Logistics of Buying (especially in another state)

AU_James

AU_James

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Feb 7, 2017
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James
So I'm currently patiently waiting to find a plane that I want to buy. I have financing and insurance lined up, ready to execute when I meet "the one."

I'm patiently waiting... However I have widened my search area to anyplace that I could drive to and get back home in the same day after spending some time at the location (so, 5-ish hours away).

My biggest question comes when you think you have found a plane and you've contacted the seller, looked at all the pictures, reviewed the logs that have been sent/uploaded somewhere, you understand the equipment/avionics, you know the prices you're thinking of and you're ready to press further.

Now I want to have an unbiased IA of my choosing give it a hard look. I have some ideas, but how have you gone about finding this type of service? A little bit based on this thread (https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/prebuy-next-2-days-help-me-with-cold-feet.103375/), it seems like I can call around and have the plane delivered to a local place (to the plane) and blindly have an IA at least start the inspection, and then perhaps I drive out there during the inspection to go over the plane with the inspector and talk about what has been found, etc. I definitely want to see the plane at this stage in person whether it's bad news or not for the experience and education and to see the insides of my potential future plane.

Suppose the pre-buy goes well or at least well enough that I'm still wanting to purchase the plane given further negotiations. I assume I would need to plan a completely separate trip because the paperwork and actual purchase would probably take too long to make it all work during the initial trip to see the plane during/post pre-buy. Or is this something that could very well happen quickly assuming all the paperwork has been lined up and ready?

Also, what about a pre-purchase flight? I would want to actually fly the thing to make sure all the systems work and that it feels.... right. I also assume this happens after the pre-buy inspection.

I'm just looking for a little advice and experience so I know the actual logistics of buying a plane that's further than an hour drive away. Again, I'm being completely patient, but I like to know the ideal steps that are to be taken when the moment arises. I've already missed what was probably my "perfect" plane because I was a few days too long thinking about it and want to be prepared for the next one! Thanks everybody.
 
Almost any plane will be more than a hour drive away that you want to look at. Find a nice plane that fits your mission. Have a party that has never worked on the plane do a prebuy. Hiring SAVVY is a good way to get some great help with the process. Get a instructor to fly it home with you if it all checks out or get someone to ferry it.

https://www.savvyaviation.com/savvyaviation-home/savvy-services/savvyprebuy/

Well worth the money to use them. Could save you big time.
 
Set aside some $$ for a couple of airline tickets. Limiting your search to only your somewhat-local area is going to exclude a LOT of good candidates. You can do a lot of due diligence via email with pictures, etc.
 
You might want to consult an aviation tax consultant and ask about taxation in your state, the state that the plane is in, and whether to use a broker or go direct with the seller (if that's a choice.) There are tax implications that you might be able to avoid if planned properly. I used Aeromarine Tax Profesionals in California, and they were great at providing guidance.
 
If you are getting a loan on the plane the bank will dictate the technicals of the sale. They will insist on Title Insurance and handle the transfer of the money and the paperwork.

If you have a loan from somewhere else that doesnt put a lien on the plane, then YOU need to contact an Aircraft Title Company and have the title searched. The most common problem is previous liens that have not been released (they may have been paid, just didnt do the release paperwork). All this can be fixed. You want to be sure the seller pays off his lien if there is one.

My method is to meet at the plane, the seller signs the paperwork, the buyer phones his bank and does electronic transfer of funds and then the buyer owns the plane! The seller verifies the transfer before handing over the keys. There is a form you get from the FAA that has to be signed and the Registration has to be signed as well I think. Im a little fuzzy on the exact paperwork, but airplanes don't have titles like cars. They use a Bill of Sale instead. There may be state sales tax and state registration as well.

Its not Rocket Science, but most pilots can stumble their way through it. But do the effort to get the Title searched. That one if worth the effort. Otherwise, when you go to sell the plane there will be title problems to clear up at that point and the seller to you may be long gone.
 
In my case the plane was several states away so I ended up doing the following:

