List of ADS-B Out xpdrs and options?

BigBadLou

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Hi gang,

my google-fu is escaping me today. I am looking for a nicely organized list of different ADS-B Out transponders with options (possibly prices) etc. No luck.
Does anyone have a nice link?

Thanks in advance.
 
It isn't hard to find products. Simply call AOPA, Aircraft Spruce, Sporty's or any avionics shop you like and they will update you. The 2016 list is about 6 months old. The vendors and products on that list are still out there (Garmin, Aspen, Lynx, GRT, Trig, Sarasota, Sandia, Bendix, Dynon).
 
nothing like getting closer to the deadline to increase the number of choices, drastically improve the feature set, and get prices into the range of reasonableness.

3 or 4 years ago, about all we had was the FreeFlight RANGR box, and that was in the 7 to 9 AMU range. Now we have lots of good choices (and more to come) at half that and occasionally less.
 
nothing like getting closer to the deadline to increase the number of choices, drastically improve the feature set, and get prices into the range of reasonableness.

3 or 4 years ago, about all we had was the FreeFlight RANGR box, and that was in the 7 to 9 AMU range. Now we have lots of good choices (and more to come) at half that and occasionally less.

The Freeflight is also half that now too. It's a great box for people that don't want a new transponder.
 
For experimentals or for factory-built standard cert?

Standard cert.

I think the pipeline is done, and haven't seen anyone else announce anything, unless there is a stealth player who wants to go head to head with Garmin, now that they're playing in the price game.

I kinda doubt it. I think for standard cert, we know all the players at this point. At least until the mandatory date.
 
There are 2 I know of working on ARC, said about 1300. I also spoke to a very reliable source today who confirmed that few others are working with FAA and planning to announce at Oshkosh. If i were the OP, I will wait

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Damn autocorrect...STC not ARC

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
 
Oshkosh 2017 is probably "the last dance" for anyone building who's running late, at this point, I suppose. This was part of the discussion with my co-owner today... probably schedule for a fall install NOW (most shops are booked) and let them know we're still going to watch for an OSH deal or announcement.

Leaning toward Garmin 345 right now... but a 335 would be just as legal and that's the one they're discounting heavily to match Stratus right now.

One question is, once the "mandate date" passes... can Appareo/Stratus survive on their very limited product line, and how long... USB power ports aren't going to pay the bills after 2020.

Hate to not pick a Garmin competitor, but ... hmmm...
 
Check out the Avidyne AXP340.
 
Man, you folks have never been to Vegas. I picked up a pristine $300 used GTX327 this week to replace the KT76A (which will net me at least $100). So $200 to push buttons and look at a nice display instead of spinning knobs with analog windows for two years: I'll take it. Install under supervision has no backlog and is cheap (granted, IFR cert is due anyway). Then, someone will come out with a nice sub $2k equipment ADS-B out solution, or the deadline will get extended, or something. Any way I look at it, I like the odds.
 
Oshkosh 2017 is probably "the last dance" for anyone building who's running late, at this point, I suppose. This was part of the discussion with my co-owner today... probably schedule for a fall install NOW (most shops are booked) and let them know we're still going to watch for an OSH deal or announcement.

Leaning toward Garmin 345 right now... but a 335 would be just as legal and that's the one they're discounting heavily to match Stratus right now.

One question is, once the "mandate date" passes... can Appareo/Stratus survive on their very limited product line, and how long... USB power ports aren't going to pay the bills after 2020.

Hate to not pick a Garmin competitor, but ... hmmm...
If you check Appaero's website, the adsb and other GA products are only part of its business.
 
Aviation Consumer has a nice "grid view" of the current products in the may 2017 issue. Send me an email address and I'll forward a PDF version of the article once it's online for me to grab.
 
If you check Appaero's website, the adsb and other GA products are only part of its business.

I did look. USB charging ports and not much else unless their site sucks and only shows a partial grid.

Didn't look like much that could support say, a major component malfunction (say a bad chip supplier -- it happens) and repairs more than a couple years past the deadline.

