Lost comm on extended downwind in Class D - best course of action

thebruce

thebruce

Pre-takeoff checklist
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the Bruce
Flying out of my local airport with the intent to do some pattern work (refamiliarizing myself with the PA-28 after flying a 172 lately), I took off, attained pattern altitude, received the call "extend your downwind, tower will call your base, #2 for landing" and I was suddenly unable to transmit. I maintained pattern altitude and then lost all electronics before I could confirm tower heard my report of a communications malfunction or the acknowledgement of being #2. I continued to troubleshoot on an extended downwind, with no luck.

The airplane was flying great, and other than being a busy day in our class D (jets and props) with no comm, things were swell. As I saw it I had two choices: try to get an eye on the aircraft that was #1 (it was likely over the threshold or had landed by this point), turn base and land; or climb out of the airspace (top of the Delta is only 1300' above pattern altitude), continue to troubleshoot, and and if no luck go land at the uncontrolled field a few miles away.

I chose to climb and exit, and after I couldn't get the electronics working again, landed uneventfully. I'm happy with the decision I made, and although it was frustrating, there wasn't any real drama to the entire procedure. I had a great view of aircraft arriving and departing the uncontrolled field as I approached on the 45, and I would be very comfortable doing a no comm landing there again if necessary. I did not like the idea of climbing out of the Delta without ATC approval, but it was a crystal clear day and I was away from the usual approaches as I did so.

Any thoughts or considerations from board?
 
I think he said he "lost all electronics." Good luck squawking 7600 (or anything else).

He did the right thing by climbing out of the pattern and landing at a non-towered airport. After landing, I'd have called the Class D tower and explained what had happened.
 
I would have just continued and watched for a light gun signal. Maybe, if time permitted, a telephone call to the tower would have been helpful. They could have given you your landing clearance over the phone. BTDT.
 
If you spotted #1, make your base turn when the interval looks reasonable; once you stopped talking, tower would figure it out, handle as appropriate anyone coming in as "#3". Land, take the first exit you can, park and give tower a call. If you couldn't spot #1, departing sounds reasonable, downwind in a climb, so tower doesn't have to guess where you went, assuming no radar - xpndr going dark would be a clue for 'em, otherwise.

You don't need approval, you need clearance, which aren't necessarily identical, hence the occasional "unable" - I didn't look at a single FAR before responding to your post, and the parsers may have other opinions. I'd pay attention to any poster who was/is a tower guy, and ignore the rest. In my unlearned opinion, you didn't mess up, just that your tower would probably have handled your silence without any issue, if you had chosen to stay in the pattern and land.
 
FWIW, airport control tower phone numbers are on https://acukwik.com/.

Just enter the airport identifier in the "Search" field, then scroll down to "Airport Restrictions and Information."

Here's Livermore (KLVK)

AC-U-KWIK%20LVK%20Tower%20Phone%20Number_zps1sk0s8fo.jpg
 
Tower should know when you your transponder goes away that something happened. They also know what you expect to do.

If your home field, look for #1 and light gun signals. But land and call when you can. If not your home field climb out and get out of the way.
 
If you don't have a handheld , if you circle a bit you will get a light gun. Then land and call to tower to explain. BTDT as a student pilot with a defective radio TX at KITH. The tower folks were both helpful and understanding.
 
The procedure a my home airport, Class D, is to continue in and fly a normal pattern while watching for the light gun. It should be a non event. It happened to me on a checkride. At first I thought it was a test. It turned out to be a good lesson.
 
I to would have landed there at the original airport. Exactly how would depend on what was happening at the time. Lots of good input input above. Did you have #1 in sight, etc etc. Going to the other airport I’m not seeing as a good idea unless something was happening there at D that dictated getting out of there was wise. The Tower already knows you are there. Once they realize you are NORDO they will work around it. Going to the other airport just extends your time in the air and increases your exposure to possible conflicts. Over there you don’t have someone who has the whole picture(Tower) and is communicating with everyone else to make it work. I think I might have turned base, then to upwind staying at pattern altitude. I’d have done it ‘inside.’ Left side of runway if left traffic, right side if right traffic. Flash landing lights, rock wings and look for light signals.
 
Why go to an untowered airport? Its still a very good idea to have working coms at an untowered airport. And you were already established in the pattern.
 
Hang 4 said:
Transponder to 7600 and land at the class D?
Click to expand...

You do realize that most Class D towers do not have radar and will not see your 7600.

Maintain visual separation in the pattern, rock your wings and wait on light gun.
 
I'm wondering how often controller's actually use the light gun? Is using the light gun use normally practiced by a controller? Were is it located in the tower? Do they need to raise the sun screen if down to be seen effectively by the pilot it is directed to?

Just wondering..:)
 
AKBill said:
I'm wondering how often controller's actually use the light gun? Is using the light gun use normally practiced by a controller? Were is it located in the tower? Do they need to raise the sun screen if down to be seen effectively by the pilot it is directed to?

Just wondering..:)
Click to expand...

Not practiced often, if at all, when I did the job. It’s anchored from the ceiling, and probably would raise the screen if down. Used it a few times.
 
Fly the pattern, head on a swivel and look for the signal. I had an alternator failure in college in a rental warrior and just came up initial wing rocking and turning crosswind once clear of other traffic. By the time I was turning base he was pointing a green light at me. Ditto for the taxi back. Non event.
 
AKBill said:
I'm wondering how often controller's actually use the light gun? Is using the light gun use normally practiced by a controller? Were is it located in the tower? Do they need to raise the sun screen if down to be seen effectively by the pilot it is directed to?

