Lets say I am a CFI-SP

SkyHog

SkyHog

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Ok, so lets say I am a CFI-SP. A private pilot comes in to get a Light Sport Flight Review.

He successfully completes it in an airplane that qualifies as Light Sport (and by default, that means it is also ASEL).

Does he now have a BFR for Private Pilot use?

I'm thinking yes, it was a BFR in the correct category. But I don't know for sure.
 
SkyHog said:
Ok, so lets say I am a CFI-SP. A private pilot comes in to get a Light Sport Flight Review.

He successfully completes it in an airplane that qualifies as Light Sport (and by default, that means it is also ASEL).

Does he now have a BFR for Private Pilot use?

I'm thinking yes, it was a BFR in the correct category. But I don't know for sure.
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I would say yes.
 
Check out 61.413, especially paragraphs (e) and (f). As I read that, a flight review conducted by a CFI-SP would only be valid for sport pilot privileges, regardless of the certificate held (although things get interesting if you're talking about a pilot with a recreational certificate).
 
Interesting comments, Jay -- and I can't say you're wrong (or right, either), but EAA's take on this is:
Q: I am a CFI-SP. A private pilot that has no medical take the BFR with me and fly LSA and later on obtains his medical again. Will the BFR at the SP level count towards his private BFR?
A: A flight review is a flight review. There are no "levels" of flight review. A pilot is allowed to take a flight review in any aircraft for which he/she is rated, and that flight review is valid for all certificates and ratings the pilot holds. This being the case, a flight review given to a pilot who holds a higher-level certificate but is operating at the sport pilot level would be valid when the pilot gains an FAA medical certificate and resumes exercising the privileges of his/her higher-level certificate.
http://www.sportpilot.org/questions/afmviewfaq.asp?faqid=69.
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Is that FAA-confirmed? Dunno, but it suggests Henning is right, although I've asked EAA to confirm that the FAA agrees with them.
 
Ron Levy said:
Interesting comments, Jay -- and I can't say you're wrong (or right, either), but EAA's take on this is:
Is that FAA-confirmed? Dunno, but it suggests Henning is right, although I've asked EAA to confirm that the FAA agrees with them.
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I have a feeling it'll be a little while before all the little ancillary questions get resolved. Considering what is involved in a flight review, I can't see where there would be a difference. The only thing I thought about was Nick said he was a "CFI-SP", now the question I began thinking about is "Is a CFI-SP rated to sign off a FR for a PP, or does he need to be a CFI-A?"
 
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Well if I can get a flight review from a CFI in an airplane and have it count as a FR for helicopter the CFI-SP thing shouldn't be a problem. But we are talking about the FAA here.
 
GigG601XL said:
Well if I can get a flight review from a CFI in an airplane and have it count as a FR for helicopter the CFI-SP thing shouldn't be a problem. But we are talking about the FAA here.
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You can definitely get a flight review from a CFI in an airplane and have it be valid for helicopter, as well. The only question is if a flight review with a CFI-SP in an airplane counts the same way. There are good arguments both ways; I suspect the final answer will come from the FAA.
 
GigG601XL said:
Well if I can get a flight review from a CFI in an airplane and have it count as a FR for helicopter the CFI-SP thing shouldn't be a problem. But we are talking about the FAA here.
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The difference is that that CFI has the authority to train and review the rating they were reviewing. A CFI SP, since they can't sign someone off for the PP-A rating, it leaves the question as to whether they can review that rating.
 
Henning said:
The difference is that that CFI has the authority to train and review the rating they were reviewing. A CFI SP, since they can't sign someone off for the PP-A rating, it leaves the question as to whether they can review that rating.
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So, how do I get a flight review?

I have a PP, but no medical (and ain't never gonna get one). That makes me a PP-A flying under the sport pilot rules - why can't I get my review from a CFI SP?
 
Henning said:
The difference is that that CFI has the authority to train and review the rating they were reviewing. A CFI SP, since they can't sign someone off for the PP-A rating, it leaves the question as to whether they can review that rating.
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The problem with that, Henning, is that if you're a PP-A, and you let your medical lapse, you're now SPCed. So using that logic, it would mean that you would still have to seek out a CFI-A to do the FR, instead of CFI-SP.