1. Reviewed emailed logs for any red flags.
2. Signed pre-purchase agreement and sent deposit.
3. Flew commercial out to test fly and personally inspect the plane.
3a. While there talked to the shop I chose for pre-buy about my concerns.
3b. Flew home commercial.
4. Owner took plane to shop I chose.
4a. Shop found airworthiness issues.
4b. Due to cost, seller chose to have their mechanic fix issues.
4c. Seller took plane back to my mechanic for final sign-off to send to bank(and I had it signed off as an annual as well and paid the shop a small additional fee)
5. Sent deposit to escrow and paperwork to bank. (Escrow company and bank handled all title checks, etc)
6. Closed escrow, seller got paid.
7. Flew commercial out again with my flight gear(and a towbar, one was not included with sale)
8. Flew the hours needed with a local CFI to keep the insurance company happy.
9a. Tried to find oil the seller had been using for a couple spare quarts. Talked to shop doing last oil change, ended up with a couple spare quarts of the same grade from different manufacturer.
9b. Couldn't find Plexus and couldn't bring my can on the airline flight. Cleaned windshield with water and microfiber to remove texas sized bugs.
9c. Realized I didn't have a funnel, made a mess due to wind blowing the oil around.
10. Started flying back home
10a. Wished I had my Oxygen bottle to top cumulus in AZ/NM. Dodged underneath instead.
11. Now sitting in a hotel for a couple days due to some work and personal stuff I wanted to do on the trip home instead of going direct.
11a. Bought funnel
Next
12. Harris Ranch
13. KSQL
14. Home
15. Clean off bugs and schedule oil change. (I should have had the oil change done as part of the pre-buy/annual, and then I would have had spare oil)
 
I bought my first plane on the other side of the country...here was my process.

-Found it listed and it was a broker handling the sale for the seller. Sent pics and info back and forth.
-Haggled a bit and agreed verbally on a price if it was exactly as represented and subject to the inspection with option to walk at ANY point in the process until title transfer.
-Lined up a local A&P with recommendations from this board.
-Flew to seller to see plane...met my expectations visually.
-Took logs to A&P for his review...passed
-Seller flew plane a few miles to my A&P
-A&P did a "pre buy" inspection with instructions to stop at any serious red flags...passed.
-Left a $4k deposit check with broker with agreement in writing that I could still walk with full refund for ANY reason.
-I flew back home (I was on the ground 48 hours) and A&P continued to a full annual inspection
-A&P found a few airworthy issues and a few option issues. Seller agreed to discount airworthy issues and I paid for optional things
-Wired broker the money, A&P did the work, flew back commercial two weeks later, paid the A&P and flew her home

Easy Peasy...for that kind of investment I was OK with a few plane tickets to make the deal happen.
 
Well the chances of you finding what you're looking for within a short drive, I mean this isn't like buying a pair of slacks. So be prepared to settle for less, pay way more, or just keep renting.

Normally if you're looking for a plane, agree on a price, check it out on the ground, plane and paperwork, adjust price or walk as needed, test flight against book numbers, checking all systems and avionics, adjust price or walk as needed, now pre buy inspection, adjust price or walk as needed, sign paperwork hand over cash and go on your merry way.
 
I appreciate sharing your experiences. I think that mainly lifting the fog of the unknown helps settle nerves and allows me to not look like a first time buyer necessarily. I have zero issue with buying plane tickets and spending a little bit of money even if the plane or deal doesn't go through, but obviously I want to limit it if possible.

With this information I'll comfortably expand my search area to at least the eastern half of the country or to places I can fly to easily/quickly rather than taking the entire day to travel to California (and considering the time needed to fly her back home at some point).
 
The guy I bought my first plane from told me this story. He and his mechanic went down to Jasper GA to look at a Husky. They were sitting in the guys hangar and the guy came in and said "the keys are in the top drawer, I gotta go to New Orleans (in his jet), if you want the plane, leave a check for xxx in the top drawer and Ill sign the paperwork and send it to you. Bye" Now THAT is a bit tooo casual...
 
The Registration has to be signed and then FAA form AC form 8050-1 and AC for 8050-2 have to be filled out and signed by the seller. You can find these on the internet and print them out.
 
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8050-1 is for the Buyer to fill out. A copy of this form also serves as your temporary registration and must be kept in the plane until the registration arrives.
 
I bought both of my planes out of state and without seeing the plane until just before handing over the final check. My first was a 172 I bought to get my PPL. I shopped a lot of sites to find candidates. The first three choices were near pilots I knew and were all rejected following a look over by my friends. The final choice was in a state where I didn't know anyone. As others have listed after agreeing to a price based on no airworthy issues I sent a deposit and had a pre-buy done by a well recommended shop the owner didn't know. The owner paid to have a few issues resolved and then delivered the plane to me since I didn't have a license. There were no surprises after the purchase and I flew the plane for 9 years.

The current plane is a 177 RG I found in Michigan. After the usual negotiations and a deposit I had a pre-buy done by Keith from Cardinal Flyers and after working out minor issues he found I flew to Detroit, met up with my ferry pilot / instructor, and flew the plane to home near Houston then finished off the insurance company required transition training the next day. Again, there have been no surprises in the nearly 4 years and nearly 500 hours I've had the plane.

My take is do your homework and don't worry about buying out of state.

Gary
 
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