Let's talk about Wranglers

[CJones]

2" lift ... and posted "over there" at the same time as here.

the 32"s only rubbed up front in sharp turns ... so thinking the 10.5 width vs the 12.5 width will help with that.

Sometimes you can get some relief by running wheels with extra backspacing. I'm running 33x12.50 on my 03 TJ with aftermarket wheels with 3.75" backspacing. No problems rubbing in turns (even before I put the 4" lift on).

 

[CJones]

how do they do on the highway? He'll probably end up taking this to college, and I thought that may be too much gear.

I'm running 33x12.5x15's on my 03 TJ with 3.73 gears (5 spd / 4.0L). I can cruise at 80mph on the interstate fine. "Normal" interstate hills, I usually drop down to about 70 with the pedal to the floor, but it picks back up quick at the top of the hill.

What I would like to do is swap out my stock rear axle with a 4.10 out of an Explorer and swap the front axle with a HP D30 from an XJ. That would give me higher gear ratio to help out with those small hills, give me disc brakes in the rear, and a different (sometimes stronger) R&P in the front.

I have a buddy that ran 4.56 gears with his TJ on 33x12.5 and it was too much gear for that size tires on the road. It was awesome off-road, though.

 

[Henning]

It's interesting. Anything can be made into a sport because at the limit everything is hard.

Australian Top Gear(yeah.. smh) did a segment at one time(Series 4, Episode 3) about how difficult it is to drag race. Steve Pizzeti(their circuit racer with no experience and no love for drag racing) spent a day learning to drive and getting a race license in a modified dragster.

You can see it on youtube. It took him just a few runs(no experience at all) to get a race license. First 1/4mi run after that...9.28. Apparently that's respectable.

I'm pretty sure that nobody would be able to do the same in a circuit race car.

9.28 in a rail means he had 400hp and didn't use it particularly effectively.

 

[genna]

9.28 in a rail means he had 400hp and didn't use it particularly effectively.

600KW i think he said. 800hp... again.. this was his first ever 1/4 run in that car. I'm guessing high 6 is a good time.

 

[Henning]

600KW i think he said. 800hp... again.. this was his first ever 1/4 run in that car. I'm guessing high 6 is a good time.

If he had 800hp in a rail and could only pull a 9.28, he sucked at it, he should have been at least a second faster as a novice with training. 6 seconds takes 1000hp driven pretty well.

1500 hp will scare the living **** out of you the first couple of times you turn it loose. Learning to use a Crowerglide clutch effectively is also tricky.

 

[SoonerAviator]

Manuals are more fun and in the good ol' days it was a no brainer to get because they were also more efficient and higher performance compared to the slushboxes of old. Today, though, you lose performance AND efficiency going to manuals. So it's just for fun now.

I don't think that really holds true until you get into expensive cars with advanced auto-transmissions. Just about every car I've driven with paddle shifters in the $50K and under price range is terrible. The delay between the press of the button and the actual shift is laughable, and sometimes not intuitive on placement. If we're talking PDK trannys and other such versions, then yeah, it's difficult to out-shift the auto. I don't see how you'd lose any efficiency though, as it's fewer components spinning and full lock-up (unless your clutch is slipping). No torque converter to rob the efficiency in a manual.

 

[el con]

Not understanding the Rubicon thing, ugly, crappy fuel economy, IMO weak drive train.

Yeah, that as Henning says, but as others say ,I will also "it's a Jeep thing"
Here in Michigan ,first snow, always a lot of jeeps out running around,quite a few upside down in the X way median. Again, "it's a jeep thing"

 

[denverpilot]

It's Consumer Reports.... Your point isn't valid.

They're actually annoyingly anal about price and maintenance costs. So in this case, they're likely correct.

Any other time you use their data you have to take it with a grain of salt because an extra $50 in MX will knock a perfectly good vehicle out of their top five. Every single time.

 

[narchee]

I don't think that really holds true until you get into expensive cars with advanced auto-transmissions. Just about every car I've driven with paddle shifters in the $50K and under price range is terrible. The delay between the press of the button and the actual shift is laughable, and sometimes not intuitive on placement. If we're talking PDK trannys and other such versions, then yeah, it's difficult to out-shift the auto. I don't see how you'd lose any efficiency though, as it's fewer components spinning and full lock-up (unless your clutch is slipping). No torque converter to rob the efficiency in a manual.

Yes, good point, I'm not referring to lower end vehicles. Any vehicle though that is a true sports car, if you compare the performance and efficiency between the manual and automatic versions the automatic version wins. I'm including the dual clutch paddle shift systems as well.

