you want the extra accuracy and stay on the prescriped route. There is no need to go to Carswell.

As you accurately quoted me, I said I'd "measure a radial", which is even easier:

YOU SAID, "Carswell Field is almost directly enroute, so I'd go there (108.7) and measure a radial".

The difference in distance by overflying NFW is only a tenth of a nautical mile farther than going direct, but the difference in track is about 7 degrees according to Skyvector. Why anyone wouldn't dial in NFW, center the needle and measure the outbound course to PINCK is beyond me. At 13 nm, NFW is less than 1+3/4 nm from the centerline of a direct route from LIKES to PINCK. Since it's a VOR your position is accurately determined.

I may be slow, but I think you're just toyin' with me.

dtuuri

 

[Clip4]

I never mentioned "drawing courses"; though it would be easy enough to do, you suggested it:

​

As you accurately quoted me, I said I'd "measure a radial", which is even easier:

​

The difference in distance by overflying NFW is only a tenth of a nautical mile farther than going direct, but the difference in track is about 7 degrees according to Skyvector. Why anyone wouldn't dial in NFW, center the needle and measure the outbound course to PINCK is beyond me. At 13 nm, NFW is less than 1+3/4 nm from the centerline of a direct route from LIKES to PINCK. Since it's a VOR your position is accurately determined.

I may be slow, but I think you're just toyin' with me.

dtuuri

I was just trained when " Dead reckoning appropriate to IFR navigation" was required by part 61 for instrument rating and you thought you was in high cotton if you had a DME.

Today you trained dead reckoning appropriate to IFR using naviagation systems, which isn't dead reckoning at all.

 

[dtuuri]

I was just trained when " Dead reckoning appropriate to IFR navigation" was required by part 61 for instrument rating and you thought you was in high cotton if you had a DME.

Today you trained dead reckoning appropriate to IFR using naviagation systems, which isn't dead reckoning at all.

Well, sir, you got me. "Dead reckoning appropriate to IFR navigation" sounded reasonable and familiar enough that I dove into my archives wondering where I may have seen it. Not saying you're wrong, but I couldn't find it. I looked in Part 61 for 1965, 1969 and 1980. I even looked in CAR Part 20 from 1961. Then I looked in the 1976 Instrument Flight Test Guide and a PTS from the late 1980s and from 2010, with no luck at all. Maybe I skimmed too fast? Went too far back? Your ball, I give up.

It makes sense for certain airway segments that are out of range of both VORs and some terminal route segments too, but opting to hold a heading over positive course guidance isn't too smart, IMO.

dtuuri

 

[luvflyin]

There's no 'proper' procedure for this if you had no /G capability. Since ADF is required and PINCK is a 15 NM range LOM, you'd need to improvise. Carswell Field is almost directly enroute, so I'd go there (108.7) and measure a radial outbound to PINCK with your plotter.

dtuuri

You have TACAN????

 

[dtuuri]

You have TACAN????

Hoo boy <gulps>. Excellent catch there, luvflyin! With the zoom level I was using, Skyvector had the TACAN symbol totally obscured by the airport green dot. I never noticed the parentheses around the frequency either. Sticking up above it all was the mag north flag, so I jumped to a conclusion it was a Terminal VOR. Sorry, Clip4. Carry on... I shoulda known better.

dtuuri

 

[hotprops]

if you were really in heavy clag and were you belong .once you squawk 7600 you own the airspace down to the fixed distance marker just fly, its there problem. how do both coms go tu ?

 

[dtuuri]

if you were really in heavy clag and were you belong .once you squawk 7600 you own the airspace down to the fixed distance marker just fly, its there problem.

Wherever did you get that wrong idea?

how do both coms go tu ?

How? When some farmer plows through the fiber optics cable serving TRACON for one way:

"Twenty air-traffic control centers were downed by a fiber-optic cable inadvertently cut by a farmer burying his cow (4 May 1991). The Kansas City ATC was brought down by a beaver-chewed cable (1990); other outages were due to lightning strikes, misplaced backhoe buckets, blown fuses, and various computer problems, as well as a 3-hour outage and airport delays in Boston that resulted from unmarked electronic components being switched. The AT&T outage of 17 September 1991 blocked 5 million calls and crippled air travel with 1,174 flights cancelled or delayed. Many such cases have been recorded. (Much greater recognition is needed of the intricate ways in which air-traffic control depends on the power and telecommunication infrastructures." http://www.csl.sri.com/users/neumann/air.html
​

dtuuri

 

[Clip4]

if you were really in heavy clag and were you belong .once you squawk 7600 you own the airspace down to the fixed distance marker just fly, its there problem. how do both coms go tu ?

Malfunction in the audio panel, a shorted out PTT.

 

[Clip4]

Well, sir, you got me. "Dead reckoning appropriate to IFR navigation" sounded reasonable and familiar enough that I dove into my archives wondering where I may have seen it. Not saying you're wrong, but I couldn't find it. I looked in Part 61 for 1965, 1969 and 1980. I even looked in CAR Part 20 from 1961. Then I looked in the 1976 Instrument Flight Test Guide and a PTS from the late 1980s and from 2010, with no luck at all. Maybe I skimmed too fast? Went too far back? Your ball, I give up.

It makes sense for certain airway segments that are out of range of both VORs and some terminal route segments too, but opting to hold a heading over positive course guidance isn't too smart, IMO.

dtuuri

Not that long ago. https://ntl.bts.gov/lib/1000/1000/1027/ac61-119.
Even a Garmin has a DR mode.

 

[dtuuri]

Thank you. It's in the 1980 version of Part 61 I still have. Missed it the first time.

dtuuri

 

[Palmpilot]

...how do both coms go tu ?

An audio panel failure could do the job.

 

[Palmpilot]

Malfunction in the audio panel, a shorted out PTT.

I actually had a shorted PTT once. Eventually, I figured out that I could restore receive functionality by turning the transmitter-select knob to the TEL channel (which had no radio connected to it) and pressing the separate receive button for the radio I wanted to listen to. Then I was able to restore two-way com by using the transmit knob as a substitute for the PTT button.