Long forgotten regulations of the past

ujocka

ujocka

Filing Flight Plan
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ujocka
Just wondering if some of the seasoned pilots (aka old dudes) on here can remember any of the old regs they used to have to abide by that were changed many moons ago. I'm only 41 so my flying stories only go back to the mid/late nineties when complex didn't require the a/c to have retract, constant speed prop and flaps, and solo time didn't count as PIC as a student pilot.

I'd like to walk down memory lane and get some enlightenment on how it was before I was.
 
PPL required 20 hours solo, 20 hours dual. The "long" XC had three 100 mile long legs. You needed 200 hours for an instrument rating. Weather coding was different. Instead of Class A, B, C, D, E and G airspace, they had real names. There was no tailwheel or high altitude signoff. That's what I remember offhand.
 
Everskyward said:
PPL required 20 hours solo, 20 hours dual. The "long" XC had three 100 mile long legs. You needed 200 hours for an instrument rating. Weather coding was different. Instead of Class A, B, C, D, E and G airspace, they had real names. There was no tailwheel or high altitude signoff. That's what I remember offhand.
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I've heard about the airspace names before. Do you remember what they were?
 
Everskyward said:
PPL required 20 hours solo, 20 hours dual. The "long" XC had three 100 mile long legs. You needed 200 hours for an instrument rating. Weather coding was different. Instead of Class A, B, C, D, E and G airspace, they had real names. There was no tailwheel or high altitude signoff. That's what I remember offhand.
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All that and no high performance or complex sign off, no Mode C Viel.
And IIRC, no transponder requirement above 10K MSL.
 
TheTraveler said:
I've heard about the airspace names before. Do you remember what they were?
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ARSA, TRSA, TCA

Airport Radar Service Area - like Class D
Terminal Radar Service Area - Like Class C
Terminal Control Area - Like Bravo

Or so I recall...
 
SCCutler said:
ARSA, TRSA, TCA



Airport Radar Service Area - like Class D

Terminal Radar Service Area - Like Class C

Terminal Control Area - Like Bravo



Or so I recall...
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Would you call it easier than the letter system? In other words, was the change for better or for worse, regardless of intent?
 
TheTraveler said:
Would you call it easier than the letter system? In other words, was the change for better or for worse, regardless of intent?
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Impossible to say cause we already learned one. Switching was annoying but well promoted, pre interwebby too imagine that.
 
By the way TRSA's still exist, although there are only a few of them.
 
TheTraveler said:
Would you call it easier than the letter system? In other words, was the change for better or for worse, regardless of intent?
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Since change always sucks there was a lot of resistance and retraining, especially because it seems to me that the airspace letter system and the weather coding changed at the same time. I think whatever you use all the time is easiest and now the letter system (and the weather coding) is second nature. I don't think either way is "better", but I believe the reason was to harmonize with ICAO (which will turn a certain segment of people off right there).
 
IIRC they added a dual night cross country to the PP sometime after I got mine.
 
Everskyward said:
PPL required 20 hours solo, 20 hours dual. The "long" XC had three 100 mile long legs. You needed 200 hours for an instrument rating. Weather coding was different. Instead of Class A, B, C, D, E and G airspace, they had real names. There was no tailwheel or high altitude signoff. That's what I remember offhand.
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Wow, you are really old! :rofl:

;)
 
Everskyward said:
Since change always sucks there was a lot of resistance and retraining, especially because it seems to me that the airspace letter system and the weather coding changed at the same time. I think whatever you use all the time is easiest and now the letter system (and the weather coding) is second nature. I don't think either way is "better", but I believe the reason was to harmonize with ICAO (which will turn a certain segment of people off right there).
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It is like the US manufactured automobiles and their European styling. Hell,if I wanted a European styled auto, I would just buy one. I certainly preferred the then current US style. I thought adopting the so called international style sort of like giving up home rule.
" Line up and wait" my ass.
 
We used to say "Position and Hold". Although that ones not that old.
 
US is the model system, best not to euroize it.

I heard back in the day spins were required before a PPL.
 
TheTraveler said:
Would you call it easier than the letter system? In other words, was the change for better or for worse, regardless of intent?
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I'm not sure about most people, but for me it was a HUGE change for the better when that occurred.
 
I can't recall all of the weather changes, but I know the temperature and dewpoint were given in F.
 
James331 said:
US is the model system, best not to euroize it.
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Actually I think most of the world was doing it the other way and we were the outlier. I'm sure that's true with "line up and wait".
 
Everskyward said:
Actually I think most of the world was doing it the other way and we were the outlier. I'm sure that's true with "line up and wait".
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"Position and Hold" made more since to me.

