Locating the runway

cowman

cowman

Final Approach
PoA Supporter
Joined
Aug 12, 2012
Messages
5,405
Location
Danger Zone
Display Name
Display name:
Cowman
So hypothetical... possibly common scenario:

You are inbound for landing at an uncontrolled airport you've never been to before. You know what runway you want based on winds, the gps is telling you it's right in front of you 5 or 6 miles ahead. You know about where it should be in relation to nearby landmarks but your eyeballs just won't locate the runway so you can set up for a proper pattern entry and landing.

What's the ideal response to this?

I'm thinking climb to 500-1000' above pattern altitude and just overfly the airport until you see it, then fly out a ways adjusting course so you come in where you want to be and descend to pattern altitude and make a normal midfield downwind entry(announcing position/intention on the radio).

What if it's a class D field with an active tower? Ask the tower if you can do the same, ask for directions/vectors? What if it's a class C?
 
My cfi always had me stay 1500 above TPA until I could see the field.

I have heard pilots ask my class D tower for vectors, so it's not unheard of. But not all towers have radar so it might be tough for them to find you, first.
 
A few things. For Class D airports they often do not have radar so vectoring may be a problem. However often landmarks that quite distinctive may be of help. Also keeping you GPS at the highest mag that shows the airport and your position. For uncontrolled the GPS trick works as well. In addition I will fly over the field at about 500 ft TPA, announcing as well. Google maps, or the maps on DUAT also helps a lot to show you the terrain. A little bit of preflight familiarization helps a lot. I also try to imagine the field in my mind and that gives me help as well.
 
How can you miss a big blue or magenta circle on the ground? :dunno:
 
cowman said:
So hypothetical... possibly common scenario:

You are inbound for landing at an uncontrolled airport you've never been to before. You know what runway you want based on winds, the gps is telling you it's right in front of you 5 or 6 miles ahead. You know about where it should be in relation to nearby landmarks but your eyeballs just won't locate the runway so you can set up for a proper pattern entry and landing.

What's the ideal response to this?

I'm thinking climb to 500-1000' above pattern altitude and just overfly the airport until you see it, then fly out a ways adjusting course so you come in where you want to be and descend to pattern altitude and make a normal midfield downwind entry(announcing position/intention on the radio).

What if it's a class D field with an active tower? Ask the tower if you can do the same, ask for directions/vectors? What if it's a class C?
Click to expand...

If it's a towered airport, the tower will tell you what runway and pattern to set up for. If you have a hard time seeing the runway as you get close, just tell them and they will try to tell you where to look.
 
Let's ignore GPS fornthis discussion. Your CFI has a great suggestion of being higher until the airport is in sight. You can always descend to pattern altitude and enter the pattern properly after a circuit or two.

Also, practice with Google earth, as suggested, to get an idea of geography.

I have this problem with airports in the plains in Colorado. The area is still in drought and everything is brown and it can be a problem to see the airport from a distance even when I know where it is!
 
I agree with staying higher until you can see it (as much so you don't blow through the pattern at TPA as to give you a better look angle), but at the end of the day, it's a matter of practice.
 
Yup, climb and look. If the tower is controlled talk to the controller. I was instructed to land on 9R once and didn't see a 9R. One runway was white, the other black and my eye got fooled. Kept up the chatter with the controller and all was well.

It used to be routine that I'd have trouble spotting runways from the air but I haven't had any difficulty with that in some time.
 
Find a landmark to enter the 45 with. Towered or nontowered.

By the time you get to the 45, if the airport isn't in sight, go into "lost" mode and stay at least 500 above the highest pattern altitude consistent with airspace restrictions. Most likely, it's going to be right in front of you.

If you're 5 miles out and can't see the airport, you're either looking in the wrong place or it's MVFR. It can be surprisingly hard to spot an airport among industrial farms or in the city at low altitude.

If it IS MVFR, you can use crossed radials (be precise!) or the OBS mode on a GPS to find the airport and the 45. But landmarks should suffice.
 
