Looking for advice on flying in the Rockies

[Fearless Tower]

Looking for local knowledge kind of stuff for a trip I have coming up next in early September to the Denver area. I'll be flying from San Diego. Haven't decided on the plane yet, but whatever I take will be non-turbo and no onboard O2, so I plan to go VFR.

I already have my fall-back safe route planned - basically going to ABQ then CIM PUB BJC.

If and only if the weather is looking good, I was thinking about looking at a more direct route. Any VFR recommended routes in the 11-12k range?

So far my only experience flying in CO was with my dad in a Turbo Lance on O2 back in the 90s. My personal mountain experience has been in places like Big Bear and northern AZ, so I am not here looking to try and learn any 'advanced' techniques from the internet. Just general pointers so I don't get in over my head.

Is there a common VFR traffic freq used in the mountain passes, like 122.75? Haven't seen anything specifically noted on the charts.

 

[poadeleted20]

If you make that route ABQ then FTI before CIM PUB BJC, you'll avoid all the nasty terrain southwest through west of Denver which is a lot higher and rougher than your post suggests you've seen. Also, if you can find a portable O2 bottle, it might help you on some of the legs where you'll want to be above 10,000 MSL.

I'd also suggest giving yourself a good gross weight margin -- at least 10% below MGW should help make up for the loss of performance at those high DA's (it's still pretty hot along that route even in September).

Give yourself at least a 2000-foot cushion when crossing ridgelines. A friend of mine came to grief because he didn't do that.
http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief.aspx?ev_id=20020730X01250&key=1
BTW, the Dayton OH FSDO probably still has the slide presentation on mountain flying he prepared as part of his 709 ride after that accident, which they liked so much (the presentation, not the accident) that they had him present it at several safety seminars around the area. I wish I had a copy -- I'll see if I can get it.

Beware of flying under high-base thunderstorms -- look for virga above or "dust doughnuts" below.

And I know of no designated freq for passes in the Rockies.

 

[PilotAlan]

If you make that route ABQ then FTI before CIM PUB BJC, you'll avoid all the nasty terrain southwest through west of Denver which is a lot higher and rougher than your post suggests you've seen. Also, if you can find a portable O2 bottle, it might help you on some of the legs where you'll want to be above 10,000 MSL.

I'd also suggest giving yourself a good gross weight margin -- at least 10% below MGW should help make up for the loss of performance at those high DA's (it's still pretty hot along that route even in September).

Give yourself at least a 2000-foot cushion when crossing ridgelines. A friend of mine came to grief because he didn't do that.
http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief.aspx?ev_id=20020730X01250&key=1
BTW, the Dayton OH FSDO probably still has the slide presentation on mountain flying he prepared as part of his 709 ride after that accident, which they liked so much (the presentation, not the accident) that they had him present it at several safety seminars around the area. I wish I had a copy -- I'll see if I can get it.

Beware of flying under high-base thunderstorms -- look for virga above or "dust doughnuts" below.

And I know of no designated freq for passes in the Rockies.

What he said.
Seriously, if you have not taken a Mountain Flying course *in the Rockies*, stay out of the mountains. The mountainsides are littered with the wreckage of planes whose pilots thought everything would be OK.

This is one of those cases where not knowing what you don't know can kill you.

 

[COFlyBoy]

I'm with Ron. Go the ABQ-CIM route. You'll get some easy mountain experience with plenty of outs if you don't like what you see. In fact if you chicken out you can fly around all the big stuff on that route.

Going throught the middle of the Rockies at 11-12k is basically impossible. You'll have to cross some passes that are 11k+. I highly recommend you don't do that as a mountain noob.

 

[Fearless Tower]

Thanks guys... that's the kind of sage advice I am looking for.

As far as my long route - I had been thinking about going up toward Taos from ABQ and then flying the valley between Taos and Angel fire at 11,500, but I will keep the ABQ FTI CIM route as a good option if the winds and weather are looking iffy.

