Loose Seat Sink Ship

Big Mustache

Big Mustache

Filing Flight Plan
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Feb 20, 2012
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Fort Lupton, CO
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Bushy Mustache
I was recently PIC on a trip to Sydney, Nebraska. The rental 172 had worn out seat rails. I thought I had the seat locked in (I did the cessna "butt wiggle") When I put the power in take off, the plane rotated and the pilot seat shot back all the way! Needless to say I couldn't reach the pedals and of course I pulled on the yoke. Luckily I was able to grab the throttle and pull the power. The plane just rolled to the side of the runway. The pucker factor on this accident was huge! Very embaressing too, I hope no one was watching.
 
I could be wrong, but I thing there have been fatalities attributed to seats sliding backwards on takeoff. Big concern in a 185. I always (in addition to the wiggle you mentioned) make sure the adjustment lever in locked down as well.
 
steingar said:
Do you guys have to comb through the log book for the all the AD's whenever you rent an airplane?
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I don't do it when I'm renting, but I do when I'm getting ready for a checkride. OTOH, I know that the place I rent from is meticulous about the maintenance, and the bird I frequently fly is on a part 135 certificate, too.
 
There was a serious accident at KFTG several years ago. A pilot lost control on take-off and plowed into the flight line and damaged a bunch of aircraft. Seat slipped back on take-off.
 
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jtheune said:
How did you manage to find a Cessna without the stops?
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There's a bunch. The two that I rented in Hawaii last December did not have any stops. I had to look really carefuly how they latched.
 
murphey said:
If the AD hasn't been complied with, isn't the aircraft unairworthy?
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Most definitely, and AD 2011-10-09 supersedes AD 87-20-03 R2, which came out in 1987. 25 years ago. There's no excuse for such worn-out stuff, even if the parts are too expensive from Cessna. MacFarlane Aviation makes aftermarket parts for these things for considerably less money.

The world's largest civil aviation lawsuit was over a seat-slip accident due to worn rails in a 185. The jury gave the plaintiff US$450 million. Textron (owner of Cessna) appealed, probably on the basis of non-compliance with the AD. It will be in appeal forever.

Dan
 
Make them install a seat stop. Do not pass go, do not collect $200. You shouldn't be sliding to the back seat. Sliding to the approximately 2/3's point is scary enough.

If its an older Cessna, the factory extended their offer of installing the inertia reel under the pilot's seat at zero charge into 2013 at any Cessna authorized service center or any mechanic who'll take the dollar amount Cessna is offering.

Tell 'em to do it at the next 100 hour inspection.

We're doing ours later this year.

The new AD and associated SBs also have EXACT measurements of all components that should be accomplished to determine wear.

Some folks are going to need new seat tracks. More than usual this year. Expect shortages and be happy if there aren't.

If you need new seat tracks, buy McFarlane's. They're better built than Cessna's, have an available STC, and will last longer than you'll own the aircraft. $500 a side, last I checked.
 
steingar said:
Do you guys have to comb through the log book for the all the AD's whenever you rent an airplane?
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No, but anyone that flies should have a clue about potentially deadly ADs. I check Cessna seat rails and do the butt-wiggle in any airplane with adjustable seat.

I'll ask a V-tail owner about the tail AD before launching. An uncertain response means a look at the logs.
 
One of my aborted take-off rolls was due to the seat sliding back when I put the power in (rental 172 last summer).
 
Big Mustache said:
There was a serious accident at KFRG several years ago. A pilot lost control on take-off and plowed into the flight line and damaged a bunch of aircraft. Seat slipped back on take-off.
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Funny you mentioned.

I was training in KFRG in 2003, in a Piper Warrior. N301AV I believe. My CFI at that time was horrible, and simply was there for a ride. 2nd or 3rd flight, I was doing takeoffs, and on takeoff seat rolled back. I was lucky enough that CFI noticed that and grabbed controls. I instinctively grabbed controls, but let go few seconds later. Rest of the flight was relatively normal.

I mentioned the CFI's "greatness" since he never showed me a single checklist, never followed one himself, so I didn't really know how dangerous unlocked seat may be.
 
I had this happen a few times in a Tiger as a newly minted pilot. Scared the living hell out of me. Thank the lord each time the seat let go was when I was doing a run up or taxining.
 
As you may remember, my primary trainer (a 152) had this problem and then one day they fixed it.

Months after the fix, during a lesson, on takeoff (while in the air on upwind) my CFI pulled the seat but I didn't see him do it and I shot all the way back. I figured it was just the seat acting up again and I was already trimmed for takeoff so I didn't pull the yoke or anything. I kept looking at him and asking if he'd take the airplane for me while I fixed my seat - since I couldn't reach the controls - and he did this thing where he wouldn't answer until I said "oh I get it you want to see what I will do in this situation". I think he was hoping I wouldn't grab for the yoke. I finally got back up and only later did he tell me it was him and not the seat itself. Probably worst time to happen - on takeoff..... cuz I'm short and in my planes I have the seat scooted all the way up. And I always do the cessna seat jiggle.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
cuz I'm short and in my planes I have the seat scooted all the way up. And I always do the cessna seat jiggle.
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I am short too, have the seat all the way forward and do the same cessna dance. I am so worried about my seat flying back on the TO roll.:yikes:
 
We just replaced the pilot side seat rails in our 182. 6 hours labor and <$150 in parts, including the template (McFarlane rails, purchased through Aircraft Spruce). Not a big deal for something that gets done once every 15 years or more.

Interestingly, it was the aft-most hole on the outboard side that was worn - no one uses that hole in-flight. It was probably worn from folks leaning on the seat while working on the plane, etc. One other more forward hole was getting close to the limits.

The McFarlane track-wear measuring tool is critical to proper inspection - I don't see how you could properly measure the wear without that unless you *really* enjoy using a micrometer.

Jeff
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
As you may remember, my primary trainer (a 152) had this problem and then one day they fixed it.

Months after the fix, during a lesson, on takeoff (while in the air on upwind) my CFI pulled the seat but I didn't see him do it and I shot all the way back. I figured it was just the seat acting up again and I was already trimmed for takeoff so I didn't pull the yoke or anything. I kept looking at him and asking if he'd take the airplane for me while I fixed my seat - since I couldn't reach the controls - and he did this thing where he wouldn't answer until I said "oh I get it you want to see what I will do in this situation". I think he was hoping I wouldn't grab for the yoke. I finally got back up and only later did he tell me it was him and not the seat itself. Probably worst time to happen - on takeoff..... cuz I'm short and in my planes I have the seat scooted all the way up. And I always do the cessna seat jiggle.
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As an instructor, I must point out that what he did was a really stupid idea, and he is going to kill himself and a student one day doing that crap.
 
This happened to me in a rental 172 about one week before my checkride. My CFI was quite surprised at first due to the quick aborted takeoff until I told him what happened as we were pulling off the runway. The A&P wanted to use bungee cords to fix it, but we wouldn't have that and insisted that he do it correctly with a new spring. :rolleyes:


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AdamZ said:
I had this happen a few times in a Tiger as a newly minted pilot. Scared the living hell out of me. Thank the lord each time the seat let go was when I was doing a run up or taxining.
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Dollars to donuts some genius mechanic substituted an AN4 hex-headed bolt on the seat rails instead of the AN24 clevis bolt that is supposed to be there.
 
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