Holy cow, that's a lot of acronyms.
 
A CFI-SP will certainly be able to give anyone a flight review flying under the sport pilot rules regardless of their certificate. As a Private Pilot without a medical, flying under sport pilot, surely a CFI or CFI-SP would be just fine.
 
Henning said:
I have a feeling it'll be a little while before all the little ancillary questions get resolved. Considering what is involved in a flight review, I can't see where there would be a difference. The only thing I thought about was Nick said he was a "CFI-SP", now the question I began thinking about is "Is a CFI-SP rated to sign off a FR for a PP, or does he need to be a CFI-A?"
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EAA seems to think that's OK (see the FAQ quoted above), but as Jay notes, that isn't clear from 61.413(f). We'll see what EAA says in reply to my query on that.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
So, how do I get a flight review?

I have a PP, but no medical (and ain't never gonna get one). That makes me a PP-A flying under the sport pilot rules - why can't I get my review from a CFI SP?
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Not saying you can't, but the argument against that would be 61.413(f) says CFI-SP's can only sign flight reviews for sport pilots, and a Private Pilot is not a Sport Pilot even if s/he's only exercising Sport Pilot privileges (just like I hold an ATP but only exercise my PP privileges when I fly my Tiger for lunch somewhere).
61.413 said:
If you hold a fight flight instructor certificate with a sport pilot rating, you are authorized, within the limits of your certificate and rating, to provide training and logbook endorsements for—
(a) A student pilot seeking a sport pilot certificate;
(b) A sport pilot certificate;
(c) A flight instructor certificate with a sport pilot rating;
(d) A powered parachute or weight-shift-control aircraft rating;
(e) Sport pilot privileges;
(f) A flight review or operating privilege for a sport pilot;
(g) A practical test for a sport pilot certificate, a private pilot certificate with a powered parachute or weight-shift-control aircraft rating or a flight instructor certificate with a sport pilot rating;
(h) A knowledge test for a sport pilot certificate, a private pilot certificate with a powered parachute or weight-shift-control aircraft rating or a flight instructor certificate with a sport pilot rating; and
(i) A proficiency check for an additional category, class, or make and model privilege for a sport pilot certificate or a flight instructor certificate with a sport pilot rating.
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BTW, the "hold a fight flight instructor certificate" words are in the current version of actual regulation, which oughta tell you how careful they've been in writing this reg.:rolleyes:
 
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SkyHog said:
The problem with that, Henning, is that if you're a PP-A, and you let your medical lapse, you're now SPCed.
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No. Unless you surrender your PPC in exchange for a SPC (which you can do, but I can't imagine why you'd want to), you still hold a Private Pilot certificate, not a Sport Pilot certificate. Of course, until you get another medical, you may only exercise the lesser included Sport Pilot privileges, but you're still a Private Pilot, not a Sport Pilot.
 
ScottPA said:
A CFI-SP will certainly be able to give anyone a flight review flying under the sport pilot rules regardless of their certificate.
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Unless you've got a Chief Counsel interpretation to that effect, I would suggest you not say "certainly." I, for two (me and Jay), see how 61.413(f) could be interpreted otherwise.
 
Henning said:
The difference is that that CFI has the authority to train and review the rating they were reviewing. A CFI SP, since they can't sign someone off for the PP-A rating, it leaves the question as to whether they can review that rating.
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My point was that if I go out and get a FR in an airplane from a CFI who has never ever even been in a helicopter I'm good to go in a helicopter.
 
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The FAA has decided that a shack constitutes a congested area. I have little doubt they won't allow it the minute they feel the need to blame a PP or a CFI-SP for something.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
So, how do I get a flight review?

I have a PP, but no medical (and ain't never gonna get one). That makes me a PP-A flying under the sport pilot rules - why can't I get my review from a CFI SP?
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Because your certificate says "Private Pilot" not "Sport Pilot"? Truly, I don't have the answer to my questions, just pointing out potential arguments I can see being used. I haven't seen any verbiage from the Feds that leads me to lean one way or the other though I feel myself wobbling towards "No" because there are many other places where the FAA distinguishes between "Rated as" and "Acting as".
 
