It's amazing the forms bigotry takes these days. Sad, really.
Liberty University in Virginia
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It's amazing the forms bigotry takes these days. Sad, really.
RJM62
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Geek on the Hill
In fairness, I suppose I'm guilty as well. My opinion of American undergraduate education in general is not exactly one of great admiration.
Rich
Point taken. I'd probably assume a UC-Berkley grad was a raving lunatic. We're all guilty to some degree.
nddons
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labbadabba
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All I'm saying is that it is the defining characteristic of the school, and it's fair to mention it. I don't view religion as a psychological disorder as has been inferred elsewhere but, I do have serious differences with what is preached in evangelical strains of Christianity which bear discussion elsewhere.
If a person didn't know what Liberty U is, it's worth mentioning it. For me it's a non starter but for others it's fine.
Same goes for ORU, Bob Jones, etc.
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Ah yes, just like the poor County Clerk in Kentucky who is refusing to issue marriage licenses in spite of a court order; she's a shining example of the faithful. And those people wanting to exercise their legal rights are just ****ing in her sandbox. How awful!
That was kind of my point, though I probably did a poor job of articluting it. Liberty, and some of the others like it, aren't just "religious" schools like Notre Dame, TCU, SMU, Georgetown, Saint Louis U., etc., are "religious" schools. Liberty and similar are way, way, way out in left field compared to your typical "religious" University. That's the key distinction, and the one that gets it a reputation that's not so stellar outside of those who like to play in way, way, way left field.
write-stuff
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BYU is a religious school that has a pretty good reputation among the secular (I think). Funny story. A buddy of mine is an astronomy full professor there. Very devout Mormon. I figured this would probably create a conflict for him and asked him how old the earth is. He responded without a pause. "Oh, about four and half billion years." I'm not sure, but I think Mormon doctrine about creation follows Genesis.
oldbabyboomer
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Fruits of the spirit: love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Didn't see much of that at Berkeley. It's an extreme example but the point is I'd much rather go to BJU or Liberty than Berkeley if I had to do it over again. BTW Shannon Bream, Fox News anchor went to Liberty....and was Miss Virginia 1990. At least some good things come out of Liberty....Power to the People!
Mike Smith
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What does this have to do with Liberty University?
Everskyward
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Oh, you're talking about me.
Jimmy cooper
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Actually Michelle Bachman got her JD from ORU but we would not want facts to get in the way of a good rant. Dig in and fling another booger Jimmy.
Jerry Falwell Sr. did in fact start Liberty University and I knew him personally and professionally. His word was gold and his vision was one in a million. I remember the day he drove through the tunnel under US460 that connects Campus East to Main Campus. Huge milestone in the Universities development. My first trip as a private pilot was to his funeral in May of 2007.
To the OP
The school has grown at an alarming pace over the past 10 years. Student life is very robust and varied.
I just looked looked up General Young and see he is no longer the Dean to the School of Aeronautics but Assistant Provost. The Aeronautics School has grown 10 fold under his leadership and has a top notch facility there at KLYH.
As I started in my first post, I recommend getting your family to a College for a Weekend event. Here is the 2015-2016 schedule.
http://www.liberty.edu/undergrad/?PID=16415
Oral Roberts, jerry Falwell, all the same thing, both were television born bigots and loudmouths. Jerrys comments about Jews were astounding. . Christopher hitchens had him pegged.....exactly. Too many excellent schools to bother with liberty.
Oh, you're talking about me.
I'm sure you'd quickly disabuse me of that notion in real life! :wink2:
Everskyward
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The OP has already stated that the religious nature of the school does not bother him. Can you take your rants elsewhere?
UngaWunga
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A lot of mud slinging and cries of bigotry here. It basically boils down to: is that they school you and your daughter are happy with? If so, fine, go. Enjoy. Make the most out of it. On the other hand, the idea behind the "liberal schools that are destroying America" is to give you a broad range of experiences and education. UVA is an excellent school, with many opportunities to learn and make connections. And making connections is important, because they will help open doors for you the rest of your life. You may not get that sort of education and connections at a more closed religious school. But maybe she will.
