List of Ethanol-Free Gasoline States?

Jay Honeck

Jay Honeck

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Jay Honeck
Is there an on-line source where one can determine which states have unpolluted gasoline?
 
You can get it in Nebraska. It is extremely hard to get it in Minnesota (a few places have it, classic cars, motorcycles, off-road vehicles only).
 
I didn't realize it was so hard on newer engines and especially ATVs until my husband did some research. For cars and ATVs there's an additive called Startron or something like that, that we're using. Somehow it supposedly negates the effects of ethanol. I don't really know anything about it. It was apparently developed for boat motors because the ethanol is bad for them as well. So why are companies putting ethanol in gas???
 
jlwilson said:
I didn't realize it was so hard on newer engines and especially ATVs until my husband did some research. For cars and ATVs there's an additive called Startron or something like that, that we're using. Somehow it supposedly negates the effects of ethanol. I don't really know anything about it. It was apparently developed for boat motors because the ethanol is bad for them as well. So why are companies putting ethanol in gas???
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Because no one has the balls to tell the government to go **** themselves, and make every excuse they can to not do so.
 
EdFred said:
Because no one has the balls to tell the government to go **** themselves, and make every excuse they can to not do so.
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And it's only going to get worse instead of better, I'm afraid...
 
Jay Honeck said:
Is there an on-line source where one can determine which states have unpolluted gasoline?
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You can find it in SC, just have to look for the places without the sticker. A few gas stations advertise the fact that their fuel has no ethanol.

Getting more difficult to find places that don't have it though.
 
jlwilson said:
I didn't realize it was so hard on newer engines and especially ATVs until my husband did some research. For cars and ATVs there's an additive called Startron or something like that, that we're using. Somehow it supposedly negates the effects of ethanol. I don't really know anything about it. It was apparently developed for boat motors because the ethanol is bad for them as well. So why are companies putting ethanol in gas???
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I thought we were talking about airplanes. The newer engines have no trouble with ethanol.
 
EdFred said:
No argument here. People are too scared.
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As much as I may agree, I don't want this to get political and banished to the Spin Zone.

I can currently get ethanol-free gasoline at my local gas stations here in Iowa, and use this fuel exclusively in both of our airplanes. We're looking at relocating to Texas, and I'm trying to determine whether or not it's possible to obtain unpolluted car gas for use in my airplane.

Anyone know?
 
Here are two possible sources, but caveat emptor
http://www.chouby.com/apps/autogas.html
http://www.airnav.com/plan/fuel/
With AirNav, it is probably good to check public and private, no need for any special approaches, and check any FAA airport. If you plot a trip from KIOW to KLAX, you will see at the top of the page a number of airports nationwide with autogas. If you go from KIOW to KSEA that number will change. Why? I haven't a clue.
So, the answer to your question is probably, "maybe, but probably not".
If you buy and fuel yourself, it's easier to find than if you rely on it being on the airport.
 
I recall a thread a year or so old, maybe on AOPA, that suggested it was getting harder to find in Texas, but you may be able to get it directly from a distributor. Sorry my memory is not better. You'll probably end up having to call some airports and maybe gasoline distributors near where you may move to see. There is also the potential for bringing it on the field yourself if you can find a source.
 
wbarnhill said:
You can find it in SC, just have to look for the places without the sticker. A few gas stations advertise the fact that their fuel has no ethanol.

Getting more difficult to find places that don't have it though.
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The lack of a sticker means nothing. 10% crapenol is now the standard they're not marking the pumps. At least that's what they're doing in Colorado. North Texas and Oklahoma was doing the same thing when I was there about a year and a half ago. Not sure about Kansas since I didn't stop for fuel there - I wasn't about to pay $5.05/gallon when I knew $4.30 was only 250 miles further along.
 
jesse said:
You can get it in Nebraska. It is extremely hard to get it in Minnesota (a few places have it, classic cars, motorcycles, off-road vehicles only).
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Maybe. Some stations in NE got busted in 2008 for putting the E10 in the "unenriched" tanks and selling it for the higher price. Even if the station is honest, acidents happen too- so verify the fuel in ethanol free.
 
Jay Honeck said:
As much as I may agree, I don't want this to get political and banished to the Spin Zone.

I can currently get ethanol-free gasoline at my local gas stations here in Iowa, and use this fuel exclusively in both of our airplanes. We're looking at relocating to Texas, and I'm trying to determine whether or not it's possible to obtain unpolluted car gas for use in my airplane.

Anyone know?
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Jay... in the urbanized areas - Houston, San Antonio, Austin, DFW, all the fuel is cut with ethanol.. up to 10%. Your only REAL solution in those areas if thats where you are basing, is to buy a tank and buy it in 500 gallon or 1000 gallon increments from the refiner. Not much of a price break on it either at those small quantities. HOWEVER, auto fuel that is used in planes (as well as other certain off road uses) is exempt from State fuel taxes which is an 18 cent/gallon discount right there. (you can also get reimbursed for buying it from the pump, but have to track the reciepts).