Just wondering..:)
Click to expand...
My sleepy Class C tower would use it semi-often....cuz we ask them to practice with it. . I think they enjoy it.
 
Cirrus drivers and trainers recommend pulling the chute.
 
thebruce said:
Flying out of my local airport with the intent to do some pattern work (refamiliarizing myself with the PA-28 after flying a 172 lately), I took off, attained pattern altitude, received the call "extend your downwind, tower will call your base, #2 for landing" and I was suddenly unable to transmit. I maintained pattern altitude and then lost all electronics before I could confirm tower heard my report of a communications malfunction or the acknowledgement of being #2. I continued to troubleshoot on an extended downwind, with no luck.

The airplane was flying great, and other than being a busy day in our class D (jets and props) with no comm, things were swell. As I saw it I had two choices: try to get an eye on the aircraft that was #1 (it was likely over the threshold or had landed by this point), turn base and land; or climb out of the airspace (top of the Delta is only 1300' above pattern altitude), continue to troubleshoot, and and if no luck go land at the uncontrolled field a few miles away.

I chose to climb and exit, and after I couldn't get the electronics working again, landed uneventfully. I'm happy with the decision I made, and although it was frustrating, there wasn't any real drama to the entire procedure. I had a great view of aircraft arriving and departing the uncontrolled field as I approached on the 45, and I would be very comfortable doing a no comm landing there again if necessary. I did not like the idea of climbing out of the Delta without ATC approval, but it was a crystal clear day and I was away from the usual approaches as I did so.

Any thoughts or considerations from board?
Click to expand...
Good job!
A handheld radio is a great backup!
I lost all electrical power just as I was cleared to turn final at Love field in Dallas. I grabbed my handheld radio to respond.

I also lost comm. in route to Kansas City. I was low enough to call the tower on my cell phone. The tower guy was great. He stayed on the phone with me and cleared me to land.
 
I brought up this thread at brunch today (all local pilots) and both of the airline pilots (retired UAL 747-400 captain and currently flying UAL 777 F.O.) said they'd been cleared to land, so that's what they would do. I mentioned the SFO incident where Air Canada 781 was cleared to land 28R, acknowledged, then apparently switched to ground and didn't hear multiple requests by tower to go around because SWA 3117 hadn't cleared the runway. Oops.

 
If you've never seen it, have the tower give you a green light for practice. Those things are bright.
 
Stan Cooper said:
I brought up this thread at brunch today (all local pilots) and both of the airline pilots (retired UAL 747-400 captain and currently flying UAL 777 F.O.) said they'd been cleared to land, so that's what they would do. I mentioned the SFO incident where Air Canada 781 was cleared to land 28R, acknowledged, then apparently switched to ground and didn't hear multiple requests by tower to go around because SWA 3117 hadn't cleared the runway. Oops.

Click to expand...

When I flew out of ATL the Atlanta controllers made periodic visits to our crew room. They always stated they expected you to land, even if you forgot to check in. Going around they didn’t want you to do as they would have to resequence you back in the arrival pattern.
 
Thanks for all the discussion. I thought it was just a radio failure until I tried to change squawk and watched the transponder go dark. And I looked over my shoulder for a light gun briefly and thought about turning base to see if I'd get one, but having no idea where the next aircraft in sequence was I decided against it. I see a handheld backup in my future. And I have added the tower phone number to my phone. I left a message at the end of the day but have not received a call back.
 
thebruce said:
Thanks for all the discussion. I thought it was just a radio failure until I tried to change squawk and watched the transponder go dark. And I looked over my shoulder for a light gun briefly and thought about turning base to see if I'd get one, but having no idea where the next aircraft in sequence was I decided against it. I see a handheld backup in my future. And I have added the tower phone number to my phone. I left a message at the end of the day but have not received a call back.
Click to expand...
Don't sweat it too much - you made a decent call, looked to do right by other traffic and the tower. And it worked, so it's all good.
 
This happened to me on one of my first solo flights back into the KSYR class C. Got to use light signals (and for taxi as well). I was pretty psyched actually since I had just memorized all of that and felt reasonably secure in that they had me on radar already (although no transponder once things went south). At a class D (a busy one anyway) I'd have done what the OP did and bugged out to someplace else.
 
AKBill said:
I'm wondering how often controller's actually use the light gun? Is using the light gun use normally practiced by a controller? Were is it located in the tower? Do they need to raise the sun screen if down to be seen effectively by the pilot it is directed to?

Just wondering..:)
Click to expand...

See below ...

jkaduk said:
If you've never seen it, have the tower give you a green light for practice. Those things are bright.
Click to expand...

Not sure if it has changed or been corrected. During training at El Paso (KELP) back in 2006 we requested "light gun simulation". They have/had screens AND tint. Every flash looked white at noon mid day, even with screens lifted ...they asked us to move in so close to the tower we were DEFINITELY twice as close as Maverick and had to "balloon out" to 180 back to the runway for the TNG's (we were being signaled on downwind for 26L which the sun was hitting that side of the tower). Every single controller wanted a crack including the supervisor ... we were in the pattern there for an hour.

Last year I called by phone prior to flying and indicated I was coming in for avionics work with the potential of becoming NORDO on the way in ... they asked for me to wait for 2pm (slow time) and keep tower number on the phone, and to call prior to take off from my field. They cleared me to land and parking from about 10 miles out ... luckily didn't have an issue. They did not want to use light gun signals ...
 
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