Length of time for initial CFI

labbadabba

labbadabba

Pattern Altitude
Joined
Aug 12, 2014
Messages
2,391
Location
Lawrence, KS
Display Name
Display name:
labbadabba
I've been in discussions with a highly regarded CFII here in KC to complete my own CFI training. I work full time but I've proposed that the month of July that I would take time off work and do sessions with him 3 days a week for 2 hours per. I feel that over the course of a month I should be able to get pretty close but he says typically CFI candidates take around 6 months to complete.

That sounded a little extreme to me. I've not done any of the written stuff yet but I feel like I have a pretty good grasp of the material. (FOI still giving me fits tho)

Does this sound like a workable plan? I don't want to go thru the hassle of parsing out my vacation time at work if this is a bad idea.
 
What is the CFI’s schedule like and what is yours like? If they can give you undivided attention and you’re reasonably sharp coming in you could have it done in a little over a week. Six months seems like a long time, even if you’re working at it part time.

I got my flight instructor certificate in about a month working diligently on it while maintaining a full time job plus another part time one....
 
mondtster said:
What is the CFI’s schedule like and what is yours like? If they can give you undivided attention and you’re reasonably sharp coming in you could have it done in a little over a week. Six months seems like a long time, even if you’re working at it part time.

I got my flight instructor certificate in about a month working diligently on it while maintaining a full time job plus another part time one....
Click to expand...

Awesome... you're giving me hope on this....:)
 
If you want it done right it will take time. Or you can just squeak by, be a CFI that really doesn’t know what they are doing. Produce **** poor students that just make it through a checkride continuing a vicious cycle that has been going on for many years. Also do want to be that CFI that has to go on forums and ask completely idiotic questions about things that a CFI should know.
 
It took me about 20 hours dual, plus assorted solo practice, plus about 10 hours ground (mock-teaching stuff to my CFI), plus countless hours self-studying from a Gleim book and preparing lesson plans. About 3 months at what I would call a "casual pace".
 
labbadabba said:
I've been in discussions with a highly regarded CFII here in KC to complete my own CFI training. I work full time but I've proposed that the month of July that I would take time off work and do sessions with him 3 days a week for 2 hours per. I feel that over the course of a month I should be able to get pretty close but he says typically CFI candidates take around 6 months to complete.

That sounded a little extreme to me. I've not done any of the written stuff yet but I feel like I have a pretty good grasp of the material. (FOI still giving me fits tho)

Does this sound like a workable plan? I don't want to go thru the hassle of parsing out my vacation time at work if this is a bad idea.
Click to expand...

My initial CFI was many moons ago, but I took a full year to prepare. That was with a full time job (I was a business owner at the time, anyway) but I over-prepared -- if it's possible -- for the CFI.

6 months sounds about right for most applicants who are able to apply themselves full-time, or nearly full-time, to studying and preparing for the practical test.

There's not a lot of leeway when it comes to Flight Instructor certification, and for good reason. If you can "get it all right" the first time, every time, then maybe you are ready. Not many applicants can truly say that until they've really put themselves through the ringer, though.

If your study habits are strong and you are disciplined in your time management, I would target six months. Perhaps more, if not.
 
labbadabba said:
I've been in discussions with a highly regarded CFII here in KC to complete my own CFI training. I work full time but I've proposed that the month of July that I would take time off work and do sessions with him 3 days a week for 2 hours per. I feel that over the course of a month I should be able to get pretty close but he says typically CFI candidates take around 6 months to complete.

That sounded a little extreme to me. I've not done any of the written stuff yet but I feel like I have a pretty good grasp of the material. (FOI still giving me fits tho)

Does this sound like a workable plan? I don't want to go thru the hassle of parsing out my vacation time at work if this is a bad idea.
Click to expand...

If you want also want to be a highly regarded CFI, shut up and follow the program. You are fortunate to get that CFI for your training.
 