 

[Henning]

Looking for local knowledge kind of stuff for a trip I have coming up next in early September to the Denver area. I'll be flying from San Diego. Haven't decided on the plane yet, but whatever I take will be non-turbo and no onboard O2, so I plan to go VFR.

I already have my fall-back safe route planned - basically going to ABQ then CIM PUB BJC.

If and only if the weather is looking good, I was thinking about looking at a more direct route. Any VFR recommended routes in the 11-12k range?

So far my only experience flying in CO was with my dad in a Turbo Lance on O2 back in the 90s. My personal mountain experience has been in places like Big Bear and northern AZ, so I am not here looking to try and learn any 'advanced' techniques from the internet. Just general pointers so I don't get in over my head.

Is there a common VFR traffic freq used in the mountain passes, like 122.75? Haven't seen anything specifically noted on the charts.

You can come in along the highway that does the E/W cut through the mountains from Denver out through Aspen way. There's several good passes to use and valleys to fly through that keep you well below O2 altitudes the vast majority of the time and keep you below 12,500. It all depends on what your weather is for that day. East bound is typically a sled run through the mountains. West bound is where it gets questionable whether it's more efficient to head south before crossing. If you've ever flown into Big Bear when the Santanas were blowing hard, you have a good taste of what the Rockies can be like as well. That time of year though you should have some pretty nice conditions. The mountains are always a "play it by ear" deal because the weather can be so unstable.

 

[Tom-D]

Any pilot flying in or around the high country must realize it is a matter of Weather, Weather, Weather. If you can't see there, don't go there.

 

[Tom-D]

You can come in along the highway that does the E/W cut through the mountains from Denver out through Aspen way. There's several good passes to use and valleys to fly through that keep you well below O2 altitudes the vast majority of the time and keep you below 12,500. It all depends on what your weather is for that day. East bound is typically a sled run through the mountains. West bound is where it gets questionable whether it's more efficient to head south before crossing. If you've ever flown into Big Bear when the Santanas were blowing hard, you have a good taste of what the Rockies can be like as well. That time of year though you should have some pretty nice conditions. The mountains are always a "play it by ear" deal because the weather can be so unstable.

Following a highway got me into the worst case of IFR I ever encountered, in many cases there just isn't room to do the 180 back to VFR.

 

[murphey]

Excellent! Be here Sept 17 and take the Colorado Pilots Mountain Flying ground school! Then take the flying part the next day - BJC or APA to Corona Pass, Granby or Steamboat, over to Glenwood Springs, around to Leadville (gotta get your certificate!) then back home.

As for the flight, coming to Denver area the winds will be in your favor and you can take the scenic route up the Rio Grande (ABQ-SAF-MVI) and over LaVeta Pass. You'll be at 12.5 or 13.5 for about 15-20 min. There's an AWOS on top of the pass. If winds are >15, take the long way.

Another option is PSO (Pagosa Springs) direct to 8V1 (Del Norte) then over the pass. That's 42 nm at 14.5 for about a half hour and limited "outs".

 

[murphey]

Looking for local knowledge kind of stuff for a trip I have coming up next in early September to the Denver area.

Great! Time to start planning the next CO-POA event!

 

[Sac Arrow]

I'm with Ron. Go the ABQ-CIM route. You'll get some easy mountain experience with plenty of outs if you don't like what you see. In fact if you chicken out you can fly around all the big stuff on that route.

Going throught the middle of the Rockies at 11-12k is basically impossible. You'll have to cross some passes that are 11k+. I highly recommend you don't do that as a mountain noob.

+3 I'm not a mountain noob, and I would still opt for the suggested route.