Last edited:
Overfly the airport above pattern altitude,that will give you a view of the windsock and condition of the runway. You may even get the name of the airport. Will also help you to establish the pattern correctly ,without guessing.
 
There really is an art to spotting airports, especially grass strips. We have one local airport around here that's a popular lunch destination - I've been there a bunch of times and always have problems seeing it. The paved rwy just doesn't line up right with where I expect to see it, or it's in a low area, or something, but I always have trouble with that one.
 
There are a number of web sites you can visit to get an overhead shot of the airport vicinity...AOPA's is good. I would use my computer to get a good look at the destination airport surroundings before I ever got into the plane.

Bob Gardner
 
And don't forget, there may be more than one pattern altitude. Many airports have a TPA 500' higher than the normal one for turbine aircraft. Don't blow through at their pattern altitude thinking your 500' above TPA.

John
 
bobmrg said:
There are a number of web sites you can visit to get an overhead shot of the airport vicinity...AOPA's is good. I would use my computer to get a good look at the destination airport surroundings before I ever got into the plane.
Click to expand...
Just remember that what you see in overhead imagery may be very different from what you see at the low grazing angle you get from the cockpit.
 
MAKG1 said:
Find a landmark to enter the 45 with. Towered or nontowered.
Click to expand...
That's very much in line with what I teach student pilots. Not so much the need for a 45° entry but the use of a landmark about 10 miles from the airport as a final checkpoint before the airport. Fly over the checkpoint, turn to the on-course heading from there to the airport and, whether you actually see the runways or towers or buildings or not, what you are looking at is where the airport is. Head in that direction and you'll likely see it before running into the pattern.

I use the same techniques when teaching mountain flying to pick out the pass you want from what can look pretty uniform.
 
bobmrg said:
There are a number of web sites you can visit to get an overhead shot of the airport vicinity...AOPA's is good. I would use my computer to get a good look at the destination airport surroundings before I ever got into the plane.

Bob Gardner
Click to expand...

This. Google Earth really comes in handy to spin the view to the direction of flight and set the altitude.

This made it real simple to pick very obvious landmarks for entering the general area and then 15, 10, & 5 miles from the airport.

Ron Levy said:
Just remember that what you see in overhead imagery may be very different from what you see at the low grazing angle you get from the cockpit.
Click to expand...

True. But this is why I like Google Earth for this task. Google Maps does have the zoom level, but Earth actually sets the altitude. And if you're in one of the hi-resolution zones (like big cities) you might be able to view the imagery in their psuedo-3D.
 
Last edited:
See if you can find a video of a landing at the airport of interest - it may provide some visual clues when you do it in real life.

I was surprised to find videos on Youtube and Vimeo that pilots have made of their landings at some airports I would thought were too low traffic to have anyone videotape their landings. This was the case when I decided to fly into 5S1 (George Felt, OR), 6S6 (Powers, OR), and 9S3 (Lakeside State, OR). These are all grass runways. Finding videos may require use of some mix of keywords like "landing", "airport", with the airport ID or name.

I am new at this, so spotting grass fields has not been easy - I expect to see them sooner than I do. The result is that I typically end up overflying them and maneuvering into the pattern as appropriate. Since grass fields may have critters on them it is probably a good idea to overfly even if you spot the airfield from a distance. An additional complication is when the airfield is in a valley such that TPA puts you below the valley rim or close enough to cause a bit of ground shyness. The only viable entries are straight into upwind or downwind legs.
 
I did my first long XC since getting my license yesterday and landed at two airports I had never flown into before.

The first one was KGLS in Galveston, TX. I looked at Bing maps to get the layout and then watched a few youtube videos of people landing there to get a visual. I did the same thing for the other airport.

Galveston was easy because there were enough visual cues. I have a HSI so what I do is put my heading bug on the rwy heading and then get where I know I'm 90 degrees perpendicular and fly that in (even if you aren't going to get 90 degrees it's helpful to still know your course relative to the direction of the runway). You'll eventually see the airport layout even if you can't see the runways - but you know you are perpendicular to the runway you are going to use so when you can see it - you just make a turn to downwind. Galveston was tower controlled but he still told me to enter downwind and call him.