I think I did maybe 50-80 hours of self study over 3 months, then over another 3 months about 10-15 hours ground with a CFI and 10-15 hours flight time. The writtens were done before I started. Overall it was indeed about a 6 month process. There was additional study and preparation time in between the lessons with my CFI so I couldn't have sped it up much.
 
Mine took 23 months, 23 days. My own fault, but I would study and prep and burn out or get side tracked with other exploits. Finally reached a point where I would either finish, or let my writtens expire. I had already decided I wasn't going through the cost of doing two writtens again, so I finished.

Unfortunately I am on a similar track for my CFII. Between instructing, my full time job, volunteering, and just life in general, it hasn't been a priority since passing that written.
 
mondtster said:
If I can pass the initial CFI checkride the first time anyone can, with a little practice and study. :)
Click to expand...

I did it with ALOT of practice and study....:lol::lol:

It took me 4 weeks for the initial CFI. And I spent every day all day long (and most of the nights) working on it, and I had all the written test already done. I was at an accelerated flight school.

I spent many evenings in the flight school library helping students working on private and instrument.
 
So I do CFI initial training and six months is a really long time if you can dedicate three to four days a week meeting two to three hours a day. If you can only do two times a week, yeah it might take 6 months or more. Most of your time training for the CFI initial is self / home study prep for the the oral. Now that the FAA has deferred all CFI initials to DPEs the oral has gotten a little more reasonable but it is still the hardest oral portion of a check you will ever take. I can generally get my students ready for the checkride in two month. That is meeting with them three to for times a weeks. Average student is about 20 hours of ground and 15 hours in the air.

Once again though the brunt of the time will be spent studying by yourself. Don't spend to much time on the FOI. Know the key elements and be able to speak confidentially about it but from what I've seen the DPEs spend about 30 minutes on it and then move on to the Technical subject area's.

Mike
 
I've seen people take a year, and others take 3 months. Primarily it depends on the depth of previous training, life events, and willingness to just go all-in on self studying.

Myself it took me 4 months after my commercial checkride, primarily because that was my intention for getting the commercial to begin with. It was also over the winter, not that flying is the important part.
 
Your mileage may vary...

As you can see there are people here who have taken some time getting their CFI and others who went through the process quite rapidly. Myself, I completed my CFI/CFII in about 4.5 weeks of solo prep work spending no more than 4 hours in any 1 day, 8 hours in any 3 day period and 15 hours per week working on it. I spent another 7.5 weeks of working with an instructor which again was again mostly limited to a 3 hours session per day single session per day with no more than 9 hours in any 3 day period and still no more than 15 hours per week (day/week of checkride not withstanding due to 8+ hour checkride).

I probably could have shortened the solo portion by at least 2-3 weeks if it had been my sole focus and I dedicated myself to it. I definitely could have shortened the portion with an instructor by a similar 2 or 3 weeks had my CFI/CFII and DPE been more available and probably another 1 or 2 weeks on top of that if I, my CFI/CFII and my DPE had the availability to do more than 1 session a day every other *ish* day. As it was, I dont know that I would have shortened it much more than I did. The rate that I did it in was broken out into nicely digestible chunks with plenty of "off time."

I did about 60 hours of solo prep work + another 12 hours taking exams (FIA/FII/FOI/AGI/IGI).
I then did 24 hours of ground with an instructor in 3 hour increments spending an average of 1.5 hours per chapter of the Handbook of Aeronautical knowledge (some chapters were consolidated) with a 1.5 hour FOI review. Followed by 12 hours in a plane with my instructor, 3 hours solo and 1.5 hours (plus 1 hour of ground) with a different instructor getting my spin endorsement. My check ride was 8.5 hours.

For my CFII, I added another 10-12 hours of ground with an instructor and 6 hours in the air and had a 4 hour checkride.

All that being said, 6 months definitely seems excessive but 4-5 weeks would probably be a comfortable rate to get just CFI-A Initial done.
 