 

[Ghery]

You can come in along the highway that does the E/W cut through the mountains from Denver out through Aspen way. There's several good passes to use and valleys to fly through that keep you well below O2 altitudes the vast majority of the time and keep you below 12,500. It all depends on what your weather is for that day. East bound is typically a sled run through the mountains. West bound is where it gets questionable whether it's more efficient to head south before crossing. If you've ever flown into Big Bear when the Santanas were blowing hard, you have a good taste of what the Rockies can be like as well. That time of year though you should have some pretty nice conditions. The mountains are always a "play it by ear" deal because the weather can be so unstable.

Considering the elevation of the entrance to the Eisenhower tunnel (and you can't fly through it) I'd say that following I-70 is not one of Ford's better ideas. The tunnel is around 11,000 MSL, the the pass it bypasses is more like 13,000 MSL (or so I recall from living in the Denver area 30 years ago). High country, to be sure.

 

[SkyHog]

Thanks guys... that's the kind of sage advice I am looking for.

As far as my long route - I had been thinking about going up toward Taos from ABQ and then flying the valley between Taos and Angel fire at 11,500, but I will keep the ABQ FTI CIM route as a good option if the winds and weather are looking iffy.

ABQ - SAF - TAS - ALS - GOSIP onward

Seriously, it'll be the most fun flight of your life, and the La Veta pass is the easiest pass you'll ever get to say you've flown (no mountain training necessary for it). Follow the highway, and you'll naturally approach at a 45 degree angle to the crest. If you go above 9500, you'll be above the peaks, so no worries about granite. The winds are usually pretty decent, but even when they're crazy, you've limited your exposure by only going through a very narrow passage in the mountain.

Going the other way - ABQ - FTI - CIM adds an hour or two to the trip, and while beautiful, its nothing like the La Veta pass.

As a person who has done both ways literally dozens (if not many more) times, I can help you with whatever you need - if you need advice, please do not hesitate to call me at Five oh Five Seven 50 dash seven 448.

You don't want to miss out on the La Veta pass. Sure, ABQ-FTI-CIM is easier, but my suggestion is not only prettier, but its so damned easy it might as well be the default route.

Now, if you want to try the Monarch pass or something, I'd probably be talking about the necessities of mountain training....La Veta is no more a pass than the Tijeras Canyon just east of ABQ is a pass....that is to say, if you are flying an airplane, you can either go over or through it just as easily.

 

[murphey]

You can come in along the highway that does the E/W cut through the mountains from Denver out through Aspen way.

No. NO. HELL NO! You're talking about I-70, right? Don't do it. I'd hate for Nate to have to go out on a SAR mission when you meet cumulo granite.

Following I-70 west from Denver to Vail in a single engine airplane is only practical in a Pilatus or an F16. There are NO outs, the "pass" over the Eisenhower tunnel is insufficient for a 180 turn around. And the pass between Aspen & Leadville is littered with little airplane skeletons (and other things). There's no way out. I don't even like it in a car, forget the airplane.

 

[murphey]

ABQ - SAF - TAS - ALS - GOSIP onward

Seriously, it'll be the most fun flight of your life, and the La Veta pass is the easiest pass you'll ever get to say you've flown (no mountain training necessary for it). Follow the highway, and you'll naturally approach at a 45 degree angle to the crest. If you go above 9500, you'll be above the peaks, so no worries about granite. The winds are usually pretty decent, but even when they're crazy, you've limited your exposure by only going through a very narrow passage in the mountain.

For those of us living out here, and flying LaVeta often, 12.5 going west, 11.5 going east. The road is at 9.1 and has an AWOS. Make sure there's 2K ceiling ABOVE you!

http://www.coloradodot.info/programs/aeronautics

has maps, recommended routes, AWOS, etc. Download the PDF and put it on your iPad.

Yup - just checked. KVTP is the pass, AWOS is 119.925. Some flight planning software will recognize KVTP.

And even more important.....density altitude & leaning.
density altitude & leaning.
density altitude & leaning.
density altitude & leaning.
density altitude & leaning.
density altitude & leaning.

right now (this timestamp) temp up there is 20 C 30.45 at the tower (10.2) the DA is 13 and at 11.5 estimate is 14.6 Does the airplane have sufficient service ceiling?

