Lightning strikes twice

lprellwitz

Pre-takeoff checklist
Joined
Jun 17, 2006
Messages
239
Location
Romeoville, IL
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Display name:
iBug
Morning, all. I'm tired, Grant's asleep, but I had to get this story out. This weekend has been amazing - a short stint in my dream aircraft, and something I (and, from what Grant tells me, Bruce) thought just doesn't happen, happened...


Grant and I are flying back from Traverse City this evening, heading along the lake at about 11 pm, VFR. We'd heard the briefer indicate that there was a convective sigmet and line of activity south of our home airport, tracking west to east, before we left. if we stay by the lakeshore, we should be OK. We're getting fight folllowing, things were going fine until we get to around muskegon, heading south, and then I see it - a first flash of lightning in the distant south. I'm still getting used to the sight picture of weather at a distance, let alone weather at night. sure looked to me like it was closer than they said....

So we're keeping in touch with flight service, they tell us that it's south around Kankakee, moving east, not heading up north. Meanwhile, we've still got a ways to go before we head west, those dang storms still look like they're getting closer, and they're firing up pretty regular now....

After a while, we're at around Michigan City, and the controller gives us the wonderful news: he's seeing an area of moderate to heavy precipitation X miles in front of us, between our 11 o'clock and 2 o'clock position.... don't want to divert south and risk getting too close to those storms (which were rolling along real good, and the coverage area was getting wider), and we did want to get home, so that sends us diverting a bit to the right, farther over the lake than we planned. Joy of joys...... I'm trying to stay cool, but it's my worst scenario: heavy thunderstorms in my vicinity, at night, that I can't see, we're over water, and have no flotation devices....

Looking at the GPS, our home airport is just about due west from our position. Problem is, at or altitude, you'd have to go though both Midway and O'Hare airspace to get there. We ask if there's any way we can get clearance through at least Midway's class C and go direct from where we are, avoid some of the dip to the south that we have to do. The controller said, 'well you'll have to ask midway approach, not sure what I can do, ... wait a minute, let me call approach; standby.."

We're waiting, going farther out into the water, those storms are having a heck of a party to the south, I'm looking for traffic and sweating like a turkey on thanksgiving, then the controller transfers us to another frequency on Chicago approach. We call them up, and the first thing they say to us is:

"Skyhawk 559FA, maintain current squawk, cleared through the Class B airspace to 1c5, advise before changing altitude."

:yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes:

All I can remember about my response is that it was rather enthusiastic, and included some 'Thank you, God!'s after I released the mike; I'm sure the controllers got a kick out of it.

Up until now, the only other time we'd been cleared through Class B in VFR was in Tampa, and we ended up getting rerouted and not needing the clearance. I'm convinved that miracles can happen.....

And BTW, i checked; the curent temperature in He!!, Michigan is well above 32 degrees ;)
 
Wait - you actually got cleared into Chicago's Class B? That is some lucky stuff. Always wondered if they'd step up in case of a weather emergency. Maybe they're not all bad afterall....

no....they are.
 
SkyHog said:
Wait - you actually got cleared into Chicago's Class B? That is some lucky stuff. Always wondered if they'd step up in case of a weather emergency. Maybe they're not all bad afterall....

no....they are.

It is rare but it does happen. I have gotten in once FR, several times IFR. But it ain't easy. Tampa, San Diego Class B, no problem.
 
The only time i have ever been refused class B clearance from chicago, has been in the evenings from 6 to 8, never had a problem at other times.
 
wesleyj said:
The only time i have ever been refused class B clearance from chicago, has been in the evenings from 6 to 8, never had a problem at other times.
Are you talking VFR in a single spinner, or what? Most of the time, they won't even acknowledge our initial callup! (And no, I don't think it's just us:no:)

This time was around midnight, so I think that played a big part of it. The view of the city and of Midway at 6,500 was gorgeous!

And there was an Air Mexico (or something like that) jet who was worse on the air than I ever remember being! (Ah, the joys of selective amnesia:rofl:)

After we entered class Bravo, we actually heard another VFR plane cleared into Bravo.
 
gprellwitz said:
Are you talking VFR in a single spinner, or what? Most of the time, they won't even acknowledge our initial callup! (And no, I don't think it's just us:no:)

This time was around midnight, so I think that played a big part of it. The view of the city and of Midway at 6,500 was gorgeous!