How many units of these things are going to sell after that? It can't support much in the way of support staff and what not.

Plus it's really hard to ignore that Garmin is price-matching them. Much bigger company, much better long term survival chance.

I doubt anything either one makes will last as long as the poor venerable ARC/Cessna transponder has at 43 years, nobody overspecs components like that anymore... the Chinese surface mount components from today just won't last that long. Highly unlikely anyway.
 
Plus it's really hard to ignore that Garmin is price-matching them.

In what way is Garmin price-matching Appareo? I did not think Garmin offered a product that was comparable to the ESG, which has a built-in GPS.
 
In what way is Garmin price-matching Appareo? I did not think Garmin offered a product that was comparable to the ESG, which has a built-in GPS.
GTX 335. And Garmin throws in the GPS antenna if you need one.
 
GPS is optional, I thought it was $2995 without, and an $800 extra for GPS, but that was on Garmin's site. I guess Sporty's has it for the same price as the ESG.
http://www.sportys.com/pilotshop/garmin-gtx-335-transponder-with-waas.html

According to one of the local Garmin dealers the 335 plus internal GPS now price matches the Appaero.

The 345 with or without GPS does NOT however. But it's not a whole heck of a lot higher.

They're basically matching Appaero at the "I just want legal ADS-B OUT and don't have a certified GPS source to feed the transponder" buyers, and dangling the carrot a little higher for those who want ADS-B IN sent to mobile devices or any other sort of display device they already have on board.

Garmin got real serious about whacking their competition over the head around SnF time this year, I think.

Probably because the number of installed ADS-B units compared to the number of aircraft that will need them by 2020, is pretty dismal. People were simply waiting it out, and Garmin nor the installers want the mad rush in 2019.

Not even half of the available $500 FAA rebates have been claimed yet, and the number of available rebates was considerably below the number of aircraft expected to need the gear by 2020.

Many shops now, at the three year out point, are already booked out months on installations, and don't want to hire a bunch of staff and then toss them in three years. So they've been pressuring manufacturers to come down more on pricing.

Garmin is being pretty smart about it. They know even if you're buying the low end 335, that'll likely make you pretty likely to look to them for other things in the future. GPS wise, they've got the solid GTN series (and the older stuff which nobody knows when they're really going to have to stop supporting them, but the install base is massive as a percentage of manufacturers used) and they made sure the 335 could get data from all of those.

Then to entice the crowd that needs new CDIs to put in a Garmin GPS, they dropped the G5 at a fairly impressive price point for a device that can replace a gyro, display a bunch of data from a Garmin GPS, and also behaves as an HSI, removing the need to both build old needle movement based CDIs for Garmin and also offering a gyro replacement with solid state.

Put two in, and the last gyro in your panel is the turn and bank, and your need for vacuum disappears. And they'll display each other's data in a reversionary mode if the display on one or the other fails.

That setup is the Aspen killer with street price on the G5 running $2800. Remove all vacuum gyros (or keep them as backups), display GPS info, plus digital HSI, and all for less than $6000.

About the only "miss" for a lot of folks but not all, is not having plans to drive a heading bug / autopilot information out of the G5. That for many autopilot setups currently in use, is a game over problem with the G5 for some owners, and makes the resulting panel a hand-flown only panel.

Will be interesting to see how Garmin addresses that. Will they hack a heading bug and some sort of output of heading bug and DG information out of the G5 later on? Make a G6 (or whatever they want to call it)?

For a hand-flown panel, any Garmin IFR GPS, the 335/345, and one or two G5s comes in at a "not stellar but not insane" price point, for avionics anyway. The G5 in particular dumps a LOT of cranky mechanical components in a very small and reasonably priced package, when compared to a traditional HSI or CDI and really shines at replacing both at the same time.

If... it works as advertised. Seems like there's enough of them out there that they're at least viable and not being a total headache for owners.

Still early. Haven't talked to anyone who has seen a service manual yet. Of course.

Aspen really gets left in the dust here. Similar sized display. Can't display ALL the stuff an Aspen can, but Garmin already displays a lot of stuff Aspen could, directly on the display of the GTN series.

