Lets spend money i dont have

[WannFly]

for planning purposes only but some of these are inevitable down the road. i didnt want to hijack Unit74's thread, so starting my own (so un-POA like...)

current set up:

Dual G5 + GAD 29B tied to Century 2000 AP
GNS 480 + GMX 200
SL 30 with 106B CDI, SL 70 and SL-15M
GDL 90R for ADSB in/OUT - NOT complaint

state of the art set up for 1995, but some of those stuff are not repairable.

my plan was to change the GDL 90R to 345R and call it a day for ADSB next winter
BUT, few things happened in the meantime. Garmin pulled the plug on 480, my transponder is already dead man walking and for few more AMU i can get GMX 375 for ADSB and a backup IFR GPS for when 480 decides to die.

century AP works fine, I will probably not let George fly me to mins... but other than that.. it works and GFC 500 is expensive.

i should also say, i have ZERO space on my panel to add ANYTHING new. if i need to add something, something else will have to come off.



if money wasnt an object, i wont be having this discussion, but turns out, it IS an object. in my dream world i will put in a 10 inch G3X touch + 375 and may be another SL-30 / 40/ 255 for the second NAV/COM, but in real world...
for now the plan is to only get ADSB in/OUT and preferably a 375.

plane - Piper Archer II, dont ask me how long i am keeping it, i have no idea.

it looks like the only option i have is to take the GMX 200 out and use that place for 375, but i really like a MFD on the panel, and if i take out 480 i loose a NAV/COM....

what would you do?

 

[RyanB]

Dude you have a sweet panel. I’d leave it the way it is and just fly it!

 

[simtech]

Dude you have a sweet panel. I’d leave it the way it is and just fly it!

Haha yep I was going to say the same thing.

You have a sweet panel. Slap in the 375 and then when the AP goes tango uniform spend the coin on the gfc 500. And man an AoA! Your high class yo!

 

[eman1200]

Sounds like your PRIMARY goal is adsb? What’s the cost difference between the 345 and 375?

 

[Tantalum]

what would you do?

That's a sick panel man. Keep it

Dude you have a sweet panel. I’d leave it the way it is and just fly it!

Yeah that!

 

[TCABM]

if money wasnt an object...

.... what would you do?

I’d figure what my budget could afford.

If this isn’t a forever plane, the least expensive option to get what I need to be compliant is what I’d do.

 

[WannFly]

Sounds like your PRIMARY goal is adsb? What’s the cost difference between the 345 and 375?

I was quoted 6k for 345, no idea about 375 cost yet. My fear is if I get 345, the following week 480 will go TU on me.... so wondering if it’s prudent to just eat the cost and go with 375 to begin with, but the problem I would have to get rid of something on the panel and 375 ain’t fitting in the sl-70 slot

just got a ball park quote for 375 .. 10.5k installed

 

[asicer]

Garmin has a trade-in offer on the 480. Does that sway your decision process any?

 

[455 Bravo Uniform]

I’ll treat your money like my money. Skybeacon. Delay the other upgrades. When something goes out, do the upgrade as you wish. Then keep or sell the used Skybeacon after the ADSB rebate runs out (less incentive for folks to buy new).

 

[WannFly]

Garmin has a trade-in offer on the 480. Does that sway your decision process any?

i believe they were offering about 2K for the 480, not ready to give up 480 for 2K, i will run it till it dies. Avidyne was offering 4k for a 480 at one point

 

[WannFly]

I’ll treat your money like my money. Skybeacon. Delay the other upgrades. When something goes out, do the upgrade as you wish. Then keep or sell the used Skybeacon after the ADSB rebate runs out (less incentive for folks to buy new).

that is definitely one option!!

 

[Skyrys62]

Keep sticking things in Kate and it's going to cost you.

Just like your Daddy warned ya...

 

[asicer]

i believe they were offering about 2K for the 480, not ready to give up 480 for 2K, i will run it till it dies. Avidyne was offering 4k for a 480 at one point

That's if you trade for a 650 and nothing else. They will give you $3k if you trade for a GTN650/GTX345 and $4k for a GTN650/GTX345/GMA345.