 

[SkyHog]

Thanks guys... that's the kind of sage advice I am looking for.

As far as my long route - I had been thinking about going up toward Taos from ABQ and then flying the valley between Taos and Angel fire at 11,500, but I will keep the ABQ FTI CIM route as a good option if the winds and weather are looking iffy.

I would suggest against the Taos to Angel Fire route. Its beautiful, absolutely gorgeous, but its also a very difficult pass to navigate without any pass training.

Take a mountain course first. Please.

 

[SkyHog]

For those of us living out here, and flying LaVeta often, 12.5 going west, 11.5 going east. The road is at 9.1 and has an AWOS. Make sure there's 2K ceiling ABOVE you!

http://www.coloradodot.info/programs/aeronautics

has maps, recommended routes, AWOS, etc. Download the PDF and put it on your iPad.

Yup - just checked. KVTP is the pass, AWOS is 119.925. Some flight planning software will recognize KVTP.

And even more important.....density altitude & leaning.
density altitude & leaning.
density altitude & leaning.
density altitude & leaning.
density altitude & leaning.
density altitude & leaning.

right now (this timestamp) temp up there is 20 C 30.45 at the tower (10.2) the DA is 13 and at 11.5 estimate is 14.6 Does the airplane have sufficient service ceiling?

Its La Veta. Its really easy...so easy, you could approach it without a plan and be on the other side, still looking for the pass, wondering if you missed it.

For your reference, I just moved to NC from NM about 7 months ago. I've done that pass a million times.

 

[Fearless Tower]

ABQ - SAF - TAS - ALS - GOSIP onward

Seriously, it'll be the most fun flight of your life,

Actually what I'll be doing when I get to BJC is hopefully going to be the most fun flight of my life, but I'll keep the LaVeta Pass as an option.

Also depends on what I take - if I end up taking my 170 I will probably be relegated to the long route.....which is going to be REALLY long at 95 kts! DA may make it impossible. If I take the Duchess though, it will be doable (wx dependent).

 

[Fearless Tower]

I would suggest against the Taos to Angel Fire route. Its beautiful, absolutely gorgeous, but its also a very difficult pass to navigate without any pass training.

Really? Not being argumentative, but on the chart, it looks like the highway between Taos and Angel Fire runs through a comparatively low valley the way the pass is marked on the chart is a little confusing though.

 

[SkyHog]

Really? Not being argumentative, but on the chart, it looks like the highway between Taos and Angel Fire runs through a comparatively low valley the way the pass is marked on the chart is a little confusing though.

I think you're talking about the Palo-Flechado pass (I'd never heard it called that, but that's what the sectional says). If you look closely, the pass is nice and wide and then narrows to a really tiny section with a bunch of mountains over 11,000ft on either side (read: no way out once you start).

That area is constantly filled with bad clouds and weather that you'd never know about until you passed the point of no return (there's a turn that you have to make, and there's no visibility around the turn).

Once you get in, though, the "pass" on the other side by Eagles Nest that takes you out by Cimarron is nice and easy. If I had to make the decision, I'd do that route instead if you want to see Angel Fire - go to CIM then head into the canyon from there.

 

[Henning]

Considering the elevation of the entrance to the Eisenhower tunnel (and you can't fly through it) I'd say that following I-70 is not one of Ford's better ideas. The tunnel is around 11,000 MSL, the the pass it bypasses is more like 13,000 MSL (or so I recall from living in the Denver area 30 years ago). High country, to be sure.

Yeah, luckily one isn't limited to the highway... Crossing passes only takes a short while at altitude then you get to drop right back down to 11,500' and below. Day VFR with good weather I don't have any issues with it personally, and it takes you through some very scenic areas. A lot of the towns I like are along that basic route, so it's one I accept the risks on.