Good luck. Tough decision.
Good luck. Tough decision.
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Mantis Toboggan, MD
Agreed, but I don't believe it has an undergraduate aviation program, which is what the OP is looking into. It's also fairly liberal for the area, which also sounds like something the OP would like to avoid.
Personally, if I had what it takes to get into (and out of) Virginia (AKA UVA) I'd take it over any other school in the state with one possible exception and work on my ratings off-grounds (AKA campus). Wait, I did.
Nauga,
who was in the SEAS but didn't exactly sail
RJM62
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Geek on the Hill
Mormons explicitly believe that the six "days" of Genesis were six consecutive periods of unknown length. This is also along the lines of what most Christian theologians believe, although the Mormons' take on the doctrine is more detailed and developed than most.
Most Christian theologians also believe in some form of theistic evolution. There are different shades of this belief. Some believe that God micromanaged the whole process. Others believe that God created the natural laws by which evolution occurred, and then pretty much just let it happen.
The creation of man is a sticky point because Genesis does clearly point to humans as a unique sort of creation, invested with both animal and divine attributes, and given the responsibility of superintendency over the rest of creation. However, even that does not necessarily contradict evolution because Genesis teaches that Adam (which means "man," by the way) became "a living soul" when God breathed his spirit into him, not when his body was physically created.
But really, none of this should matter with regard to an Aviation major (nor most others, actually). It shouldn't even matter with regard to a science major if an individual merely asserts that the vast natural history of all things originated in the mind of an intelligent God, which is what most Christians believe.
Your friend's belief in the age of the earth is consistent with that of most Christians, both lay and clergy. Those who believe in a literal creation week of six 24-hour days are on the fringes.
Rich
write-stuff
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Perhaps its because I live in the south, but I can promise you that down here, the literal Genesis account, complete with the talking snake, is the dominate belief by far among Christians. The idea of biological evolution is heresy. In fact, you'll find a lot of Christian politicians on the national scene that consider evolution "is only a theory" and strongly lean toward the Adam and Eve story.
The "creationism" crowd certainly appears to be massive in this country. That hardly places them on the fringe.
RJM62
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Meh. What politicians say and what they believe are two different things, especially at the national level. But you're probably right about the popularity of the literal school in the South, where the more fundamentalist flavors of Protestantism predominate.
But hey, I don't worry about it. I've studied religions from Asatru to Zoroastrianism, and they all have different flavors of belief under their umbrellas. That's how it should be. It keeps things lively.
Rich
EppyGA
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Mark Kelmar
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I know several Liberty grads, each one of them are very successful, intelligent, and the type of people you would like to have for neighbors.
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Mantis Toboggan, MD
Based on graduation rates from several sources (not including Liberty) you're more likely to meet someone who matriculated but did not graduate. The smart prospective student would look into possible reasons for this.
Nauga,
who hates weeders
nddons
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Bah. Jesuits.
. When I told my friend who is a Catholic Priest in the Congregation of the Holy Cross in South Bend that my daughter wouldn't be going to Notre Dame, but would be going to the College of the Holy Cross (a Jesuit school) he told me "Just don't let her convert." . The Jesuits are known to be sandal wearing, liberal inner-city missionaries.
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Warlock
My youngest kid goes to the oldest existing Catholic University in the world...but top ten in Europe, speaks three languages fluently, and will not have a problem because of the religious ties in finding a job within the international business world. I know some Liberty grad lawyers that have done very well and my wife in the past had Liberty interns that impressed her with their work ethic. If it fits go for it...It might just beat some of the liberal indoctrination I have seen with my other kids at major state universities.
JoseCuervo
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As an employer 2500 miles away, and never having stepped on either campus. I can assure you if I saw a resume with UVA on it, I would give it serious consideration.
If I saw a resume with Liberty U on it, I would toss it, as I have no interest in hiring people scared of challenge and learning.
Just me.
(I also toss resumes from online and for-profit schools. If you can't function in a real college environment, I have little confidence you can function in the real world.)
If I saw a resume with Liberty U on it, I would toss it, as I have no interest in hiring people scared of challenge and learning.