 

[Unit74]

You need to sell that POS and buy a Cirrus.... Any Cirrus.

 

[WannFly]

You need to sell that POS and buy a Cirrus.... Any Cirrus.

I ain’t selling my lady anytime soon . She saved my butt on number of occasions ... am loyal

 

[mondtster]

I was quoted 6k for 345, no idea about 375 cost yet. My fear is if I get 345, the following week 480 will go TU on me.... so wondering if it’s prudent to just eat the cost and go with 375 to begin with, but the problem I would have to get rid of something on the panel and 375 ain’t fitting in the sl-70 slot

If you're really concerned you could get a 345 with a built in GPS. Then you don't need to worry about an external WAAS source potentially going bad.

I’ll treat your money like my money. Skybeacon. Delay the other upgrades. When something goes out, do the upgrade as you wish. Then keep or sell the used Skybeacon after the ADSB rebate runs out (less incentive for folks to buy new).

Considering the OP's proximity to Canada I wouldn't consider a skybeacon if I were him. I'd want the ability to cross the border. But perhaps that is not a concern to him, in which case a 978 solution may be an option.

 

[Radar Contact]

i believe they were offering about 2K for the 480, not ready to give up 480 for 2K, i will run it till it dies. Avidyne was offering 4k for a 480 at one point

If Avidyne would give me 4K for a 480 I'd take that deal in a heartbeat. If you have a panel space issue they can remote the transponder into the IFD. Spending other people's money is fun.

 

[GRG55]

...Considering the OP's proximity to Canada I wouldn't consider a skybeacon if I were him. I'd want the ability to cross the border. But perhaps that is not a concern to him, in which case a 978 solution may be an option.

Huh?

Why would the Skybeacon preclude him from flying the airplane in Canadian airspace?

 

[mondtster]

Huh?

Why would the Skybeacon preclude him from flying the airplane in Canadian airspace?

I thought it required a 1090 solution, no?

Edit: A 30 second search produced this link. I’d have to look harder but it is my understanding that a 1090 transponder is required to cross the border. The sky beacon is not 1090.

https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2018/april/02/canada-ads-b-mandate-moves-closer

There is always the transponder waiver option for border crossing too. But if you’ve ever looked at what you have to submit to do it, you might decide just getting a transponder is an easier choice.

 

[GRG55]

I thought it required a 1090 solution, no?

Edit: A 30 second search produced this link. I’d have to look harder but it is my understanding that a 1090 transponder is required to cross the border. The sky beacon is not 1090.

https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2018/april/02/canada-ads-b-mandate-moves-closer

There is always the transponder waiver option for border crossing too. But if you’ve ever looked at what you have to submit to do it, you might decide just getting a transponder is an easier choice.

Just as in the USA, a transponder is required for all flights in controlled airspace in Canada (Mode C for our small GA planes). But there is no requirement for ADS-B Out.

The article is correct that when Canada eventually requires ADS-B out it will be satellite based and 1090ES. But at the moment NavCanada, the operator of the ATC system, and Transport Canada, the Federal regulator, are not in agreement about how soon it's really needed for GA. NavCanada is pushing it, TC is taking a more relaxed approach. It might be many years away, especially for VFR GA.

 

[mondtster]

Just as in the USA, a transponder is required for all flights in controlled airspace in Canada (Mode C for our small GA planes). But there is no requirement for ADS-B Out.

The article is correct that when Canada eventually requires ADS-B out it will be satellite based and 1090ES. But at the moment NavCanada, the operator of the ATC system, and Transport Canada, the Federal regulator, are not in agreement about how soon it's really needed for GA. NavCanada is pushing it, TC is taking a more relaxed approach. It might be many years away, especially for VFR GA.

I know that. The only real concern for me right now is border crossing. I’d have to look harder but I believe the US is requiring 1090 at the borders. My whole point to the OP was to consider the limitations on the 978 equipment before jumping onboard with his proximity to the border.