And there was an Air Mexico (or something like that) jet who was worse on the air than I ever remember being! (Ah, the joys of selective amnesia:rofl:)

After we entered class Bravo, we actually heard another VFR plane cleared into Bravo.
That was the key. It was midnight. It is nice to know a Class B clearance is possible. I'm sure the FSS briefer conveyed your urgency.

Don't you ever do that again! Couldn't you have turned around and headed north?

Did you risk losing the horizon over the lake at night?
 
mikea said:
That was the key. It was midnight. It is nice to know a Class B clearance is possible. I'm sure the FSS briefer conveyed your urgency.

Don't you ever do that again! Couldn't you have turned around and headed north?

Did you risk losing the horizon over the lake at night?

It was CAVU heading west, no problems there.

I didn't feel the sense of urgency that Leslie did; FSS reported the storms as being 35NM south of the lakeshore. That matched my look at the radar before we departed 1.5 hours before, so I felt we would be safe along the shore as originally intended. There was a slight patch of haziness that might have indicated some rain around Michigan City, and I wanted to head a little north over the lake to avoid it, but would have been comfortable flying through. ATC was saying moderate precip at 10-20 NM and, while I didn't see it, agreed with Leslie that we might as well request clearance through Bravo. Moderate precip as reported by ATC is still very formidable, and I want to avoid it in a small plane.

Engine had been running fine for four hours, and we were certainly in sight of land at all times, though it might have stretched the glide a little had we had a sudden and total engine failure during a period of about 2 minutes.

In short, I was comfortable with the trip and our performance.
 
I flew to Whitted in St.Petersburg this weekend and got cleared through Tampa both ways. It was my first time flying in Class B.
 
lprellwitz said:
Morning, all. I'm tired, Grant's asleep, but I had to get this story out. This weekend has been amazing - a short stint in my dream aircraft, and something I (and, from what Grant tells me, Bruce) thought just doesn't happen, happened...
We call them up, and the first thing they say to us is:

"Skyhawk 559FA, maintain current squawk, cleared through the Class B airspace to 1c5, advise before changing altitude."

:yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes:

All I can remember about my response is that it was rather enthusiastic, and included some 'Thank you, God!'s after I released the mike; I'm sure the controllers got a kick out of it.
After 11:00 p.m. they sometimes turn into bored humans again. I mean, something about those supersecret "only over 12,500 lb" radios malfunctions and they actually behave like controllers again..... 11:00 p.m until about 5:000 a.m.:goofy:
gprellwitz said:
After we entered class Bravo, we actually heard another VFR plane cleared into Bravo.
I knew it! It had to be late at night to pile up his 7 VFRs per shift!
 
JRitt said:
I flew to Whitted in St.Petersburg this weekend and got cleared through Tampa both ways. It was my first time flying in Class B.
I couldn't help noticing this, since Leslie's maiden name is Whitted! I think that Albert was one of the slave-holder family. They had their plantation in North Carolina.
 
bbchien said:
After 11:00 p.m. they sometimes turn into bored humans again. I mean, something about those supersecret "only over 12,500 lb" radios malfunctions and they actually behave like controllers again..... 11:00 p.m until about 5:000 a.m.:goofy:I knew it! It had to be late at night to pile up his 7 VFRs per shift!

Thanks Bruce, I knew we could count on you! :rofl::rofl:
 
gprellwitz said:
This time was around midnight, so I think that played a big part of it. The view of the city and of Midway at 6,500 was gorgeous!

I was coming form the SE to the NW around ORD one fine summer night. It was 11:30pm, not a cloud in the sky with great vis. Could not see another plane in the sky and not a peep on the frequency. Same controller was workign several sectors and he still would not let me in VFR. He suggested "I go low and under'. Not safe IMHO and he should not have suggested it.
 
ogogog said:
when i grow up i want to work at PIA so i can have a c130 a rj and a flib on the freq at the same time, thats some real tin pushing, whoooooo doggieeeeeeeeeee, thats some real air trafficacontrollen.

Gee with an atitude like that you wonder why we all do not speak highly if the C90 controllers??
 
smigaldi said:
Gee with an atitude like that you wonder why we all do not speak highly if the C90 controllers??
Yeah. Because there's no airspace as busy as ORD like oh, maybe,... NYC where they routinely clear VFRs into the Bravo(s)...and THAT of course, means they respond to radio calls from them..
 
mikea said:
Yeah. Because there's no airspace as busy as ORD like oh, maybe,... NYC where they routinely clear VFRs into the Bravo(s)...and THAT of course, means they respond to radio calls from them..