As for torque convertors robbing efficiency compared to manuals... Can you even get a new car with a non-locking torque converter today? Serious question. Once a torque convertor locks up, it is as efficient as a manual.The loss of efficiency during gear changes is probably less than that due to clutch use.

 

[ktup-flyer]

Like turns? Then these are monsters:View attachment 40028

BTW, if you think it's easy to make 4000+hp go straight for a quarter mile in under 5 seconds, you have never driven a car with even 1000hp.

If all you have ever driven has been production vehicles, you don't know what performance really is, and if you've never taken it to the track, you don't know what it can do or how to make it do it. Driving hard on the street is just an ego boost for losers.

Ive driven my uncles full interior 67 camaro. 540 bbc and runs low 9s on radials. Itll put out ~1100 with a 250 shot.

 

[ktup-flyer]

I don't think that really holds true until you get into expensive cars with advanced auto-transmissions. Just about every car I've driven with paddle shifters in the $50K and under price range is terrible. The delay between the press of the button and the actual shift is laughable, and sometimes not intuitive on placement. If we're talking PDK trannys and other such versions, then yeah, it's difficult to out-shift the auto. I don't see how you'd lose any efficiency though, as it's fewer components spinning and full lock-up (unless your clutch is slipping). No torque converter to rob the efficiency in a manual.

They're conservately tuned. A good trans tune wakes them up, but then people like Henning complain about hard shifting.

 

[SoonerAviator]

Yes, good point, I'm not referring to lower end vehicles. Any vehicle though that is a true sports car, if you compare the performance and efficiency between the manual and automatic versions the automatic version wins. I'm including the dual clutch paddle shift systems as well.

As for torque convertors robbing efficiency compared to manuals... Can you even get a new car with a non-locking torque converter today? Serious question. Once a torque convertor locks up, it is as efficient as a manual.The loss of efficiency during gear changes is probably less than that due to clutch use.

I doubt that you can buy a vehicle with non-locking torque converter. However, my point was that torque converters don't "lock" until you reach certain parameters in each gear. In a manual, it's locked once the clutch is let out, autos will vary based off of rpm/load/throttle/etc which translates to lost "efficiency" no matter how you do it. If you shift appropriately, the auto vs manual is a wash I'm sure. If you feather the clutch all of the time, then yes, the manual tranny may lose a bit vs an auto.

All of that being said, I hate driving manual transmissions in anything other than sport/muscle cars. Any suv/truck/sedan I own will have an auto due to the sloppiness of the manual gearboxes they typically use in those types of vehicles.

 

[SoonerAviator]

They're conservately tuned. A good trans tune wakes them up, but then people like Henning complain about hard shifting.

No doubt, but I don't think we can compare apples-to-apples if we introduce the idea of what a car is like with a canned or custom tune. I've seen video of a highly-modified Subaru WRX walking a C5 Corvette on NOS at 160mph+, but it's not going to convince me that a WRX is a faster car than a Corvette stock for stock, lol!

 

[Henning]

They're conservately tuned. A good trans tune wakes them up, but then people like Henning complain about hard shifting.

I used to drive a THM-400 with 600hp in front of it and manual valve body ported to flow. It would chirp tires into every gear. Eventually I grew up and moved away from my judge/lawyer who would take care of all my ticket in trade for work on his Ferrari. That's when I took up flying for transport performance and kept all my ground performance on the track. I don't mind a hard shift auto, and I can dump a clutch at 6200rpm with the best of them, as well as handle a Crowerglide clutch with a 2 speed Lenco backing 1500hp of nitromethane burning goodness. For turns, IMSA GT is more fun than the street any day.

If the shift doesn't cause tire shake, it isn't hard.

 

[narchee]

Eventually I grew up and moved away from my judge/lawyer who would take care of all my ticket in trade for work on his Ferrari.

Cool! You're a Ferrari mechanic as well?

 

[Henning]

Cool! You're a Ferrari mechanic as well?

Mechanic, no adjectives, all machines work under the same set of physical laws, and all bolts and nuts work the same. The rest is all just details offered to us in manuals. A Ferrari is no different to turn wrenches on than a Chevy, the parts are just more expensive. Most complex systems like FI are common across brands, just like with airplanes.

 

[ktup-flyer]

No doubt, but I don't think we can compare apples-to-apples if we introduce the idea of what a car is like with a canned or custom tune. I've seen video of a highly-modified Subaru WRX walking a C5 Corvette on NOS at 160mph+, but it's not going to convince me that a WRX is a faster car than a Corvette stock for stock, lol!

FI works wonders. Turn up the boost or put on a smaller pully and you have gobs more power.