"Line up and Wait" makes me feel like a school kid waiting for permission to outside.
 
SCCutler said:
ARSA, TRSA, TCA

Airport Radar Service Area - like Class D
Terminal Radar Service Area - Like Class C
Terminal Control Area - Like Bravo

Or so I recall...
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Actually, a Terminal Radar Service Area is like a...terminal radar service area. They haven't gone away.

An Airport Radar Service Area is like present day class C

An ATA (Airport traffic Area) is most similar to present day class D

I passed my PP check ride in '94. In addition to what was already mentioned, the following things still existed:

SAs (surface analysis) instead of METARs

Pre-consolidated FAA operated FSS in the continental US

ARROW with two Rs

DF steers

Pilots who flew without headsets!
 
Brad Z said:
Pre-consolidated FAA operated FSS in the continental US



...

Pilots who flew without headsets!
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Used to be able to learn a lot about the weather when you could walk in the front door and talk to a weather briefer.

I did the latter once. Just to try it. Back then. It wasn't awful but you'd be deaf in a lifetime of doing it, for certain. And many were.
 
Control Zones - airspace that was normally a circular area with a 5 mile radius and extensions as necessary for instrument approach and departure paths at certain airports. Extended up to the Continental Control Area.
 
SCCutler said:
ARSA, TRSA, TCA

Airport Radar Service Area - like Class D
Terminal Radar Service Area - Like Class C
Terminal Control Area - Like Bravo

Or so I recall...
Click to expand...

ARSAs became Class C with airspace redesignation. TRSAs are still with us. Class D airspace was established at airports with Control Zones and control towers but without a TCA or an ARSA.
 
roncachamp said:
ARSAs became Class C with airspace redesignation. TRSAs are still with us. Class D airspace was established at airports with Control Zones and control towers but without a TCA or an ARSA.
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Well, I was guessing (as if that hasn't become obvious!).

I never flew under the old system.

Thanks, all, for the clarification.
 
Brad Z said:
An ATA (Airport traffic Area) is most similar to present day class D
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Class D airspace is the spawn of Airport Traffic Areas and Control Zones, both were required for US Class D airspace, but only at those airports that did not have a TCA or an ARSA. Although they did fudge on the control tower at a few locations.

Pre-consolidated FAA operated FSS in the continental US
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In 1994 the FAA operated a Semi-consolidated FSS system. In the early eighties there were about 360 Flight Service Stations in operation, these stations were consolidated into 61 Automated Flight Service Stations.
 
over50 said:
Control Zones - airspace that was normally a circular area with a 5 mile radius and extensions as necessary for instrument approach and departure paths at certain airports. Extended up to the Continental Control Area.
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Control Zones were not and Surface Areas are not standardized on a five mile radius. The distance is 3.5 NM plus the distance from the Airport Reference point to the end of the outermost runway rounded up to the next tenth of a mile, with possibly some adjustment due to sloping terrain. Any extensions are to accommodate arrivals.
 
ARFlyer said:
"Position and Hold" made more since to me.

"Line up and Wait" makes me feel like a school kid waiting for permission to outside.
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It's pretty weak:

If it wouldn't be too much of a bother, and I wouldn't ask if it wasn't extra super important, but would you please line up and wait just for a little bit. So sorry for the inconvenience.
 
There was no Complex endorsement, only HP. I believe that changed in 97, the same time solo/PIC changed.

I do not have a Complex endorsement, although I regularly fly a retract Bonanza. I got the HP in 94, and have PIC time before 97 in a retract.

I am definitely getting old when anything I do is grandfathered in.
 
Reedster said:
Well at least I am "English Proficient" now. It says so right on my cert.
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ARFlyer said:
Yep, ICAO Level 3. What's dumb is some places want you to test Level 5 English proficient! :rolleyes:
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I tested to a level 6 on my ELP. ;)

What's funny is the Chinese and Korean pilots all have level 6 certification.......it's not who takes the test, but who gives the test that counts. :rolleyes:
 
silver-eagle said:
Mostly forgotten but I frequently refer to class b space as a TCA. http://www.westwingsinc.com/AIRSPACE_EXPLAINED.pdf
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LA_WAC_1971.jpg


Reedster said:
I can't recall all of the weather changes, but I know the temperature and dewpoint were given in F.
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I still write down notes from weather briefings in the old format, with the old sky cover symbols. It's good shorthand.

Learning to fly at Fullerton CA in the mid-1960s, this was a familiar sequence report: FUL -X2HK. And who can forget W0X0F?
 
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