On the other airport it was similar - less landmarks though. So, I had ForeFlight open on my iPad (connected to Stratus) and just got lined up where I was heading a little south of the airport knowing I was going to enter a downwind turn heading north and then land coming back to south. Same thing - lined up my heading bug and just flew perp to the runway I was going to use. Eventually, I saw the runway and all I had to do was turn to enter downwind.
 
Last edited:
I dunno - finding an airport is half the fun.

I especially like it at night, when you spot the beacon and start working your way to it, only to realize that's the beacon for the wrong airport. It's really fun when they happen to be lined up on your course and you are looking at the far beacon and miss the one right under your nose.
 
MAKG1 said:
If you're 5 miles out and can't see the airport, you're either looking in the wrong place or it's MVFR. It can be surprisingly hard to spot an airport among industrial farms or in the city at low altitude.
Click to expand...
There are some airports out there, not only grass strips, that seem to blend in with their surroundings, and are surprisingly difficult to find, even from 5 miles out. In Florida you would think they would stick out like sore thumbs, but occasionally that is not the case. Some of them seem to have camouflage, and unless you know exactly what you are looking for can be amazingly difficult to find. As I have gotten more hours this has become less of a problem, but I remember a few times during training I was looking directly at the airport and it did not register. It was like those Magic Eye pictures that you could not see the hidden 3d picture until you learned the trick.
 
Dial in the approach, and just follow the glideslope to the number :)
 
Ron Levy said:
Just remember that what you see in overhead imagery may be very different from what you see at the low grazing angle you get from the cockpit.
Click to expand...

I recall a series of questions set up with a pair of photos like that on either the pilot (probably) or nav qualifying tests when I was in AFROTC oh so many decades ago. :D
 
I learned in Central Kansas and you can see the airport a long ways out.

I flew to Marshall, Texas, Harrison County, and had a hard time finding the airport due to the trees.

It has since had the runway lengthened and is easy to see, but 1st time was learning experience.

Stay above pattern altitude until you find it. Also, fly it on Google Earth before flying it for the first time.
 
Henning said:
Doe the airport have an instrument approach? If so, fly it.
Click to expand...

Not always possible; most approaches are GPS approaches, and not all aircraft are GPS equipped.

Not always desired, as instrument approaches can take you miles out of your way, and put you in front of much faster aircraft.
 
I find that rather than aiming directly for the airport based on the GPS, I have an easier time if I aim a couple of degrees to the right and stay at least 500ft high so I can look for it out of the left window.

With the precision of GPS, it is easy to set yourself up to end up straight over the airport which is the most difficult vantage point to actually see it.
 
Some airports are just danged hard to see when you're coming in for the first time ever. Hidden by trees or hills. Buried in a mass of buildings, etc.

I too try to look at a new field on google maps or earth and get a feel for it. Just knowing which side of a small town a small airport is located is extremely helpful.

There's only one that I found repeatedly hard to find. Hartselle, AL (5M0)...which was a fuel stop when I was working in Georgia. A north/south runway completely hidden behind trees when coming in from the west. Many times I'd be right on top of it before seeing it.
 
Last edited:
MAKG1 said:
Not always possible; most approaches are GPS approaches, and not all aircraft are GPS equipped.

Not always desired, as instrument approaches can take you miles out of your way, and put you in front of much faster aircraft.
Click to expand...
True. However if you are VFR there is no reason you have to do the full approach. You are using it to find the airport and just enter the approach at the IAF or FAF at a altitude higher than the glidescope, and higher than the TPA and after identifying the airport enter the pattern in an appropriate fashion. Use of the radio in a judicious fashion will allow others to know what you are doing, and where you are, and will allow you to know where they are. This works real well for a uncontrolled field, but I have done(early in my flying at an airport I had never been to) it for a controlled field when I was cleared for a straight in and even used it for a clearance for a base entry at another airport.
 