Ron Levy said:
Unless you've got a Chief Counsel interpretation to that effect, I would suggest you not say "certainly." I, for two (me and Jay), see how 61.413(f) could be interpreted otherwise.
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Interesting, it seemed to me I was agreeing with you. I will certainly refrain from using the word certainly in any future posts. :rolleyes:
 
This thread is interesting, indeed. I have just returned to the skies after a 37 year hiatus from flying. Of course (back then) I had a PP-ASEL, but never did any flying other than what fits today's SP definition.

I started working on rebuilding my skills at a Sport Pilot flight school and then had a demo flight at another airport with one plane and one CFI-SP. I was a bit leery about that arrangement and went back to the original Sport Pilot Flight School where I had a full CFI as an instructor. But the aircraft were all S-LSA Tecnams.

But then I ran into so many scheduling hassles I bought a nice Ercoupe and based it at an airport closer to home - and switched instructors again. This one was a CFI and I was "finishing up" in a certificated airplane that is also LSA eligible. I successfully completed my BFR two weeks ago and am having a ball - flying as a Private Pilot acting as a Sport Pilot.

I also had some of that "refresher" training in a C-172 and a Citabria. So, if I would choose to get my medical I will be eligible to fly anything that my original Private Pilot certificate allows.

Overkill? Maybe. But, one of my goals in getting back into the air was to do it with enough varied training/re-training to bring my proficiency back. I do not want to be just a pilot - I want to be a safe pilot.
 
Ron Levy said:
ScottPA said:
A CFI-SP will certainly be able to give anyone a flight review flying under the sport pilot rules regardless of their certificate. As a Private Pilot without a medical, flying under sport pilot, surely a CFI or CFI-SP would be just fine.
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Unless you've got a Chief Counsel interpretation to that effect, I would suggest you not say "certainly." I, for two (me and Jay), see how 61.413(f) could be interpreted otherwise.
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And, actually, I would argue that a CFI-SP could indeed perform a flight review for a private pilot operating under the sport pilot rules, but that review would only be valid for sport pilot privileges. I can see how Ron's interpretation is plausible, however, and would not want to bet against the Chief Counsel saying that was the way it worked.
 
So we now have three possibilities, for each of which I can see an argument based on the wording in 61.413(f):
  1. CFI-SP can only give a flight review to someone with "Sport Pilot" in Block II of his/her pilot certificate
  2. CFI-SP can give a flight review in an SP airplane to any pilot rated SP or higher, but it's only good for Sport Pilot privileges
  3. CFI-SP can give a flight review in an SP airplane to any pilot rated SP or higher, and it's good for any rating or privilege that pilot has
EAA says answer #3 is correct, but the FAA Chief Counsel hasn't given any indication of how they interpret 61.413(f). If it were me getting a flight review in a SP airplane, unless someone gets something in writing from FAA Legal, I'd make sure I got it from a CFI with at least an ASE rating, not just SP only. That way, there's no question that it's valid across the board.
 
JOOC, are there any differences in 'required tasks' for the SP vs. PP flight review?
 
This page, about the final docket publishing the new rule, tells us who to contact with questions:

http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_G...1d47971728e12ba286256edf004385aa!OpenDocument

FOR FURTHER INFORMATION CONTACT: For questions on airman certification and operational issues (parts 1, 61, and 91 of title 14, Code of Federal Regulations (14 CFR)), contact Susan Gardner, Flight Standards Service, General Aviation and Commercial Division (AFS-800), Federal Aviation Administration, 800 Independence Ave., SW., Washington, DC 20591; telephone 907-271-2034 or 202-267-8212.
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CJones said:
JOOC, are there any differences in 'required tasks' for the SP vs. PP flight review?
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There are no "required tasks" in 61.56(a) for any flight review other than "a review of the current general operating and flight rules of part 91 of this chapter" as part of the ground training. There are only recommendations in AC 61-98A.
 
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