Last edited:
I did my initial CFI as as an instrument airplane check ride, which I think was a great choice for me. I was very proficient at instrument flying, and was really motivated to teach others. Afterwards, I was immediately able to teach instrument flight training, which I preferred over initial private training. It’s hard to say how long it took, because from the day I completed my instrument check ride I considered myself to be prepping for my CFI, even though I did my commercial SEL and MEL before CFI-IA.

My tip: start your learning now. Study the ACS (PTS) and build your syllabus towards becoming an instructor. Because that’s essentially what you’ll be tested on...teaching, lesson plans, learning where to go to get the information you need, scenario based learning, etc. Use your instructor as a mentor, evaluator, spiritual advisor, but be self-directed. Unlike other certificates and ratings, becoming an instructor is not as simple as showing up and being told what to learn to pass the checkride.
 
2 weeks treating it like a fulltime job or 1 month. Seems to me 10 to 15 hours in the air and self study 2 hrs a day is plenty. You already have the knowledge just gotta teach it/demonstrate a bit more in depth knowlege on the technical stuff.

Around 80% pass first attempt the rides a bit overhyped imo.
 
TommyG said:
If you want it done right it will take time. Or you can just squeak by, be a CFI that really doesn’t know what they are doing. Produce **** poor students that just make it through a checkride continuing a vicious cycle that has been going on for many years. Also do want to be that CFI that has to go on forums and ask completely idiotic questions about things that a CFI should know.
Click to expand...

I suppose you have statistics that can back up the claim that it will take time and that the CFI's who dont take the time, dont know what they are doing and produce pi*s poor students?

If you know what you're doing and know the material, there is no reason to spend 6 months going over everything.

As to the question; its not an idiotic question to ask the experience of others. The OP is also notably not yet a CFI so the idea that they should know how long it takes to become a CFI, which is something they have no experience with from a student or instructor perspective, is laughable. Aside from that you dont know what you dont know and any CFI who is willing to admit they dont know something and need to consult other material (another CFI, a book, an online forum, etc) is a heck of a lot better than a CFI who thinks he knows everything and/or gives bad instruction.

There are plenty of topics that get debated here on PoA by plenty of pilots and CFI's with lots of experience; are they all idiots?

Frankly, I'd rather someone ask an "idiotic question that they should know the answer to" than someone make an idiotic and useless statement about the character of the person.
 
apr911 said:
I suppose you have statistics that can back up the claim that it will take time and that the CFI's who dont take the time, dont know what they are doing and produce pi*s poor students?

If you know what you're doing and know the material, there is no reason to spend 6 months going over everything.

As to the question; its not an idiotic question to ask the experience of others. The OP is also notably not yet a CFI so the idea that they should know how long it takes to become a CFI, which is something they have no experience with from a student or instructor perspective, is laughable. Aside from that you dont know what you dont know and any CFI who is willing to admit they dont know something and need to consult other material (another CFI, a book, an online forum, etc) is a heck of a lot better than a CFI who thinks he knows everything and/or gives bad instruction.

There are plenty of topics that get debated here on PoA by plenty of pilots and CFI's with lots of experience; are they all idiots?

Frankly, I'd rather someone ask an "idiotic question that they should know the answer to" than someone make an idiotic and useless statement about the character of the person.
Click to expand...

My whole point was to not try and knock it out quickly. If anyone knows the information required to teach beyond the ACS, they can do it faster than others. Look at some CFIs Tha have gone through the CFI mill and know just the bare minimum to pass a checkride. The CFI ride is a long process requiring a lot of knowledge. And to be a efficient and good CFI someone should take the time, effort, and pride in doing the the right way. I see many CFI applicants think they know all the information. Then they soon realize they aren’t as quite prepared as they thought they were.