From time to time, I have seen the OBS mode be used to show a runway...:yes:
 
I find that if the runway doesn't stick out, look for hangars. Hangars are significantly different than industrial or retail buildings. Also, the airport (usually) has clear area around it. So look for hangar-type buildings in an island of open land.

Also, runways can be hard to spot if they are perpendicular to your heading. If it's an airport that I expect to have trouble seeing, I'll pick a heading that keeps me 10 miles or so out and on an extended centerline. The runway pops right out as you get closer to parallel.
As others said, stay high until field in sight.
 
If you're close, just land on the street and ask for directions.
 
If it is an uncontrolled field, click on the pilot controlled lighting, particularly if they have REILs, they are usually easy to pick out.
 
i always do this durnig vfr flights when i have a gps on board. it backs me up and shows pretty much how i should enter the traffic pattern
Kelvin said:
From time to time, I have seen the OBS mode be used to show a runway...:yes:
Click to expand...
 
Generally I never lose altitude until I have visually made the airport (when flying a Cherokee anyway). While descending with the Comanche I stay pretty high until I make the airport unless its an airport I have been to many times before and knew the local details. Nothing worse than running 1000' agl and searching for an airport you have never been too. In some areas this is extremely difficult in others its not so bad but as a rule I do not do it.

If you have trouble finding airports from high and far then you might practice turning off the GPS and go out and do some pilatage. Touch up your pilatage skills and it will make things flow together better.


cowman said:
So hypothetical... possibly common scenario:

You are inbound for landing at an uncontrolled airport you've never been to before. You know what runway you want based on winds, the gps is telling you it's right in front of you 5 or 6 miles ahead. You know about where it should be in relation to nearby landmarks but your eyeballs just won't locate the runway so you can set up for a proper pattern entry and landing.

What's the ideal response to this?

I'm thinking climb to 500-1000' above pattern altitude and just overfly the airport until you see it, then fly out a ways adjusting course so you come in where you want to be and descend to pattern altitude and make a normal midfield downwind entry(announcing position/intention on the radio).

What if it's a class D field with an active tower? Ask the tower if you can do the same, ask for directions/vectors? What if it's a class C?
Click to expand...
 
it helps to squak 5 x and light up the correct airport.

Matthew said:
I dunno - finding an airport is half the fun.

I especially like it at night, when you spot the beacon and start working your way to it, only to realize that's the beacon for the wrong airport. It's really fun when they happen to be lined up on your course and you are looking at the far beacon and miss the one right under your nose.
Click to expand...
 
So true, my first visit to an airport in the Phx metro area-concrete Jungle I couldn't make anything out.... I followed the heading until it became obvious but it was a trick.


douglas393 said:
There are some airports out there, not only grass strips, that seem to blend in with their surroundings, and are surprisingly difficult to find, even from 5 miles out. In Florida you would think they would stick out like sore thumbs, but occasionally that is not the case. Some of them seem to have camouflage, and unless you know exactly what you are looking for can be amazingly difficult to find. As I have gotten more hours this has become less of a problem, but I remember a few times during training I was looking directly at the airport and it did not register. It was like those Magic Eye pictures that you could not see the hidden 3d picture until you learned the trick.
Click to expand...
 
There's a neat iPad/iPhone App that uses augmented reality and lets you "see" where the airports are from the sky. You just run the app and point the camera out the window! It's called "ARPort"
screen568x568.jpeg
 
CT4ME said:
There's a neat iPad/iPhone App that uses augmented reality and lets you "see" where the airports are from the sky. You just run the app and point the camera out the window! It's called "ARPort"
screen568x568.jpeg
Click to expand...

Holy crap, that is cool...
 
CT4ME said:
There's a neat iPad/iPhone App that uses augmented reality and lets you "see" where the airports are from the sky. You just run the app and point the camera out the window! It's called "ARPort"
screen568x568.jpeg
Click to expand...

Now there's one to have with Google Glass!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top