mtuomi
En-Route
Not sure yet what failed. They are replacing the governor tomorrow. Not sure where the oil went either. Mechanic will tell tomorrow.
Anyone know any bars in Lafkin, TX?
Lost a prop governor in-flight today...
- Thread starter mtuomi
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Not sure yet what failed. They are replacing the governor tomorrow. Not sure where the oil went either. Mechanic will tell tomorrow.
Anyone know any bars in Lafkin, TX?
mtuomi
En-Route
It worked on a couple of ground tests but a fast taxi returned it back to dead and now even stationary prop pulls dont do a thing.
mkosmo
Pattern Altitude
I've heard good things about Bubba T's out there.
charlie
Pre-takeoff checklist
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Charlie
This could also be a front main bearing failure or dislodging the plug at the back of the cavity in the front of the crankshaft but neither would explain where the oil went! I'd send the governor out for a check before I'd pop to replace it. Charlie Melot Zephyr Engines
mtuomi
En-Route
Thank you for the suggestions, would these faults be obvious while changing the governor? It's a rental plane so I don't have much say about how to repair it.
I believe the owner has a spare governor which will be installed tomorrow.
The governor is insignificant. The prop was a "grace of God" event that got you on the ground since you were going to run out of oil before you ran out of fuel. The prop governor saved a catastrophic engine failure.
"Where did the oil go?" That question has to be answered before the plane leaves the ground again.
"Where did the oil go?" That question has to be answered before the plane leaves the ground again.
Criitter7
Pre-takeoff checklist
What drives mags in these engines? If it's the oil pump gears like they do on car engines then there's where I would start... I'm guessing the engine is coming apart oil pumps don't like distributors or mags coming off them at rpm.
No, the drive is quite different.
Criitter7
Pre-takeoff checklist
Have any links or diagrams how it all looks? Haven't dug far enough into one yet
Auto type you refer to typically slots into the bottom of the distributor drive gear which drives off a gear on the cam. The mags drive by a cut gear extended from the crank/cam gear set.
mtuomi
En-Route
I think these are isolated incidents, I did inspect the gear visually and saw nothing to be concerned about. Also the plane still does perfect mag checks. Will know more tomorrow when the mechanic takes a look.
Fun.
Fun.
charlie
Pre-takeoff checklist
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Charlie
These faults would not be obvious in changing the governor. Charlie
mtuomi
En-Route
No, the mags are easily accessible after removing the top cowling.
mtuomi
En-Route
Ok, made it back. Another question.
What would you consider a reasonable deal for the rental.
I made 2 precautionary landings and diversions. they were very reasonable with repairs etc. But I feel like 100pct hobbs billing would be too much for me, I flew and tested the plane for prob 3hrs or so extra.
Im around 400 out of pocket for rental cars and hotel bookings.
Im thinking if I go halves with my losses, and pay for hours I expected to fly.in the first place, that would be fair for all.
What do y'all think?
What would you consider a reasonable deal for the rental.
I made 2 precautionary landings and diversions. they were very reasonable with repairs etc. But I feel like 100pct hobbs billing would be too much for me, I flew and tested the plane for prob 3hrs or so extra.
Im around 400 out of pocket for rental cars and hotel bookings.
Im thinking if I go halves with my losses, and pay for hours I expected to fly.in the first place, that would be fair for all.
What do y'all think?
Last edited:
Scotty78
Pre-takeoff checklist
What do you value your life at? That plane sounds like it's falling apart, I'd stay out of it.
He's not talking about the future, he's talking about settling the bill.
How much value did you get from the flying? Obviously the maintenance flights should be deducted. Can you get half your extra costs? Maybe, worth asking, not really worth suing over.
How much value did you get from the flying? Obviously the maintenance flights should be deducted. Can you get half your extra costs? Maybe, worth asking, not really worth suing over.
Unless he "prepaid" for the trip.... He can just walk and leave the owner with mess....
I am pretty sure the owner doesn't have the balls to sue him either...
JOhnH
Touchdown! Greaser!
That was my idea too.Unless he "prepaid" for the trip.... He can just walk and leave the owner with mess....
I am pretty sure the owner doesn't have the balls to sue him either...
But first I would splain to the owner why I don't think I should have to pay anything, including my expenses. Then see what he counters with. If it isn't satisfactory, then walk.
wilkersk
Pattern Altitude
Holy shazbot! The owner should be paying you ferry pilot rates + expenses for retrieving his aircraft.
StinkBug
Cleared for Takeoff
Think of it this way. You would have been well within reason to simply walk away and leave the plane at the maintenance shop the first time it tried to kill you. It certainly would have been reasonable for you to leave after the second time as well. I would have. Either one of these scenarios would have left it up to the owner to have it ferried home at their expense. You saved them that expense.
mtuomi
En-Route
Yeah didn't prepay anything, I think I got half the value I was hoping for from the trip, missed last 2 cities because of these issues, and the flight back was just an iron butt contest, nothing enjoyable (Houston-South Carolina is a long day in an Arrow...)