Fits in the same holes as the Aspen. Has its own internal GPS if needed for certain things.

Anyone think Avidyne has an answer to any of this either? I'm not thinking they will for a while. And I've counted out Honeywell/King in the GA low end market for quite a while now.

Very interesting timing on Garmin's part. Beats up multiple competitors in the same year.
 
That setup is the Aspen killer with street price on the G5 running $2800. Remove all vacuum gyros (or keep them as backups), display GPS info, plus digital HSI, and all for less than $6000.

Are you trying to compare one G5 STC version to an Aspen? Only the experimental version can do anything near Aspen functionality with one G5. The two G5s with the GTN/GNS adapter is priced $5024 at aircraftspruce.

The installation manual for the HSI is not available yet but honestly, judging by the quotes folks are getting for ADS-B upgrades, installation costs are going to price these out of reach of many people.

Many airplanes haven't had a the pitot/static leak checked in many years which is required by G5 attitude indicator (AI) STC instructions, so expect a search and fix mission when they leak (more $$$)

<speculation alert> The HSI G5 will probably require installation of a magnetometer at the very least, which could be troublesome to get passed the compass swing. My guess is these will end up near wing tips like so many are, so adding costs to running those wires. I'm guessing also that this will have a standby battery just like the AI G5 has, and will require the capacity test be accomplished per the Instructions for Continued Airworthiness also like the AI G5. The capacity test is dirt simple but each battery is $150, so if you had two G5 and both batteries failed at an annual that adds $300 to the bill in parts.

Everyone who buys should be aware of these details.

(see section 4 Airworthiness Limitations)
http://static.garmin.com/pumac/190-01112-11_01.pdf

I'm not sure what the standby battery for the Aspen costs or how many years they last.
 
For anyone with a Garmin GPS WAAS navigator already in the airplane it didn't make much sense to choose anything but a Garmin transponder (330ES/335/345) for ADS-B compliance.

Appareo and L3-Lynx targeted those without a GPS navigator or those with a GNS 430/530 that did not want to pay Garmin's exorbitant price for the WAAS upgrade.

Garmin is merely responding logically to its competition. The 335/345 probably wouldn't exist, and Garmin would be pushing everyone into 330s, if it wasn't for the competition. What will be interesting is to see how the competition (whether transponder or G5 alternatives) respond.
Next up as the deadline approaches, a price drop for the 335/345 without the built in WAAS GPS?
 
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I'm waiting.....I think there's more to come. Soon they'll be slash'n prices too. :D
 
From what I have seen in the panels around my airport the Aspen is about a 4:1 favourite over the Garmin 500/600 as a left side of panel retrofit on IFR airplanes. The G5 isn't even in the running in those instances, and any IFR plane with boots (like mine) cannot get rid of the vacuum system in any case.

Aspen has an "entry level" single screen VFR product, but it is the same screen with some software "turned off" as I understand. That being the case Aspen probably has plenty of $ room to compete with the G5 for panel space in a Cherokee or Cessna. :D
 
Hi gang,

my google-fu is escaping me today. I am looking for a nicely organized list of different ADS-B Out transponders with options (possibly prices) etc. No luck.
Does anyone have a nice link?

Thanks in advance.

I'm getting ready to purchase an Appareo Stratus ESG transponder that provides GPS receiver, built in, plus GPS antenna. Hardware cost is $2995 and labor is $285 at a local Florida shop. I don't have a 430 or other GPS receiver in this plane so think this is a good solution to ADSB Out. I will use an IPad with Garmin Pilot software for the ADSB In.
 
The G5 w/o heading bug... to hand fly? Not for me if you want to frequently fly IFR to minimums. Sure I can, but to manage work load OTTO needs to help fly. Why would they even offer a product that wouldn't. I'm in the boat of not having a WAAS GPS, so like others have said, I'm sitting back and waiting for all of the options. The FAA should take note if only half of the rebates have been used, to know they should reconsider the 2020 deadline, as newer, more robust, and cheaper equipment is in the pipeline for the average joe owner...
 