Yeah but Chicago airspace controllers have traffic for two major airports in their Class Bravo whereas New York has it for only three major...um...well...Ah never mind:p:p:p
 
ogogog said:
lets see NY three airports have less ops than chicagos two airports, gee i wonder who works more traffic?
It may be less but I guess that the arrival and departure pattern are much more complex than those used for KORD. And yet they can accomendate VFR traffic. So tell us all why is it that C90 has such a bad rep and does little to serve the entire flying public?
 
smigaldi said:
It may be less but I guess that the arrival and departure pattern are much more complex than those used for KORD. And yet they can accomendate VFR traffic. So tell us all why is it that C90 has such a bad rep and does little to serve the entire flying public?

Well, here's the testimony:

ogogog said:
when i grow up i want to work at PIA so i can have a c130 a rj and a flib on the freq at the same time, thats some real tin pushing, whoooooo doggieeeeeeeeeee, thats some real air trafficacontrollen.

He's said it all. Enjoy the pay cuts.

Funny thing was, I was going to post somthing nice, as C90 actually gave me FF out of PWK today. FOURTH of July. First time in SIX years. "Chicago departure, dare I request FF to PIA?"
But that attitude. Ja_sus. "When I grow up I wanna be an self centered all important skylord and ignore the flivvers who pollute my turbojet airspace". Sheesh.
 
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SJP said:
I passed on your comments to the Controllers Union and Flysafe...I'm sure they'll be glad you are promoting such a positive image of Controllers with your customers.

Thanks for visiting...I'll make sure never to trust my life, or the life of anyone I know to you or anyone you associate with.

Problem is....who is ogogog? Would they know who ogogog is, and would they care that someone is showing such disrespect to pilots?

Methinks not.
 
ogogog said:
you mean the same disrespect that has been shown to me on many other posts,when all ive tryed to explane what goes on at c90 and i just get mocked by dr koolaide and the rest.i guess around here it only goes one way.im wondering what disrespect ive shown to pilots,

Well, um, read this thread and the one other thread I recall you participating in which was similar. Dr. B is a very well-respected member of this community.

Now, what exactly DOES "go on at c90"? Why do you ignore callups? Why is your rep so bad that Chicago Center gives advisory routes to avoid your airspace "If you want continued flight following?" Why is it that no other class B in the nation has the same reputation, even BUSIER ones like Atlanta? I have yet to see any coherent answers to these questions, and believe me, I'd sure like you to give us the other side of the story! But please do it without belittling people. You're not helping your case any when you do that.

maybe just a few who diserve it

Like those who call up with a tail number instead of a flight number?

by the way ive been a pilot in the chicago area for 22 years also.

Do you try to call c90? Do they answer? :rofl:
 
wbarnhill said:
Just a side note...

The FAA has a Chicago TRACON User Survey here:

http://www.faa.gov/ATS/c90/C90%20User%20Survey.html

Also, the mailing address and phone number is:

Chicago TRACON
1100 Bowes Road
Elgin, Illinois 60123
847-608-5509

Yeah, and to be sure you hear back on how much they really care for us little guys, be sure to fill in the box that asks you for your company or airline.
 
mikea said:
Yeah, and to be sure you hear back on how much they really care for us little guys, be sure to fill in the box that asks you for your company or airline.

Yeah, I noticed that too... :rolleyes:
 
What the hell. Nice to see that OgOgOg hits and runs like that.

You should point out to that idiot that replied to you that if you look at the quotes from Doc. Bruce, you can see what he said.

Its too bad Og is too afraid to stand behind his words.
 
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Steve chill. No need to get worked up by this OGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGO GONE person. You think they are annoying here try flying in C90's airspace and dealing with them sometimes. When I fly off to other areas of the country the services increase the hostility decreases.

With few exceptions C90 offer the basic service for flibs. I have dealt with a few controllers here that do go out of their way to serve the GA community. When it happens it seems as though a miracle has happened hence this thread as an example. But not all C90 ATCer are bad or have the atitude that was on display here by one of their co-workers.
 
smigaldi said:
It could be that OGOGOG deleted his own posts.
He did delete his own posts and then asked that his account be deleted.
 
So....I'll be flying up to 6Y9 in August....do I have to deal with C90? I'll have to look to see.
 
SkyHog said:
So....I'll be flying up to 6Y9 in August....do I have to deal with C90? I'll have to look to see.
Naw you'll deal with Chicago Center, good bunch of guys and they provide service to GA without the pain of C90. That is quite a haul for you. If you need a place to stop off in Northern Illinois before the final leg let me know, you have a standing invitation for a place to stay or just rest. I am planning on heading up there as well.
 