I'd be interested in talking with you (privately or publicly) about your relocation plans.. Lived in Texas since I was 8... and can perhaps help you network with folks who aren't on the POA grid..

Still looking at Rockport?
 
There are several mogas stations in SE OK that offer 'ethanol-free' gas. It seems to be a popular selling point now. And the prices are the same as the 'other' gas... I haven't seen as many of the same signs in NE TX, but gas is usually so much cheaper in OK that we try to fill up on the way to the ranch and not buy any in TX.
 
Jay, as mentioned above, other than the urban counties where it is required, gasoline in Texas does NOT have ethanol in it (or, as I am wont to say, is not contaminated).

I do not believe that the gas in Austin (Travis County) has ethanol, however. The counties with mandatory ethanol content are shown in red in this map.

http://www.ftc.gov/os/2004/04/gaspricesappb.pdf

Because ethanol must be added at the truck level (it cannot be pre-blended and pipeline-transported or stored at length in a blended form), it is unusual for a gasoline distributor to put ethanol into gasoline for sale at locations where it is not required to be done.

This also makes sense, in that selling ethanol-tainted gasoline in places where it is not legally required would expose distributors to backlash from customers because of significantly-higher fuel system repair requirements associated with te use of ethanol as a motor fuel, as well as the substantially poorer fuel economy yielded when ethanol-blends are used.

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Edit:

You should not expect ethanol at Port A.
 
Not quite the problem that it was a bit over 20 years ago, but when I bought my 1986 Dodge van the salesman's parting words were, "Don't put Ethanol in this vehicle. It will take out the seals in the fuel system." A few years later, California mandated the stuff and the next thing I knew I had gasoline pouring over the top of the engine when the seals in the carb failed. Cost me around $400 to get the system re-built with materials that could tolerate Ethanol. And, no, California did not offer to pay for the damage.
 
I have yet to find a station in Austin or the surrounding counties that does not have blended gas. And I have been actively searching. If anyone knows somewhere, I would drive out of my way to get it.
 
Jay, I just looked at your route from IOW to RAS (is that the correct identifier?) and it looks like our local little airport, LLU is right on your route. If you need fuel as you're passing by, we have ethanol-free mogas on the field. The same guy delivers it to LLU that delivers it to our tank at the farm. Besides, if you stop here, we'll take you out to lunch. :)
 
pmanton said:
I'm in LaPaz County Arizona. The local stations have alcohol free mogas. Not so in the bigger counties like Maricopa.
Cheers:

Paul
N1431A
2AZ1
www.indianhillsairpark.com
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Paul,

I've checked into it here (I'm in Casa Grande - Pinal County) and the distributors WILL sell it to you. It's no big deal for them since the ethanol is added at the rack, not at the refineries. The issue I've found is that no one is willing to sell less than a tanker full. I'd have a hard time using 8,000 gallons myself. I'm trying to get the city to buy a tanker just fuel straight from it. I think they'd be surprised how fast it would go and they might actually pay to put in a permanent infrastructure for mogas.

Joe
 
jlwilson said:
I didn't realize it was so hard on newer engines and especially ATVs until my husband did some research. For cars and ATVs there's an additive called Startron or something like that, that we're using. Somehow it supposedly negates the effects of ethanol. I don't really know anything about it. It was apparently developed for boat motors because the ethanol is bad for them as well. So why are companies putting ethanol in gas???
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Joyce- IIRC, the issue was with the gas tanks. The ethanol apparently damages the fiberglass tank and causes leaks. I've heard this from enough sources that I believe it is true although I don't know the chemical mechanism by which this occurs- if someone had asked me, I'd have said it wouldn't happen.

If Jay is going to live near the water, maybe he can get EtOH free gas from a marina.
 
SCCutler said:
This also makes sense, in that selling ethanol-tainted gasoline in places where it is not legally required would expose distributors to backlash from customers because of significantly-higher fuel system repair requirements associated with te use of ethanol as a motor fuel, as well as the substantially poorer fuel economy yielded when ethanol-blends are used.

---

Edit:

You should not expect ethanol at Port A.
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That is excellent news.

In the interest of fairness, there is one positive thing about ethanol: In the extremely cold weather we're experiencing in Iowa, ethanol-tainted gas is excellent at preventing gas-line freeze. It's basically like driving your car with a dozen cans of "Heet" in it.

(Which, of course, always makes me laugh when I see folks at the pump freezing to death while they dump a little-bitty container of Heet/ethanol/methanol into their tank -- that they just filled with 10% ethanol-laden gasoline. Thus proving PT Barnum's adage...:smile:)
 
slowjoe said:
The issue I've found is that no one is willing to sell less than a tanker full. I'd have a hard time using 8,000 gallons myself.
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For sure.