 

[Fearless Tower]

I think you're talking about the Palo-Flechado pass (I'd never heard it called that, but that's what the sectional says). If you look closely, the pass is nice and wide and then narrows to a really tiny section with a bunch of mountains over 11,000ft on either side (read: no way out once you start).

That area is constantly filled with bad clouds and weather that you'd never know about until you passed the point of no return (there's a turn that you have to make, and there's no visibility around the turn).

Once you get in, though, the "pass" on the other side by Eagles Nest that takes you out by Cimarron is nice and easy. If I had to make the decision, I'd do that route instead if you want to see Angel Fire - go to CIM then head into the canyon from there.

That makes sense....thanks!

 

[Everskyward]

Yeah, luckily one isn't limited to the highway... Crossing passes only takes a short while at altitude then you get to drop right back down to 11,500' and below. Day VFR with good weather I don't have any issues with it personally, and it takes you through some very scenic areas. A lot of the towns I like are along that basic route, so it's one I accept the risks on.

OK, but that was not such a good suggestion for someone's first mountain flight through the Rockies.

 

[PilotAlan]

No. NO. HELL NO! You're talking about I-70, right? Don't do it. I'd hate for Nate to have to go out on a SAR mission when you meet cumulo granite.

Yeah, luckily one isn't limited to the highway... Crossing passes only takes a short while at altitude then you get to drop right back down to 11,500' and below. Day VFR with good weather I don't have any issues with it personally, and it takes you through some very scenic areas. A lot of the towns I like are along that basic route, so it's one I accept the risks on.

I disagree, Henning. The I-70 route, or anything going *through* the mountains (as opposed to around them, like New Mexico or Wyoming) isn't for a transient in anything less than a high-flying turbo.

I'm from here, and I don't play in the mountains. The passes are far apart, weather changes rapidly, you can't see what you're getting into until you are there, and lots of people before you have died doing what you're attempting.
Unless:
- You're in the flight levels, or
- You have been well and truly trained on Rocky Mountain flying, and have no time pressure to be anywhere,
then you should stay out.

In the neverending battle between small, fast, aluminum flying objects and the immobile Earth, the Earth has yet to lose.

 

[Henning]

OK, but that was not such a good suggestion for someone's first mountain flight through the Rockies.

He's flown the Sierras, they can be nasty as when the Santanas are blowing, you have much the same effects in air currents. If your first trip into the Rockies is no different from anything else you've done, what did you learn/experience? I didn't advise him to proceed recklessly, and if the weather is good, the flight is doable by a pilot of even limited experience. If the weather is not good, there are other routes to take. If the weather is good though, that route provides you some magnificent vistas. Flying the route downwind also makes it considerably safer for the uninitiated since nature will favor you with lift over passes.

 

[SkyHog]

I disagree, Henning. The I-70 route, or anything going *through* the mountains (as opposed to around them, like New Mexico or Wyoming) isn't for a transient in anything less than a high-flying turbo.

I'm from here, and I don't play in the mountains. The passes are far apart, weather changes rapidly, you can't see what you're getting into until you are there, and lots of people before you have died doing what you're attempting.
Unless:
- You're in the flight levels, or
- You have been well and truly trained on Rocky Mountain flying, and have no time pressure to be anywhere,
then you should stay out.

In the neverending battle between small, fast, aluminum flying objects and the immobile Earth, the Earth has yet to lose.

Except La Veta.

The biggest disservice that the FAA did to transient pilots was marking La Veta as a "pass" on the sectional.

 

[Fearless Tower]

In the neverending battle between small, fast, aluminum flying objects and the immobile Earth, the Earth has yet to lose.

Can we call this one a draw?