Also, as I said before, in a pinch you could cross using the transponder waiver option if you don’t have the right equipment. BTDT, but I’d much rather just have the right equipment.

 

[WannFly]

I know that. The only real concern for me right now is border crossing. I’d have to look harder but I believe the US is requiring 1090 at the borders. My whole point to the OP was to consider the limitations on the 978 equipment before jumping onboard with his proximity to the border.

Also, as I said before, in a pinch you could cross using the transponder waiver option if you don’t have the right equipment. BTDT, but I’d much rather just have the right equipment.

Not worried about Canada until they allow basicmed, having said that I would prefer 1090

 

[WannFly]

If Avidyne would give me 4K for a 480 I'd take that deal in a heartbeat. If you have a panel space issue they can remote the transponder into the IFD. Spending other people's money is fun.

Any issues with your G5 set up with non Garmin gps?

 

[GRG55]

I know that. The only real concern for me right now is border crossing. I’d have to look harder but I believe the US is requiring 1090 at the borders...

Interesting. That's the first I've heard of this.
What you're implying is a compliant ADS-B installation for an aircraft that flies below 18,000 feet and isn't 1090ES can't leave or re-enter the USA?

 

[mondtster]

Interesting. That's the first I've heard of this.
What you're implying is a compliant ADS-B installation for an aircraft that flies below 18,000 feet and isn't 1090ES can't leave or re-enter the USA?

That is more or less my understanding, and in casual conversation today at the airport the subject came up and another guy is under the same belief. So we’re either both wrong or we’ve both seen/heard the same thing somewhere separately.

After mentioning the transponder waiver method previously I got to wondering if that would work in the future to work around not having ADS-B at the border or if it would only work for not having the old style mode c transponder. Now I’m not sure about that, and it will require additional research.

If I get some time I’ll search and see what I can find.

 

[GRG55]

That is more or less my understanding, and in casual conversation today at the airport the subject came up and another guy is under the same belief. So we’re either both wrong or we’ve both seen/heard the same thing somewhere separately.

After mentioning the transponder waiver method previously I got to wondering if that would work in the future to work around not having ADS-B at the border or if it would only work for not having the old style mode c transponder. Now I’m not sure about that, and it will require additional research.

If I get some time I’ll search and see what I can find.

I'll be going 1090ES in the Aztec, but still very interested in what you may discover through further inquiries.

I know some Canadian owners, including a couple with N number airplanes they own through US companies but keep in Canada. They all cross the border back and forth regularly. I believe they are all installing ADS-B Out so they can fly their planes into the USA next year. A very high percentage of the US Ports of Entry are controlled airspace, and their understanding is even a foreign registered plane can't fly in US controlled airspace without FAA compliant ADS-B Out from 01/01/20.

 

[Radar Contact]

Any issues with your G5 set up with non Garmin gps?

I still currently have a GNS530W and 430 (I think...going my the shop tomorrow to check on things) so I can't give you first hand experience yet. I am told, by the people at Avidyne, that there is absolutely no issue's connecting the IFD's to the G5's.

 

[BrianNC]

I still currently have a GNS530W and 430 (I think...going my the shop tomorrow to check on things) so I can't give you first hand experience yet. I am told, by the people at Avidyne, that there is absolutely no issue's connecting the IFD's to the G5's.

So you're getting a IFD 550/540/IFD440?

 

[flyingcheesehead]

my plan was to change the GDL 90R to 345R and call it a day for ADSB next winter

Can you control the 345R via that 480?

i should also say, i have ZERO space on my panel to add ANYTHING new. if i need to add something, something else will have to come off.

it looks like the only option i have is to take the GMX 200 out and use that place for 375, but i really like a MFD on the panel, and if i take out 480 i loose a NAV/COM....

And that is the difficult part of this. It doesn't look like you have anything that's the size of the 375, so you would need to shuffle some things anyway.