Just walking away w/o paying wouldn't be fair for the owner. I'll see what he suggests and go from there, I have a number in mind I'm happy to take, but if he tries to be unreasonable - well, I haven't paid a penny yet...
Just walking away w/o paying wouldn't be fair for the owner. I'll see what he suggests and go from there, I have a number in mind I'm happy to take, but if he tries to be unreasonable - well, I haven't paid a penny yet...
Broken ring can bypass that much oil. But as someone said, there should be evidence in the exhaust
JOhnH
Touchdown! Greaser!
I think that is your best strategy. Especially if you ever want to rent from him again. But if I were you, it would take some convincing that this was not a typical result of his maintenance.
Glad you made it back safe.
A buddy had a stuck ring in his Comanche and lost 5 qts enroute on a 2 1/2 hr flight. His evidence was on the belly and near 0 compression on that jug.
overdrive148
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overdrive148
Yup... Either a front crank seal or a massive oil leak in the prop /governor..
overdrive148
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overdrive148
Different plane/different place of course, but I was surprised to see oil on the front of the prop after landing.
Dan Thomas
Touchdown! Greaser!
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A blown prop blade seal can do that. It creeps all over the blade, aided by centrifugal force and the low pressure on the front of the blade.
On some airplanes a leaking crank seal can result in oil in odd places. The airflow around the cooling inlets and prop hub isn't always nice and in the right direction. Super Cubs often have cooling issues, and one guy did some testing and found that air was going in the outboard areas of the inlets and coming back out around the prop hub, spoiling the pressure that's supposed to be above the engine. On my Jodel, the air passing aound the side of the nosebowl curls back on itself and is going forward. A small oil leak in one rocker cover showed me that.
Dan
Actually, a front crank seal will blow the oil out of the breather tube due to the high pressure in front of the engine. I changed both of them on my 310.
mtuomi
En-Route
Well, I just had the most interesting conversation with the plane owner. Unfortunately, some people have no clue how to run a business.
Trying to settle the bill with the plane owner, he said he'll take 3 (THREE) hours off the whole rental. That is about 1,5 hours LESS than the time it took me to fix his damn airplane, including all the ground tests he wanted me to do, the hours it took to do the TWO diversions we had to do within 5 hours, and so on.
(The total amount of hours flown was 19,2, he said he wants 16 hours worth of cash).
He explained in many many terms how I am a thief, and how he lost so much time with flying back and forth fixing the airplane, and how I should've been grateful he did that to get things right with me.
I told him I'm happy to pay 10 hours, which was roughly the utility I got out of the plane. He called me a thief.
When I explained the inconvenience we had, including staying in a city for 3 nights over what was planned, we lost a few hotel reservations because of the diversions, and the fact that I saved his engine, twice. He said that's the risk you take and it's not his problem, and that I should be paying HIM for fixing his plane.
Whatever you do, avoid S&S Aviation in Winnsboro, South Carolina. Owner there, Brian, is absolutely unreasonable when it comes to maintenance issues, and obviously 100% careless with the maintenance, as shown by the first issue with the magneto not being attached properly.
Trying to settle the bill with the plane owner, he said he'll take 3 (THREE) hours off the whole rental. That is about 1,5 hours LESS than the time it took me to fix his damn airplane, including all the ground tests he wanted me to do, the hours it took to do the TWO diversions we had to do within 5 hours, and so on.
(The total amount of hours flown was 19,2, he said he wants 16 hours worth of cash).
He explained in many many terms how I am a thief, and how he lost so much time with flying back and forth fixing the airplane, and how I should've been grateful he did that to get things right with me.
I told him I'm happy to pay 10 hours, which was roughly the utility I got out of the plane. He called me a thief.
When I explained the inconvenience we had, including staying in a city for 3 nights over what was planned, we lost a few hotel reservations because of the diversions, and the fact that I saved his engine, twice. He said that's the risk you take and it's not his problem, and that I should be paying HIM for fixing his plane.
Whatever you do, avoid S&S Aviation in Winnsboro, South Carolina. Owner there, Brian, is absolutely unreasonable when it comes to maintenance issues, and obviously 100% careless with the maintenance, as shown by the first issue with the magneto not being attached properly.
Good to know, thanks.
mtuomi
En-Route
Oh, and I already got a call from the police in SC. This sad b*stard already called the police claiming I took their plane and am refusing to pay them.
Avoid. Like... cancer.
Avoid. Like... cancer.
I am half blind so I need to enlarge the print so I can read it properly..
Did you say "
Brian @ S&S AVIATION in Winnsboro South Carolina rents unsafe planes.
Personally I would contact the closest FSDO and report to the maintenance inspector what exactly happened to this "certified" plane on your two flights....
Let the chips fall where they may...
JOhnH
Touchdown! Greaser!
Lawyer time!
I wouldn't pay him a dime till one of you gets a judgement.
mtuomi
En-Route
I live in South Korea. I'll wait for the letter...