I've got a fuel truck that I've used to haul gasoline to my airplanes in since 2003. In that time, I've run over 11,000 gallons through it -- but it's taken me 7 years to do it.

With the issues of mogas not "aging" as well as "avgas" (at least, according to "common knowledge" -- which may be just another "old wive's tale") you wouldn't want to be using gas that old in your plane.

Luckily my tanker truck only holds 55 gallons, so between flying, lawn mowers, snow blowers, leaf blowers, etc., the gas in the transfer tank turns over pretty much every week...
 
Diana said:
Jay, I just looked at your route from IOW to RAS (is that the correct identifier?) and it looks like our local little airport, LLU is right on your route. If you need fuel as you're passing by, we have ethanol-free mogas on the field. The same guy delivers it to LLU that delivers it to our tank at the farm. Besides, if you stop here, we'll take you out to lunch. :)
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Thanks for the offer, Diana!

Trouble is, we're barely reaching cruising altitude by the time we sail over your place. With 84 gallons on board in the Pathfinder, we can make it to Houston non-stop -- although our bladders usually make us land at Ft. Smith, Arkansas instead! :yikes:
 
Drive the purple grape to the local fuel distributor and buy 250 at a time..
That is what we have to do in Michigan where crap gas is mandated...

denny-o
 
One can often have farmer elevators or COOPs deliver a smaller amount than a semi tanker. Probably a couple of hundred gallons - they're used to small deliveries so smaller farms.
 
It only got up to 54 there today... BRRRR!
 
Cap'n Jack said:
Joyce- IIRC, the issue was with the gas tanks. The ethanol apparently damages the fiberglass tank and causes leaks. I've heard this from enough sources that I believe it is true although I don't know the chemical mechanism by which this occurs- if someone had asked me, I'd have said it wouldn't happen.

If Jay is going to live near the water, maybe he can get EtOH free gas from a marina.
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Its not the fiberglass thats damaged, its the EPOXY/RESIN (that holds the fiberglass together) in some instances that is not durable against the ethanol. Some are, some arent. Its an expensive lesson to learn after the fact.

This is a known concern in the canard / fiberglass plane community, since the fuel tanks on fiberglass planes tend to be fiberglass as well. Cant remember which particular brand of Jeffco or epoxy the "family" has recommended. Some of the homebuilders have test coupons that have been sitting in jars of gasoline for years that they remove and weigh/examine for degradation periodically.
 
jnmeade said:
How can you be objective about Corpus when it's January in Iowa? :smile::smile:
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Iowa doesn't have hurricanes.

Pretty much anything on the ground level (or more like, less than 22 feet above MSL) along the coast is uninsurable from a flood insurance standpoint..

Many of the big insurers are not writing new policies for windstorm along the coast.. The Texas Windstorm pool has essentially been bankrupted by Ike and Dolly and now.. is the costliest (if not only) game in town.

Given that the stuff on the north side of the bay doesnt have much critical infrastructure, just how quick do you think FEMA and the state are going to be getting resources back in there, and how quick do you think power, water, sewage and such would be turned back on.

Less than 100 miles north, Bolivar Peninsula, 15 months after Ike, has literally a few bars, one grocery store and 2 gas stations running.. the fire station is gone, they park the trucks under the middle school (its on stilts). The road was nearly washed out, and goes under water during a high tide with a strong south/onshore wind..

Jay has to factor in being able to rebuild on his own nickel, or surviving an entire tourist season without income... and that may be the year AFTER he moves in, or the 10th year later.. Or if we really **** off the hurricane gawds, do it two years in a row.

I wouldn't be taking a decision to move to a barrier island lightly either.
 
slowjoe said:
I've checked into it here and the distributors WILL sell it to you. It's no big deal for them since the ethanol is added at the rack, not at the refineries. The issue I've found is that no one is willing to sell less than a tanker full. I'd have a hard time using 8,000 gallons myself. I'm trying to get the city to buy a tanker just fuel straight from it. I think they'd be surprised how fast it would go and they might actually pay to put in a permanent infrastructure for mogas.
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Does anyone know what you're actually buying if/when you do this? Buying fuel before ethanol is added means you have fuel that is not "oxygenated" since it has neither ethanol, ETBE, or MTBE in it. How does this affect the fuel? What's the octane level? Does this fuel comply with ASTM specifications D-4814 as required by the MoGas STC?

I don't know the answers to the above, I'm not a chemist, I'm just asking.

But, my gut feeling is that, if you do this, you're experimenting in an area where you really don't want to be (or should be) going. But maybe not since oxygenates simply allow the fuel to burn cleaner...
 
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