Attached as a PDF file is the recent "grid" of ADS-B Mandate compatible products from the recent issue of Aviation consumer.

The image here shows you part of what you're going to be looking at.

upload_2017-4-27_8-56-26.png
 

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  • ADSB Product Grid.pdf
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Attached is another Aviation Consumer Article covering the latest details on the L-3 NGT9000 ADS-B Transponder.

One of the concepts about this device that has me watching it is they built it with the capacity to upgrade the firmware as tech and customer demand warrant. Similar to glass PFD's such as Aspen.
 

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  • L-3 NGT9000 ADS-B_ Expanded Capabilities - Aviation Consumer Article.pdf
    290.2 KB · Views: 17
Are you trying to compare one G5 STC version to an Aspen? Only the experimental version can do anything near Aspen functionality with one G5. The two G5s with the GTN/GNS adapter is priced $5024 at aircraftspruce.

Two. Last I looked, Aspen was significantly higher than that for their PFD.

Many airplanes haven't had a the pitot/static leak checked in many years which is required by G5 attitude indicator (AI) STC instructions, so expect a search and fix mission when they leak (more $$$)

If the aircraft is already IFR, it had better have had those checked in the last two years...

Our pitot/static guy just did it on ours three days ago so we could put a fancy new sticker in the aircraft logbook... along with the altimeter tests, the transponder tests, etc.

<speculation alert> The HSI G5 will probably require installation of a magnetometer at the very least, which could be troublesome to get passed the compass swing. My guess is these will end up near wing tips like so many are, so adding costs to running those wires.

Likely. Doesn't the Aspen require one also? If we're comparing the two.

I'm guessing also that this will have a standby battery just like the AI G5 has, and will require the capacity test be accomplished per the Instructions for Continued Airworthiness also like the AI G5. The capacity test is dirt simple but each battery is $150, so if you had two G5 and both batteries failed at an annual that adds $300 to the bill in parts.

They do have a battery. It's listed as optional. The question is, designing a backup. Do you leave a regular (vacuum or electric) AI in the panel for a blacked out cockpit... but that same design problem comes up in an Aspen setup. I would assume there's little price difference between Garmin's and Aspen's.
[/QUOTE]

In a comparison between the Aspen and G5 dual setup... I think if you do NOT need autopilot or heading bug... the dual G5 wins. Many airplanes don't have an A/P and spending over $10,000 on one isn't in the cards. I think Garmin was really smart to STC that thing.

Like I said, if you're dumping a physical gyro and getting an HSI, those two together is well worth the price of admission at $2800 for one and not awful at your $5024 to dump two gyros doing it and also get a backup display mode across both .

Any costs to run magnetometer wires would have been there in any other slaved HSI install also, and if you're dumping vacuum altogether, that recurring expense goes away... bye bye vacuum pump... so the batteries become that...

It doesn't work for most A/P equipped aircraft obviously, though. Non-A/P or A/P driven off of electric turn and bank? I think they hit a sweet spot many will take them up on.

Be interesting to see where they go with their A/P lineup. Especially once they see if they want to compete against TruTrak once that's out.

That they didn't do a heading bug (even without GPSS outputs) is a minor annoyance. I could see that being a software update down the road. Dual-use of the baro knob shouldn't be impossible.
 
I'm getting ready to purchase an Appareo Stratus ESG transponder that provides GPS receiver, built in, plus GPS antenna. Hardware cost is $2995 and labor is $285 at a local Florida shop. I don't have a 430 or other GPS receiver in this plane so think this is a good solution to ADSB Out. I will use an IPad with Garmin Pilot software for the ADSB In.
$285 install? It's almost worth it to fly from Denver to Florida...Best install estimate I've gotten is $1700.
 
Attached as a PDF file is the recent "grid" of ADS-B Mandate compatible products from the recent issue of Aviation consumer.

The image here shows you part of what you're going to be looking at.

View attachment 53133
And that's already out of date with the Aspen and Garmin price cuts.
 
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