DC-3 vs mountain:

http://lamkins.tripod.com/FrontierCrashText.html

On April 21, 1957 at 1321 hours a lone DC-3 operating as Frontier Airlines flight seven departed Prescott, Arizona under visual flight rules enroute to Phoenix, Arizona. On board the flight were twenty-one passengers and a crew of three. As the flight proceeded southbound toward Phoenix the weather deteriorated to a point where the flight could no longer maintain visual flight rules and remain clear of clouds. The captain of the flight requested and received an instrument flight rules clearance to proceed to Phoenix via Knob intersection to the Phoenix omni range to maintain 7000 feet. The crew never acknowledged receiving the clearance. Frontier Airlines flight seven struck the west ridge of a mountain at the 4500’ level and sheared off twelve feet of the left wing and aileron. After declaring an emergency, flight seven landed at the Phoenix Sky Harbor airport without further incident.

 

[Everskyward]

He's flown the Sierras, they can be nasty as when the Santanas are blowing, you have much the same effects in air currents. If your first trip into the Rockies is no different from anything else you've done, what did you learn/experience? I didn't advise him to proceed recklessly, and if the weather is good, the flight is doable by a pilot of even limited experience. If the weather is not good, there are other routes to take. If the weather is good though, that route provides you some magnificent vistas. Flying the route downwind also makes it considerably safer for the uninitiated since nature will favor you with lift over passes.

Where does he say that he has flown in the Sierras?

So far my only experience flying in CO was with my dad in a Turbo Lance on O2 back in the 90s. My personal mountain experience has been in places like Big Bear and northern AZ, so I am not here looking to try and learn any 'advanced' techniques from the internet. Just general pointers so I don't get in over my head.

Big Bear is in that cluster of mountains just east of San Bernardino. It's not anything like the Loveland Pass area.

 

[Henning]

Where does he say that he has flown in the Sierras?

Big Bear is in that cluster of mountains just east of San Bernardino. It's not anything like the Loveland Pass area.

When the wind is blowing off the desert at 70kts and you approach that range, it's as hairy as anything else I've seen gets. I took an uncommanded ride to 19,000 and I climbed for all it was worth, because I knew what was going to come next. This is a guy who has DC-3 and B-25 time, so not rank amateur. There is risk taking that route for sure, and except twice I was in a twin and always picked my weather, but it's not a route I fear eastbound.

 

[Fearless Tower]

This is a guy who has DC-3 and B-25 time, so not rank amateur.

But they're both super-charged

 

[Everskyward]

When the wind is blowing off the desert at 70kts and you approach that range, it's as hairy as anything else I've seen gets.

Pretty sure the OP didn't go there when the winds were 70 kts...

 

[COFlyBoy]

When the wind is blowing off the desert at 70kts and you approach that range, it's as hairy as anything else I've seen gets. I took an uncommanded ride to 19,000 and I climbed for all it was worth, because I knew what was going to come next. This is a guy who has DC-3 and B-25 time, so not rank amateur. There is risk taking that route for sure, and except twice I was in a twin and always picked my weather, but it's not a route I fear eastbound.

The Colorado Pilots Association recommends that you do not fly the passes in a light GA plane when the winds are above 25kts. If you like flying in the mountains when winds are 70kts please don't come to Colorado, we don't want your plane littering up our mountains.

There is a significant amount of cumulative flying knowledge (millions of hours? and accident reports) that goes into those recommendations, I'd not be bold enough to challenge it.

 

[Fearless Tower]

Pretty sure the OP didn't go there when the winds were 70 kts...

Yep, you guessed it.

Henning gives me a bit more credit than due.

I have enough experience flying around the mountains in CA and AZ to know what he is talking about and have experienced some here and there (like an OEI climb over Julian at 700 FPM, 4k above the SE service ceiling that day), but nowhere near enough to be comfortable predicting conditions flying by myself.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Really? Not being argumentative, but on the chart, it looks like the highway between Taos and Angel Fire runs through a comparatively low valley the way the pass is marked on the chart is a little confusing though.

Mountain Pass rule #1 - the passes marked on the charts are for identification only - they show where the road crosses it. They are not meant as an indication of where an airplane should fly.

A switchback road through a pass can (and often does) equal a dead end mass of cumulogranite for an airplane.