 

[genna]

I doubt that you can buy a vehicle with non-locking torque converter. However, my point was that torque converters don't "lock" until you reach certain parameters in each gear. In a manual, it's locked once the clutch is let out, autos will vary based off of rpm/load/throttle/etc which translates to lost "efficiency" no matter how you do it. If you shift appropriately, the auto vs manual is a wash I'm sure. If you feather the clutch all of the time, then yes, the manual tranny may lose a bit vs an auto.

All of that being said, I hate driving manual transmissions in anything other than sport/muscle cars. Any suv/truck/sedan I own will have an auto due to the sloppiness of the manual gearboxes they typically use in those types of vehicles.

I'm the oposite. I hate auto transmissions. TC Auto are basically a no-no for me. There is no saving them in my view. Even if they are faster or more eco(in rare cases), they kill any joy of driving in my view. CVT(now that's the most common auto in regular cars) is even worse. DCT is really good on the track.. Porsche PDK is just to die for on the track...but i'm not convinced I will like it on the street(not to mention it's $8K and i'm not buying a Porsche any time soon).

I've only owned 3 vehicles with Auto. 2 trucks and a hand-me-down car. Like that car, can't stand its transmission. Trucks were basically no choice as it's hard to find full size used truck with manual.

I dread the day when i will have no choice but to buy a slushbox

 

[genna]

Incidentally, BMW stopped bringing manual cars to USA(exception of M cars). All new 1,2,3,4 series are 8 speed auto

EDIT: Correction... you can order them as no cost option. My bad

 

[Z06_Mir]

C6? The new C7 Z06/Z07 is a monster

Yeah I had a C6. Sold it before the C7Z even came out. The kid who bought my once beautiful Z06 has destroyed it... complete with putting 305's on the back (stock is 325, I had 335's), it reeks of Armani cologne and cigarettes too.

 

[ktup-flyer]

Yeah I had a C6. Sold it before the C7Z even came out. The kid who bought my once beautiful Z06 has destroyed it... complete with putting 305's on the back (stock is 325, I had 335's), it reeks of Armani cologne and cigarettes too.

smh....

 

[SoonerAviator]

FI works wonders. Turn up the boost or put on a smaller pully and you have gobs more power.

It's all fun and games until you run lean, . I don't think that running 40PSI on the boxer engine in that Subi is going to last nearly as long as the LS2 in the C5. I bet the guy had more money in that Subi engine than the other guy paid for the used C5.

 

[ktup-flyer]

It's all fun and games until you run lean, . I don't think that running 40PSI on the boxer engine in that Subi is going to last nearly as long as the LS2 in the C5. I bet the guy had more money in that Subi engine than the other guy paid for the used C5.

Look at Evos. You can make 1000awhp easily, but it's going to break down every time you drive it. That's why I like domestics. I can run 800hp on the stock LS3 bottom end and not have to worry about anything.

 

[Henning]

Look at Evos. You can make 1000awhp easily, but it's going to break down every time you drive it. That's why I like domestics. I can run 800hp on the stock LS3 bottom end and not have to worry about anything.

Yep, they came up with some real winner equipment with the LS series stuff, and the digital fuel and ignition controls are letting us supercharge on pump gas to levels we used to have to mix nitrobenzene in the gas to tolerate before. It used to be a major trick to manage 2hp/cuin, now it's mundane. I was in a shop with a new Chevy Pro Stock block, awesome piece of work it was, straight from the factory. Too bad you can't buy them.

 

[narchee]

Mechanic, no adjectives, all machines work under the same set of physical laws, and all bolts and nuts work the same. The rest is all just details offered to us in manuals. A Ferrari is no different to turn wrenches on than a Chevy, the parts are just more expensive. Most complex systems like FI are common across brands, just like with airplanes.

Um, no, I'm not going to let the grease monkey down the road work on my Ferrari. "Bring me your Ferrari, it's all just nuts and bolts anyway".



I'd maybe let you wash it.

 

[ktup-flyer]

Um, no, I'm not going to let the grease monkey down the road work on my Ferrari. "Bring me your Ferrari, it's all just nuts and bolts anyway".



I'd maybe let you wash it.

NO. I'm the only one that washes my cars, lol

 

[Henning]

Um, no, I'm not going to let the grease monkey down the road work on my Ferrari. "Bring me your Ferrari, it's all just nuts and bolts anyway".



I'd maybe let you wash it.

He was sent to me by my boss at the machine shop who he approached but didn't have time for him and pointed at me; since I had experience with Cosworth engines (was working on one when he walked up)he decided to use me since he was ****ed at the only Ferrari dealer in town because they wouldn't do anything beside "Stock" to his car and he wanted to go faster. You can use whomever you please. If you think there is a difference between any of this crap that you can't figure out, you should probably just leave the wrenching and fixing of things to others.