Just me.
(I also toss resumes from online and for-profit schools. If you can't function in a real college environment, I have little confidence you can function in the real world.)
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Bob Noel
Do you really want to admit that you MSU when you evaluate resumes?
EdFred
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You should really stop wearing your ass as a hat. What is it that you do, and what company do you own so I know who not to patronize, and can advise all my acquaintances to do the same.
JoseCuervo
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People who have to be sheltered and can only function in an environment of like-minded people are not the ingredients for success.
Business 101.
RJM62
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I find that pretty funny. Having earned degrees from accredited universities using both classroom and non-traditional methods (although not online -- online education didn't exist back then), I can say without a doubt that the non-traditional approach was the most challenging as well as the most rewarding.
I'm also not sure what you mean by "function(ing) in a real college environment." Having earned two of my degrees in residential colleges, it seems pretty clear to me that the most important skill needed to succeed in that environment is the ability to kiss ass convincingly. Succeeding in a self-directed, non-traditional approach, on the other hand, requires discipline, resourcefulness, focus, determination, and exquisite time-management skills.
Then again, there are plenty of managers who value the ability of a candidate to kiss ass as being of paramount importance; so maybe you have a point.
Rich
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dcwldct
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As long as your daughter doesn't have any interest in learning science or going into a STEM field she should be fine. Is LU extremely evangelical protestant? Yes. Is it a well-run institution? Yes. It all depends on your priorities.
Mike Smith
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The beauty of living in a country where we are free to choose is that you are free to choose being closed minded. I don't know if you own your business or work for someone else, but business 101 is to choose the best candidate for the job and you are dismissing out of hand, qualified applicants because they don't fit your worldview. Im with Ed, please let us know the name of the business that I never want to do business with.
write-stuff
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Now that would make an interesting poll right here. We have a lot of Christians from all over in the SZ. Forget about all other religious debates. Simply two questions:
(1) I am a Christian and I believe the earth is less than 10,000 years old.
(2) I am a Christian and I believe the earth is billions of years old.
Would be interesting numbers.
A subsequent poll might ask this, but I wouldn't want to muddy up the first one with it:
(a) I am a Christian and I believe that Adam and Eve were two literal, physical humans that spontaneously appeared and no humans existed before them.
(b) I am a Christian and I believe Adam and Eve were allegorical characters and that humans descended from other, older species.
My guess is that we'd get more (1) and (a) votes, but it would be fascinating to find out.
JoseCuervo
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If you are in business long enough, you develop skills that serve you well. Reading resumes and finding candidates are a couple of those skills. I am comfortable with the level of ability I have in sorting resumes and hiring candidates.
And, I even take 15% longer than average, as I study a resume for 7 seconds before deciding to toss or not...
And, here is a "heat map" of where recruiters focused on a resume...
Looks like the Education part got some serious eyeball time.
Yeah, I am the anomaly.
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Bob Noel
I am a Christian and I would answer (2) and (b). I'm able to understand that science and Christianity are not mutually exclusive.
write-stuff
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Excellent. Thanks for the vote. I know that you aren't alone. Just curious what the norm really is.
JoseCuervo
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If the only way you can get a degree is by overpaying a for-profit diploma mill that advertises on late night TV and their primary admission criteria is suitability for student loans, depending on the position, you likely would not be able to function in a position that requires a college education.
I knew a recruiter for one of the big for-profit universities, Academics were not a consideration for admission, nor for retention. Eligibility for student loans was the primary consideration for admission AND retention.
RJM62
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(2) for the first question.
The second question is indeed muddy, especially choice (b). It's an answer to two different questions.
In my case, I do believe that Adam and Eve were allegorical characters. But I'd have to answer "unknown" for whether humans evolved from older species. I lean toward evolution. But I also believe that it's possible that God created humans as a new specie. In either case, however, I believe that the uniqueness of human beings among species was imparted at the time of ensoulment, not physical creation.
Rich
Mike Smith
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Like Chemistry, Molecular Biology, Information Technology, Biomedical Sciences, Nursing etc...? Oh, and Aeronautics.
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