I would consider sticking with a GDL 82 or Skybeacon for ADS-B and leaving everything else alone. You may well sell the airplane before anything dies that would lead you in a new direction. That's an awfully nice panel for an Archer too! Very rare to see one so well equipped! And to get into the new stuff without losing the screen real estate you have, you'd be looking at a GTN 750. Very nice, but quite expensive.

It's unfortunate that the options for a 480 are limited. Nobody has a device exactly that size out right now, and I doubt we'll see one. So, once your 480 goes, you'll either have to put in a GTN 650, an IFD440 (in both cases losing about 0.6" vertically) or pull the GMX and start over on the left side. Given that, I would leave it alone for now. No really good options there.

Garmin has a trade-in offer on the 480. Does that sway your decision process any?

That might be worth exercising. You'll have to do something different eventually when it quits, and at that point there likely won't be any offers. Or, again, just leave it as is.

 

[bflynn]

BTW, is this the same airplane that a lineboy trashed with a snowplow? The one with the rebuilt firewall? The panel looks nearly identical.

 

[GBSoren]

Any issues with your G5 set up with non Garmin gps?

I run an IFD440 with a single G5 AI, no issues at all, work perfectly together. The next software update to the IFD's adds support for G5 HSI's. I think there are some using dual G5's with IFD's currently, so I'm not sure what additional functions the new software adds.

 

[asicer]

Can you control the 345R via that 480?

Garmin's chart says it will, but apparently that's all that it does. It won't display TIS-B/FIS-B.

https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/ads-b-decision.117187/page-4#post-2704369

 

[Radar Contact]

So you're getting a IFD 550/540/IFD440?

I'm still working out the details on the next episode of Kevin Vila's "This old airplane".

 

[GBSoren]

I'm still working out the details on the next episode of Kevin Vila's "This old airplane".

I think you have a 530/430 combo now, you could do the slide in replacement IFD550(540) and IFD440. Would play nicely with your newly installed EX500, should work well with your dual G5's, Stec 3100 and your 345. You still have good value in your 530/430's, plus you could do this yourself! No shop time.

I did my 430 to 440 swap, if I can do it you sure can!

One thing, if you want ADS-B weather on your IFD's, there is one extra line that needs to be ran between the 345 and IFD.

This spending others money is fun!

 

[WannFly]

BTW, is this the same airplane that a lineboy trashed with a snowplow? The one with the rebuilt firewall? The panel looks nearly identical.

Um, no, no one ever smashed a snowplow into her.

 

[WannFly]

Garmin's chart says it will, but apparently that's all that it does. It won't display TIS-B/FIS-B.

https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/ads-b-decision.117187/page-4#post-2704369

Yes, you can control the remote transponder with 480. For TIS-B it can display in Gmx 200, FIS-B is only text , not graphical

 

[WannFly]

Can you control the 345R via that 480?



And that is the difficult part of this. It doesn't look like you have anything that's the size of the 375, so you would need to shuffle some things anyway.

I would consider sticking with a GDL 82 or Skybeacon for ADS-B and leaving everything else alone. You may well sell the airplane before anything dies that would lead you in a new direction. That's an awfully nice panel for an Archer too! Very rare to see one so well equipped! And to get into the new stuff without losing the screen real estate you have, you'd be looking at a GTN 750. Very nice, but quite expensive.

It's unfortunate that the options for a 480 are limited. Nobody has a device exactly that size out right now, and I doubt we'll see one. So, once your 480 goes, you'll either have to put in a GTN 650, an IFD440 (in both cases losing about 0.6" vertically) or pull the GMX and start over on the left side. Given that, I would leave it alone for now. No really good options there.



That might be worth exercising. You'll have to do something different eventually when it quits, and at that point there likely won't be any offers. Or, again, just leave it as is.

Thanks. The panel was complete by AOPA . I did put in the JPI and dual G5 and the few other things like a digital clock, digital ammeter as they failed. As much as I want to put in a 375, I think I am going to pass for now and just add the 345R and call it a day later this year. Already have $$ to spend this annual for few things on the other side of the firewall.