Loss in manifold pressure with altitude turbo 182

B

Bravo

Pre-takeoff checklist
Joined
Feb 9, 2014
Messages
138
Location
Maryland
Display Name
Display name:
Bravo
I own a 2006 turbo 182 and recently had the prop repaired from a leak. The shop fixed the leak but after the repair my plane felt sluggish and I noticed the manifold pressure was not producing the 32" it was supposed to. I took it back to the shop.

They inspected everything and then sent the prop back to the prop shop for inspection. The prop shop said everything was within parameters but they would adjust the pitch to the lower limits. They got it all back together and at 300' msl the shop was able to get 32" of manifold pressure on a runup. I had a test flight done and the airplane would not hold the manifold pressure on climb. At 10,000 ft the manifold pressure was only 21.7" and a climb rate of only 300 fpm.

During the test flight they landed at an airport at approx 3000' msl and a run up performed there only produced 29.7" manifold pressure.

This airplane should be able to hold 32" up to 20000 ft.

What could be the problem?
 
Bravo said:
I own a 2006 turbo 182 and recently had the prop repaired from a leak. The shop fixed the leak but after the repair my plane felt sluggish and I noticed the manifold pressure was not producing the 32" it was supposed to. I took it back to the shop.

They inspected everything and then sent the prop back to the prop shop for inspection. The prop shop said everything was within parameters but they would adjust the pitch to the lower limits. They got it all back together and at 300' msl the shop was able to get 32" of manifold pressure on a runup. I had a test flight done and the airplane would not hold the manifold pressure on climb. At 10,000 ft the manifold pressure was only 21.7" and a climb rate of only 300 fpm.

During the test flight they landed at an airport at approx 3000' msl and a run up performed there only produced 29.7" manifold pressure.

This airplane should be able to hold 32" up to 20000 ft.

What could be the problem?
Click to expand...

Sticky wastegate or exhaust leak are the first that come to mind. Ever noticed oil leaks from the exhaust? What about oil in the induction system?
 
I was told the waste gate looked ok and I have not seen any leaks in the exhaust.
 
The waste gate needs to close totally. Hard to think of a way to check this at 10k except to to have CDT gauge. By watching the compressor discharge temp. You can tell if the waste gate is working properly. You might also check the throttle linkage to be sure it closing the waste gate. Good luck.
 
Wastegate, induction leaks, turbo, exhaust, all come to mind as potential issues.

The more I fly naturally aspirated and turbo planes, the more I've determined that turbos sound nice on paper, but add a lot of complexity.
 
I would start with the simple stuff. Fully de-cowl your bird. Take a flashlight and inspection mirror and carefully go over every inch of the hot and cold side of the turbo. Dark carbon marks on the exhaust piping usually indicate a leak. On the cold side make sure and test every clamp, every hose, etc. Take your time and be super through. This could easily be as simple as a loose clamp.
 
Problem likely found. This is what my waste gate looks like. Was told it would be over $8k to replace new. Crossing my fingers it can be repaired for a lot less $.

246jei9.jpg
 
http://rajayparts.com/

Nice folks. Don't know what make it is, but this is a good place to start. If it's an AR unit, he might direct you.
 
This is a reason I recommend pilots make their own checklists, normal as well as emergency, especially if operating a turbocharged engine. NTSB thoughts:
http://www.ntsb.gov/doclib/recletters/2008/a08_21.pdf

Lesson learned for others. If you operate a turbocharged engine and it is not producing full power get it fixed. It is not airworthy- in spite of what one PA-34 owner told me turbochargers are not optional equipment.
 
Blackhawk said:
This is a reason I recommend pilots make their own checklists, normal as well as emergency, especially if operating a turbocharged engine. NTSB thoughts:
http://www.ntsb.gov/doclib/recletters/2008/a08_21.pdf

Lesson learned for others. If you operate a turbocharged engine and it is not producing full power get it fixed. It is not airworthy- in spite of what one PA-34 owner told me turbochargers are not optional equipment.
Click to expand...

As a T206H owner I have reviewed the DEA crash in detail. I have asked both Cessna, the Cessna board, and the Cessna dealer how to conclusively determine a turbo failure while in flight and what you could do about it to keep the engine running. No one could answer.

Using the boost pump is logical, there have been several saves attributed to hitting the boost pump with loss of engine power due to a failed fuel pump.

Given enough time it I'm sure it's possible to get the engine to make some power, in the DEA's case the guy just didn't have enough altitude.
 
The more I fly, the less I want a turbocharged airplane, in spite of the long trips that I fly. There is just a great deal of complexity that goes into these systems. Lots of parts that can (and do) fail, and are very expensive when they do, plus extra ADs. That said, there's some great performance to be had if you can keep up with the maintenance.

I tend to think that an "overpowered" naturally aspirated engine is a better solution in many cases, or at least more reliable.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
The more I fly, the less I want a turbocharged airplane, in spite of the long trips that I fly. There is just a great deal of complexity that goes into these systems. Lots of parts that can (and do) fail, and are very expensive when they do, plus extra ADs. That said, there's some great performance to be had if you can keep up with the maintenance.

I tend to think that an "overpowered" naturally aspirated engine is a better solution in many cases, or at least more reliable.
Click to expand...

Supercharging might be a good alternative.:wink2:
 
That never should have happened...... What was that made from?
 
Spoke with lycoming and they told me that this is something that commonly wears over time but it was odd that mine only made it for 700 hours. They also said it is just some type of cast material.

Thanks for the replies. If anyone knows of good shops that can repair wastegates, please pass it along. May need to get another price if the place that has it comes back with a crazy number.
 
Bravo said:
Spoke with lycoming and they told me that this is something that commonly wears over time but it was odd that mine only made it for 700 hours. They also said it is just some type of cast material.

Thanks for the replies. If anyone knows of good shops that can repair wastegates, please pass it along. May need to get another price if the place that has it comes back with a crazy number.
Click to expand...

I just don't buy that based on what you have already told us. If the waste gate was slowly wearing, wouldn't that have evidenced itself by slowly reducing the amount of manifold pressure you could produce? This seems like more of a discrete event (It just broke one day).
 
Alexb2000 said:
I just don't buy that based on what you have already told us. If the waste gate was slowly wearing, wouldn't that have evidenced itself by slowly reducing the amount of manifold pressure you could produce? This seems like more of a discrete event (It just broke one day).
Click to expand...

I don't think it slowly did anything. Just saying what lycoming told me. Whatever happened to mine happened all at once somehow during the time my prop got fixed.
 
Bravo said:
I don't think it slowly did anything. Just saying what lycoming told me. Whatever happened to mine happened all at once somehow during the time my prop got fixed.
Click to expand...

Either that or it just got to the point where you noticed an issue around the same time period.
 
Bravo said:
Thanks for the replies. If anyone knows of good shops that can repair wastegates, please pass it along. May need to get another price if the place that has it comes back with a crazy number.
Click to expand...

Hello? Are you reading your own thread?
 
docmirror said:
Hello? Are you reading your own thread?
Click to expand...

Sure did. Thanks. They do not work on the factory waste gates for my airplane. Nice guy and very helpful in passing along some other leads.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top