I wash em too, it all pays the same, my rate doesn't change regardless what I do.

 

[narchee]

He was sent to me by my boss at the machine shop who he approached but didn't have time for him and pointed at me; since I had experience with Cosworth engines (was working on one when he walked up)he decided to use me since he was ****ed at the only Ferrari dealer in town because they wouldn't do anything beside "Stock" to his car and he wanted to go faster. You can use whomever you please. If you think there is a difference between any of this crap that you can't figure out, you should probably just leave the wrenching and fixing of things to others.

I wash em too, it all pays the same, my rate doesn't change regardless what I do.

No offense was intended. I've read enough of your posts to know your duct tape and bubble gum approach to solving problems and it may be great for some but not for me.

Sorry for the thread derail. I'll PM you instead to get your car washing rates.

 

[Henning]

No offense was intended. I've read enough of your posts to know your duct tape and bubble gum approach to solving problems and it may be great for some but not for me.

Sorry for the thread derail. I'll PM you instead to get your car washing rates.

Duct tape has its place in the world, there isn't a race car in the world that doesn't sport some. Special car wash price for you, I'll just charge a half day, $400, when do you want me to come over, oh year, you need to pay my expenses too.

 

[Ghery]

I know a guy who had a $40k Grand Cherokee Limited in about 98 or so - he took it on a Jeep Jamboree - a guided ride - and he caught the side rocker panel on a tree 'nub' and tore it completely off - which caused the rear of the vehicle to lever itself onto the rest of the tree bashing in the fender pretty good and scratching the hell out of the whole right side of the rig. I pulled him off the tree - from the back - and he tried it again and got through - we just tossed his parts in the rear and bought him a beer later. He was pretty good about it - 2500 miles on the truck.

I went on a Jeep Jamboree in northern Idaho in 1999 and 2000. On the 1999 run there was a guy with a nice (really nice) Grand Cherokee who beat it up a bit on the trail. I found out the next year that the reason he didn't really get upset was that he was a finance muckymuck at Jeep and it was his company car. Nice to not have to worry. Not that I did. Heck, my Wrangler is a JEEP and if it picks up a few dings, no big deal.

since this is a Wrangler thread, this isn't a hijack ....

I have to put new tires on the '98 TJ ... currently have 32x12.5x15 Goodyear Wrangler MTs ... thinking about 33x10.5x15 ATs as a replacement

so other than the obvious math results of "1 inch" ... what's the real overall difference in height and width? I'm intentionally going a little narrower (I think) with the 10.5 vs 12.5 ... and is the overall height really, physically 1 inch between the 32 and 33?

If you go to the larger tires, assuming they fit without a lift, you will need to re-gear the speedometer so it still reads accurately.

 

[ktup-flyer]

I went on a Jeep Jamboree in northern Idaho in 1999 and 2000. On the 1999 run there was a guy with a nice (really nice) Grand Cherokee who beat it up a bit on the trail. I found out the next year that the reason he didn't really get upset was that he was a finance muckymuck at Jeep and it was his company car. Nice to not have to worry. Not that I did. Heck, my Wrangler is a JEEP and if it picks up a few dings, no big deal.



If you go to the larger tires, assuming they fit without a lift, you will need to re-gear the speedometer so it still reads accurately.

That's how I was. I had a brand new black 2012 JK, but I took it everywhere. Scratches just add character on a Jeep.

 

[gkainz]

I went on a Jeep Jamboree in northern Idaho in 1999 and 2000. On the 1999 run there was a guy with a nice (really nice) Grand Cherokee who beat it up a bit on the trail. I found out the next year that the reason he didn't really get upset was that he was a finance muckymuck at Jeep and it was his company car. Nice to not have to worry. Not that I did. Heck, my Wrangler is a JEEP and if it picks up a few dings, no big deal.



If you go to the larger tires, assuming they fit without a lift, you will need to re-gear the speedometer so it still reads accurately.

posted earlier I have a 2" lift on this, and already went with larger tires last time I re-shoed it ... from stock itty-bitty-doofus tires to 32x12.50x15s ... and didn't regear. Told my son it indicates 8 mph slow at 65 ... drive accordingly.

And yesterday I grudgingly, unhappily downsized to 31x10.50x15s as I couldn't source any 32.x10.50 or 33x10.50 anywhere in a timely manner and a ... won't say "reasonable price" because OMG have tire prices gone up ... the 31s are as tall new as the 32s are while worn out ... so I guess I'll live with it.

 

[Ghery]

That's how I was. I had a brand new black 2012 JK, but I took it everywhere. Scratches just add character on a Jeep.

Kind of like washing it every few years. "Mud" is the natural color of a Jeep.