SkyHog said:
So....I'll be flying up to 6Y9 in August....do I have to deal with C90? I'll have to look to see.

Have to deal with 'em? Heck, if we had to deal with 'em, they'd be required to actually answer! :rofl:

Coming from the SW to 6Y9, I think a direct course will take you over IA, MN, and WI to MI, so you won't even be in IL at all.

If you do decide to head down by there and then eastward rather than straight home, the easiest way to avoid them is to either take the lakeshore route or go direct to KELSI or SHOOF before heading east. That'll keep you clear.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Have to deal with 'em? Heck, if we had to deal with 'em, they'd be required to actually answer! :rofl:

Coming from the SW to 6Y9, I think a direct course will take you over IA, MN, and WI to MI, so you won't even be in IL at all.

If you do decide to head down by there and then eastward rather than straight home, the easiest way to avoid them is to either take the lakeshore route or go direct to KELSI or SHOOF before heading east. That'll keep you clear.

KELSI is about 1NM west of my home airport of 10C
 
Just passing this on...

I received the following from Doug at the NATCA in reply to the thread http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8248

Just thought someone may be able to take up the issue of Chicago Airspace with some guys who think they might want to help.




Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 09:43:14 -0400 From: Doug Church <dchurch@natcadc.org> To:
Reply-to: dchurch@natcadc.org Subject: RE: FW: Fly Us Safe Your Opinion Steve,

Thanks for giving me some more background on this. I see your point now. The
C90 controller's comments are unfortunate and not endorsed or embraced by
the leadership of NATCA. I know the C90 union rep personally and I doubt
he'd be pleased by this either. We value our relationship with the pilot
community and I'm distressed that this exchange has led you to believe the
worst about controllers to the low point where you would actually think
privatization of the system would be better. Surely you and I can agree that
privatization would be the worst case scenario for both controllers AND
pilots, especially GA.

The only shred of truth in the controller's post is the part about how the
FAA imposed pay cuts won't affect everyone in the same way ... veteran
controllers at C90 are probably going to be OK overall, though I'm not
exactly sure and I don't want to speak for the facility. It's the new
controllers that are taking a 40-50 percent cut and many vets in other
locales are looking at 20-30 percent cuts. Many vets know it's not going to
be in their financial best interest to stick around and let the cuts and pay
freezes affect their retirement annuities, so they are seriously considering
leaving now. Many ARE leaving now. Seven at DFW TRACON have retired in the
past two months, with many more to follow in the next year or so. We do have
a serious staffing problem and we very much need the pilots' support.

I assure you this controller doesn't speak for the union. My offer from my
e-mail yesterday stands ... I stand ready to answer any questions or
concerns that either you or anyone from PoA have. If I don't know the answer
myself, I'll solicit the help of our NATCA facility reps nationwide to help
me. Pass my e-mail along to anyone on your boards that wants it.

-Doug

-----Original Message-----
From: steve
Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 6:01 PM
To: dchurch@natcadc.org
Subject: Re: FW: Fly Us Safe Your Opinion

Well, the offending posts were removed by the moderators, so it does kind
look
like this is unsolicited - Basically, one of your number, I believe a Mr
Madeja
from c90, posted the following in a thread discussing the difficulties
getting
cleared through Chicago Airspace in anything smaller than an Airbus.

- ooooooooooooo BFD you were goning to write somthing nice about c90,BFD.oh
by
- the way iam not getting a pay cut ,in fact no one at c90 is getting a pay
- cut,we just got a pay raise this month, haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa,
just
- get back on you meds.talking about shi**y attitudes you guys take the
cake.

and

- when i grow up i want to work at PIA so i can have a c130 a rj and a flib
on
- the freq at the same time, thats some real tin pushing, whoooooo
- doggieeeeeeeeeee, thats some real air trafficacontrollen.


I do not prescribe to send Hate Mail, and I have actually been a pretty avid
supporter of the Air Traffic Control system in this country, as both a
registered voter, and a licensed pilot - but it's hard to swallow this sort
of
attitude from controllers, who in the next breath are asking us to help them
protect their jobs.

You may also want to review posts made by the same poster, under the
nickname
OgOgOg on the AOPA and AVSIM forums - the attitude is pretty consistent, and
not exactly a positive reflection of Controllers in general.

I posted your reply on the PoA boards - I'm sure the other pilots will be
pleased at your open and honest answer.

Steve
 
I've moved the post above from a different area for those interested in the followup.
 
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