Light airplane for 130 mile commute......

Henning said:
That route can be hell for traffic.
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Understatement of the year.......

It took me 30 minutes longer than usual last week, and it's only October! I'm glad I have a bunch of vacation this winter....... :mad2:
 
Slipkid65 said:
Yeah, the time savings, most of the time, won't be that great, but the sanity savings is infinite! ;)

Driving, it's 180 miles of real life "Pole Position"..... Flying, it's under 100 miles.....
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1 hour of flying is not the same as 1 hour of driving IMO. If driving to the airport, preflight and flying time were the same as driving, I'd still rather fly.
 
I believe so strongly that horsepower saves lives that I'd buy a more serious plane than I needed for this mission.
 
rbridges said:
1 hour of flying is not the same as 1 hour of driving IMO. If driving to the airport, preflight and flying time were the same as driving, I'd still rather fly.
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I completely agree!

I commute up to MCO during midday, and commute home late at night. The drive home at night is infinitely easier and about 20 minutes shorter than the drive up during the day. If i could figure a way to drive both ways late at night, and not have to spend another night away from home and half a day in MCO for no pay, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

I figure it'll only save me 30 to 45 minutes at night coming home.

It will save me about an hour on the drive up on a "normal" day, and will often save over 2 hours during "season".

If the drive were easier, I wouldn't even consider an airplane, but it's been getting progressively worse these last few years.

On the second half of the drive up, you can't go 2 miles without having to slow down or stop, often for no valid reason. :mad2:
 
brywd said:
I believe so strongly that horsepower saves lives that I'd buy a more serious plane than I needed for this mission.
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I'd love to have a Bonanza or Debonair, but I can barely justify the costs of a simpler airplane. If I were going further, more often with more people/stuff, I would certainly consider something more substantial. Straight line, it's under 100 miles airport to airport, with lots of small airports along the route.......

Down here, it's VFR most of the time, and when it's not, it's either a thunderstorm or below minimums fog, so I don't anticipate much in the way of IFR work.
 
Slipkid65 said:
I'd love to have a Bonanza or Debonair, but I can barely justify the costs of a simpler airplane. If I were going further, more often with more people/stuff, I would certainly consider something more substantial. Straight line, it's under 100 miles airport to airport, with lots of small airports along the route.......
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Hmmmm. How about 9GPH giving 135-140 knots? How about burning mogas? Annual gear swing takes about 90 minutes, and NO hydraulics? Buy in between $20-30k? The down side is that cylinders have a shorter life if you run it hard. All other things being equal if you are going to put a lot of time on a plane per year, the early Bonanza is no more costly than a Mooney, or Cessna 182, and because of the fuel savings, can be somewhat lower than both.
 
If I put 100 hours per year on it for the 2 years I am planning on owning it, I'd be surprised. I really think I don't want to deal with a complex airplane.

I am actually reconsidering something really simple and inexpensive, like an AA1 or maybe a 150/152, but the useful load might be a bit less than I need if I want to take my wife anywhere........
 
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Works for me. Simple is good when you do a lot of commuting. Bo is a bit of overkill.
 
docmirror said:
Works for me. Simple is good when you do a lot of commuting. Bo is a bit of overkill.
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I do love flying them, but I completely agree that it's overkill.......

I typically work about 12 days per month. With the new FAR 117 "rest" rules, I can actually cram more flying into the same or even less days. :confused:

Instead of 4, 3 day trips with 4 days off in between them every month, I've been putting them back to back, giving me 6 on, and 7 or 8 off on average. This has eliminated 2 roundtrips every month, which is over 700 miles that I am NOT driving..... If I do the same with an airplane, the variable costs come down proportionally, as do the hours flown per month.

I am still on the fence re: an airplane....

I have to see how bad the drive is this winter. If this month is any indication of things to come, it's gonna be the worst "season", by a large margin, in the 13+ years I've been doing this commute. And that's saying something. :mad2:
 
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so....is this commuter gonna sit out somewhere on a ramp while you're jet setting across the country?....and what's that gonna cost?
 
Look at a Midget Mustang, cheap to buy, cheap to fly, fast little commuter.
 
Jaybird180 said:
Clearly money would solve much of your dilemma.
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Yeah, if money weren't an issue, I could retire and not commute any more. If I had enough $ to retire right now, I would, in a heartbeat, and buy an airplane for fun.

I can afford a lot more airplane than I'm willing to pay for, both the purchase price as well as upkeep. I simply can't justify a big engine, folding gear, CS prop etc. for a sub 100 mile, VFR commute a few times per month This mission really doesn't require anything fancy and I am definitely not looking for another hobby, hence the idea of keeping it simple. I also want to buy the thing cash and not have a loan payment.

That said, it would be nice to use it to go over to see my folks and in laws on the east coast or to go see my daughter in TLH once in a while, which is why I would like something with more useful load than a 152 or the like. I am not completely discounting them, but if I'm already paying for it, why not get something I can use for other stuff?
 
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Henning said:
I used to stick a decent sized backpack behind the seat, wouldn't be to hard to make it hold a small roller bag.
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I typically need 3-6 days worth of clothes. Not sure if my rollerbag is considered small, but I can't go any smaller!
 
a Cherokee 140 will be the most bang for your buck....next on the list would be C-150/152.
 