 

[COFlyBoy]

Here's some general mountain advice:
1- Don't fly in the rocks if the winds are greater than 25kts
2- Don't fly in the rocks if there are clouds (any clouds...at all...really)
3- Know your planes performance at 9000' DA (really know, not just read it in the POH)
4- Know your planes performance at 11000' DA (really know, not just read
it in the POH)
5- Know your planes performance at 13000' DA (really know, not just read it in the POH)

 

[COFlyBoy]

Except La Veta.

The biggest disservice that the FAA did to transient pilots was marking La Veta as a "pass" on the sectional.

I'd say La Veta is one of the more manageable passes in the Colorado Rockies. If the weather's good a flatlander can do it heading East. Its low (9400) and you can see the flatland out in front.

OTOH, Monarch Pass and Wolf Creek Pass are high and not oriented so that you can see through the pass as you approach. Those should not be attempted w/o training.

 

[murphey]

I'd say La Veta is one of the more manageable passes in the Colorado Rockies. If the weather's good a flatlander can do it heading East. Its low (9400) and you can see the flatland out in front.

OTOH, Monarch Pass and Wolf Creek Pass are high and not oriented so that you can see through the pass as you approach. Those should not be attempted w/o training.

Not only that, but winds thru Monarch are usually fairly strong. Right now, 10G20 (http://www.cotrip.org/device.htm?type=ws) is handy to check winds at road level.

 

[zaitcev]

Going the other way - ABQ - FTI - CIM adds an hour or two to the trip, and while beautiful, its nothing like the La Veta pass.

Actually I calculated and the low road over KLVS is only 7% longer for ABQ-FTG, 10% longer for SAF-FTG. Hardly an hour. The problem is if he comes from the west, up the valley and sees the pass closed, then what? Press north? Go back south? Backtrack to Taos and land? Blanche suggested to check AWOS at KVTP (which is repaired and is functional now), but the weather changes too quickly.

 

[Henning]

Actually I calculated and the low road over KLVS is only 7% longer for ABQ-FTG, 10% longer for SAF-FTG. Hardly an hour. The problem is if he comes from the west, up the valley and sees the pass closed, then what? Press north? Go back south? Backtrack to Taos and land? Blanche suggested to check AWOS at KVTP (which is repaired and is functional now), but the weather changes too quickly.

You can follow most all of those inter-range N-S valleys to a strip. You can also parallel along to other passes. There are irrigated alfalfa fields down there. Can you get killed? Yep. Is it necessarily so? Nope. Pick your weather and it's a doable run if you have some horsepower and good weather. If you don't have either of those, then it's not an option. In a Dutchess, I would do it if I had the weather. I've come across at Alamosa many times, that is an easy crossing even in N/A singles as long as it's not a super hot afternoon. It's not that the mountains hold NO options, just that they are limited, and there is a chance you may be out of reach of one when you need one.

But then again, I'm a fatalist, when it's my day to die, I die, until then I live. "You might get killed", to my mothers dismay, was never a phrase that held much sway.

 

[Henning]

The Colorado Pilots Association recommends that you do not fly the passes in a light GA plane when the winds are above 25kts. If you like flying in the mountains when winds are 70kts please don't come to Colorado, we don't want your plane littering up our mountains.

There is a significant amount of cumulative flying knowledge (millions of hours? and accident reports) that goes into those recommendations, I'd not be bold enough to challenge it.

Well, I typically have plenty of power available to me, and going downwind... I'll take a 70 kt tailwind through the mountains any day. Trying to work to weather is another subject. I spent a lot of time in those mountains doing photo and video survey for geologists. I had a turbo normalized twin that had the ability to get over 25,000' if I needed it, but my job was down next to the ground spotting and recording features. You can safely operate in there even when the conditions are less than favorable. But on a nice day in mid September coming eastbound in a Dutchess, I wouldn't rule it out until I was in Utah.... There's a good chance that in the time frame he's going, he'll have perfect weather.