And this all leads into low grade CFIs flooding the airports with thier lack of knowledge.Sorry I don’t have documentation to show you what I see on a daily basis. I can tell you I have had students and seen quite a few that I have got as a finish up, wanting to add another certificate that don’t even know of the 91 Regs, 61 Regs. I see many that have never really read a POH. And the if you go on CFI forums, it is somewhat embarrassing when a CFI goes on there and asks a question that they should know the information, but they don’t. So instead of actually opening a book where that information is located, they either google or go on a forum and ask. As a teacher one should go right to the proper source for information. Otherwise the wrong information is being trickled down to new students.
 
That’s not so much the time they put into it as it is how important they think the process is.
 
TommyG said:
My whole point was to not try and knock it out quickly. If anyone knows the information required to teach beyond the ACS, they can do it faster than others. Look at some CFIs Tha have gone through the CFI mill and know just the bare minimum to pass a checkride. The CFI ride is a long process requiring a lot of knowledge. And to be a efficient and good CFI someone should take the time, effort, and pride in doing the the right way. I see many CFI applicants think they know all the information. Then they soon realize they aren’t as quite prepared as they thought they were.

And this all leads into low grade CFIs flooding the airports with thier lack of knowledge.Sorry I don’t have documentation to show you what I see on a daily basis. I can tell you I have had students and seen quite a few that I have got as a finish up, wanting to add another certificate that don’t even know of the 91 Regs, 61 Regs. I see many that have never really read a POH. And the if you go on CFI forums, it is somewhat embarrassing when a CFI goes on there and asks a question that they should know the information, but they don’t. So instead of actually opening a book where that information is located, they either google or go on a forum and ask. As a teacher one should go right to the proper source for information. Otherwise the wrong information is being trickled down to new students.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately some of those CFIs end up with (or featured on) successful YouTube channels.
 
MauleSkinner said:
That’s not so much the time they put into it as it is how important they think the process is.
Click to expand...

Also the reason why they’re doing it. If there is little or no desire to actually teach then that applicant isn’t likely to learn much in the process of becoming a flight instructor, regardless of how long they work at the training.
 
TommyG said:
My whole point was to not try and knock it out quickly. If anyone knows the information required to teach beyond the ACS, they can do it faster than others. Look at some CFIs Tha have gone through the CFI mill and know just the bare minimum to pass a checkride. The CFI ride is a long process requiring a lot of knowledge. And to be a efficient and good CFI someone should take the time, effort, and pride in doing the the right way. I see many CFI applicants think they know all the information. Then they soon realize they aren’t as quite prepared as they thought they were.

And this all leads into low grade CFIs flooding the airports with thier lack of knowledge.Sorry I don’t have documentation to show you what I see on a daily basis. I can tell you I have had students and seen quite a few that I have got as a finish up, wanting to add another certificate that don’t even know of the 91 Regs, 61 Regs. I see many that have never really read a POH. And the if you go on CFI forums, it is somewhat embarrassing when a CFI goes on there and asks a question that they should know the information, but they don’t. So instead of actually opening a book where that information is located, they either google or go on a forum and ask. As a teacher one should go right to the proper source for information. Otherwise the wrong information is being trickled down to new students.
Click to expand...

I will concede that the recent crops of CFI's have indeed had many as you describe however, I will second @MauleSkinner and @mondtster in that the importance they place on learning the material and their motivations for becoming a CFI play greater parts in the quality of their instruction than the number of hours they spend working on it.

I'd also note that our inability to adequately measure experience plays a significant part as well. "We" view hours logged and flights over 50NM as the primary measure of experience but I would hazard the PPL bush pilot flying flying short trips but landing on all manners of surfaces and lengths has more experience than the average CFI of the CFI-mill sort that has never left the state, never seen an actual mountain or encountered the associated mountain wave or orographic clouds that can tower thousands of feet above the terrain and has only ever landed on asphalt of 50' or wider and greater 2000' in length.