Henning said:
Get a Pacer, you can put it on floats if you want.
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I've got some time in a PA22 Tri Pacer, and it was a nice airplane.

For a variety of reasons, a fabric covered airplane is not on the list, one of which is that it's gonna sit outside for around 12 days every month.

I don't need or even want floats for what I'm gonna do with it......
 
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Slipkid65 said:
I've got some time in a PA22 Tri Pacer, and it was a nice airplane.

For a variety of reasons, a fabric covered airplane is not on the list one of which is it's gonna sit outside for around 12 days every month.

I don't need or even want floats for what I'm gonna do with it......
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Fabric is ok outside, better than aluminum in fact.
 
Henning said:
Fabric is ok outside, better than aluminum in fact.
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Which system?
What under lying structure?

Ever see the damage water causes in the lower fuselage longhorns of a pacer?

Wooden structure? the fabric tent becomes a hot humid tent that really accelerates the rot process.

New structure, coated with ura glues/varnishes covered with ceconite and ura paint systems. maybe 50 years in the open.
 
When contemplating a tube and fabric aircraft, what is the most important item you must know about it?
 
Tom-D said:
There is a lot more to it than that.
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Keep it drained and clean. Tube and fabric planes live outside all over. Is it optimum? Hell no, but it's not optimum for an aluminum skin plane either. A wood and fabric structure is actually pretty easy to care for with just some strategic application of salt water mist. Metal tubing can be preserved with various coatings. Wax is key to maintaining the quality of any coating system.

Would I prefer a hangar? Of course, and would look to work one out at the other end regardless. But I would not hesitate to park a $18k Pacer on a ramp rather than pay $600 a month for a hangar. If anything I'd get Carlos to build me a cover for it that has spoilers on the top of the wing. Ventilation is the key to controlling mildew, controlling mildew is the key to controlling most premature deterioration.
 
There is a completed onex on barnstormers right now. I can't think of a more economical commuter.
 
Slipkid65 said:
Hi folks!

I am in the market for an airplane to commute roughly 30-40 times per year, between Naples, FL and Orlando. Depending on where I can find hangar space (KAPF, KIMM maybe KMKY), it'll be roughly 110 to 130 NMs via air.

I've been doing the 180 mile (each way) drive for almost 13 years, and between the increasing population and general dumbing down of society, I am well over the thrill of near death every 3-4 days, not to mention I can save about an hour, even if I use KISM vs. KMCO. I've got 15 years left before retirement, and the thought of doing this drive for the better part of 30 years total has got me looking at airplanes!

In addition to the commute, the airplane would likely be used to travel across the state to see relatives a few times per year, and to provide a training platform for my 17 y.o. son.

I'm an ATP and have been flying for over 30 years (well over 20k hours), but haven't been in command of a SEL airplane in over 25, and have only gone for rides with others a handful of times in that time (mostly a friend's T-34).

As much as I'd like a complex single like a Bonanza, Mooney, Comanche etc., I'm thinking that something with gear down and welded, and a fixed pitch prop/O-360 would serve me well (Cherokee 180, 172/180, AA-5 etc) are the most likely candidates. IFR equipped is also a must.

I've flown all of these in the past, as well as worked on them in MX back in the early to mid '80's (no A&P though..... something I truly regret not pursuing when I was doing it every day!) I feel that they'd offer the most bang for the buck for both the commute, overall cost and resale.

In the 30+ years I've been flying, I've only seriously considered buying an airplane once, while I was building time. I've been out of the GA world a long time, and have just begun to research buying and owning one, so ANY advice from you folks would be greatly appreciated!
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Flight Design CTLS. My last trip from KLAL to KTMB and back, 117 Knots ground speed at 2500 AGL, used 6 gallons of Mogas each way.

Cheers.
 
Counter to what everyone else is suggesting.
Get a Tecnam P-92, P2004 or a Sierra. If you want to buy new a P2008, or an Astore. A fraction of the cost of a Cessna, or Piper, to buy and to operate.
I fly a lot of mission flights for my church, (200+ hrs a year) almost all of them in a Tecnam.
 
JHW said:
There is a completed onex on barnstormers right now. I can't think of a more economical commuter.
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Or a Sonex, or Wyex. great fuel economy, can take Ethanol, VW engine is low mx, John is a big believer in simple. I'd get a trike just to take the wind component out of the mix.

Cruise 130MPH. If solo, in FL might look for some kind of AC addition. There's a way to mount the pump right behind the prop flange, but it would take some engineering. I would pay double for a small plane with AC in FL.... Same in TX. :yes:
 
Shepherd said:
Counter to what everyone else is suggesting.
Get a Tecnam P-92, P2004 or a Sierra. If you want to buy new a P2008, or an Astore. A fraction of the cost of a Cessna, or Piper, to buy and to operate.
I fly a lot of mission flights for my church, (200+ hrs a year) almost all of them in a Tecnam.
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Those look pretty cool but, from an admittedly limited search, those are going for way more than I want to spend.....

I think an old, but solid Cherokee, AA1/5 or Cessna is what I'm looking for.
 
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