Little question on buying a block rate, but mainly just excitement

[KSCessnaDriver]

Very informative stuff here. I may have just found myself in a situation similar to the OP, so I was reading up on this. Lots of good info here, and it made me really think it through. Thanks for all the help you guys give.

 

[brcase]

I looked through the policy today, they want a MINIMUM of 300 hrs. Which I think is a little bit of a reach for me at 75 hrs to get that by the renewal in June. He said he was going to do some shopping around when he renews again so maybe I can get him to get a lower time on the open pilot deal.

Go back to the insurance company and tell them you only have 75 hrs. Then ask if there is any other way to meet the insurance requirements.
These are requirements are often negotiable.
I would guess the would probably substitute 5-10 hrs of dual in the make and model.

I had a friend who bought a C-140A. The insurance company wanted him to have 5 hours dual with an instructor that had 10 hrs in make in model. C-140A's are pretty rare and there were no instructors around here that had 10hrs in one. We went back to them and explained the situation, they then had me do 3 hrs of solo time in it before I could check him out in it.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL

 

[TangoWhiskey]

Even if you get status as named insured make sure you can cover the deductible. An inexpensive renters policy (as mentioned above) may help with that.

If you get put on somebody's policy as a named insured, how will you know when (if) they make a call to the insurance company and pull you off the policy to save a few $$$? They're still covered. You're not. That scenario would scare the heck out of me.

 

[TangoWhiskey]

Alright, so after talking with the agent again, he said that the underwriters don't usually grant a waiver of subrogation unless its like a CFI getting named on the policy for flight instruction. He then told me that I was covered under the policy from the definition of "insured" in the policy which I have attached. I specifically asked him about purchasing non-owner protection and he said for this aircraft no, I am covered.

I then called a different agent for Falcon and asked his opinion on the waiver and he told me the same thing. Also, that the named insured only deals with the owner. He said that the only reason the insurance would subrogate was if they found me to be negligent and they want to keep that right by not giving me a waiver. This agent then recommended getting a non-owner policy to cover myself.

So it sounds like I either need to be a partial owner in the plane to be a named insured, or buy non-owner coverage. Which at $200 to be a named pilot and the at least $300-$400 for a non-owner policy, this is getting spendy.

Doesn't paragraph (d) mean you're not covered? He's the named insured, and you've agreed to pay him for use of the aircraft.

 

[TangoWhiskey]

I wish you luck. It takes a long time. I've been actively looking for better than about 7 months and finally found this one.
You might try the guys that have theirs posted for sale in the FBO. Someone my not want to sell it but has to cause he can't keep it on his own. So you may be able to come in and help out. Never hurts to ask.

Great suggestion!

And congrats on getting your own set of keys. I like how you worked this out (double coverage, your own policy + his).

 

[bigred177]

If you get put on somebody's policy as a named insured, how will you know when (if) they make a call to the insurance company and pull you off the policy to save a few $$$? They're still covered. You're not. That scenario would scare the heck out of me.

From what I found out, you can only be a named insured if you are a part owner of the aircraft. And if that is the case, only you can take yourself off, since you are in the same position as the other person.

I asked the agent and the only way I could be a named insured was if I was on the registration.

I may be off though.

 

[bigred177]

Doesn't paragraph (d) mean you're not covered? He's the named insured, and you've agreed to pay him for use of the aircraft.

It doesn't seem that way to me, but I'm not too good at reading this sh-tuff (yet). Maybe a few of you guys could tell me what it looks like to you and if so, I'm just paying for gas...

 

[bigred177]

Great suggestion!

And congrats on getting your own set of keys. I like how you worked this out (double coverage, your own policy + his).

And thank you. I just wished I would have found him sooner, I'm leaving in a few months

 

[SCCutler]

From what I found out, you can only be a named insured if you are a part owner of the aircraft. And if that is the case, only you can take yourself off, since you are in the same position as the other person.

I asked the agent and the only way I could be a named insured was if I was on the registration.

I may be off though.

Or the agent may be wrong (hint - the agent is wrong).

A carrier can name anyone they want as a named insured - it's simply a contract of insurance.

Maybe they need to find a new agent, one who can get a little more creative and aggressive with the carriers and their underwriters.

 

[bigred177]

I agree. I am going to strongly suggest a new insurance company come renewal time. Seems these guys lack in a few areas.

 

[azure]

Or the agent may be wrong (hint - the agent is wrong).

A carrier can name anyone they want as a named insured - it's simply a contract of insurance.

Maybe they need to find a new agent, one who can get a little more creative and aggressive with the carriers and their underwriters.

When I was in a non-equity arrangement a few years ago, our agent said the exact same thing. The rationale was that they could not pay damages to a non-owner in the event of hull damage. The agent said that otherwise, named pilot was equivalent to named insured and that they would not subrogate except in cases where damage was caused by gross negligence. However, they balked at putting that in writing, and I caved and went along. If I was doing it again, I'd insist on their signing a waiver of subrogation.

 

[bigred177]

When I was in a non-equity arrangement a few years ago, our agent said the exact same thing. The rationale was that they could not pay damages to a non-owner in the event of hull damage. The agent said that otherwise, named pilot was equivalent to named insured and that they would not subrogate except in cases where damage was caused by gross negligence. However, they balked at putting that in writing, and I caved and went along. If I was doing it again, I'd insist on their signing a waiver of subrogation.

That is almost word for word what I got. Which is why I went for the non-owners policy too, since it didn't really seem worth the effort to fight them on a subrogation waiver, which they probably wouldn't have given me anyway.

 

[bigred177]

Went up today to get acquainted. The owner was going to come with me but he ended up having to do something else and told me to go on anyway. Had a nice .8hr solo ride. Took off and then orbited the field for a few laps just in case she decided to stop running on me. Everything went well so then we headed out to the practice area and did some slow flight, stalls, steep turns, ect... Came back in and had two pretty nice landings and then back to the tiedowns. The biggest treat though, was getting to see this come by and then take off

He was having a 530 and some other avionics put in and going for a test flight.

He has a jump seat in the back I might need to see if I can sweet talk him into a $1000 hamburger.

Overall she's a nice flying plane, very docile. I enjoy the 20 more horsepower over the 160 models I've been flying.