I think the CFI-mills run afoul both in their condensed curriculum but also in their lack of real world flying and real world encounters. The CFI-mills not only reduce the training and the experience requirements but they also dont allow for "true experience" and growth. The difference between someone with 10 years of experience vs someone with 1 year of experience 10 times over. I only recently completed my CFI/CFII and may not have all that many hours but I'd still pit my hours flying in multiple areas of the country and multiple planes and multiple flight against the average CFI-mill pilot of twice my hours. I still find my time in tailwheels to be invaluable, the time spent around many Bravos and the 40NM I spent taking a Grumman Tiger up to and above its service ceiling to get over the orographic clouds over the Sierra Nevada's and various other experiences to be some of the greatest flight experiences I've had... Meanwhile I've flown with a product of a CFI-mill in Florida who's closet encounter with an obstacle was the 2000' radio tower a few miles from their home field.
 
apr911 said:
I think the CFI-mills run afoul both in their condensed curriculum but also in their lack of real world flying and real world encounters. The CFI-mills not only reduce the training and the experience requirements but they also dont allow for "true experience" and growth. The difference between someone with 10 years of experience vs someone with 1 year of experience 10 times over. I only recently completed my CFI/CFII and may not have all that many hours but I'd still pit my hours flying in multiple areas of the country and multiple planes and multiple flight against the average CFI-mill pilot of twice my hours. I still find my time in tailwheels to be invaluable, the time spent around many Bravos and the 40NM I spent taking a Grumman Tiger up to and above its service ceiling to get over the orographic clouds over the Sierra Nevada's and various other experiences to be some of the greatest flight experiences I've had... Meanwhile I've flown with a product of a CFI-mill in Florida who's closet encounter with an obstacle was the 2000' radio tower a few miles from their home field.
Click to expand...

The “CFI Mills” as you call them only exist because there are students desiring that kind of accelerated training. In other words, you could say that the students have a desire to cut corners and the flight school is facilitating that.

It comes down to personality and what the student wants out of the training. If the sole desire is to have a certificate and build hours to get some “dream job” then they will only put in what it takes to get to where they are going. If the student has a goal of actually learning something and exposing themselves to various different aspects of flying then they’ll be a more well rounded pilot. The school is only a small part of this.

I’ve got one student right now who is a prime example of saying they want something but they put little effort into accomplishing it. He’s trying to build hours toward his commercial certificate and owns an airplane yet you rarely see him at the airport flying and when he does, he just goes to the practice area and flys circles for 30 minutes and comes back. I’ve told him time and time again that he needs to be working on airmanship skills and doing some flying that challenges him but he won’t listen. At some point he’ll want to get a flight instructor certificate and he won’t have done anything to make himself a good instructor. As a CFI, all we can do is drag them along and hope for the best but we can’t make them learn something. He’ll likely end up one of the CFIs people complain about that lacks real world experience.
 
mondtster said:
The “CFI Mills” as you call them only exist because there are students desiring that kind of accelerated training. In other words, you could say that the students have a desire to cut corners and the flight school is facilitating that.

It comes down to personality and what the student wants out of the training. If the sole desire is to have a certificate and build hours to get some “dream job” then they will only put in what it takes to get to where they are going. If the student has a goal of actually learning something and exposing themselves to various different aspects of flying then they’ll be a more well rounded pilot. The school is only a small part of this.

I’ve got one student right now who is a prime example of saying they want something but they put little effort into accomplishing it. He’s trying to build hours toward his commercial certificate and owns an airplane yet you rarely see him at the airport flying and when he does, he just goes to the practice area and flys circles for 30 minutes and comes back. I’ve told him time and time again that he needs to be working on airmanship skills and doing some flying that challenges him but he won’t listen. At some point he’ll want to get a flight instructor certificate and he won’t have done anything to make himself a good instructor. As a CFI, all we can do is drag them along and hope for the best but we can’t make them learn something. He’ll likely end up one of the CFIs people complain about that lacks real world experience.
Click to expand...

CFI-mill was the term used by @TommyG I merely continued its use.

Otherwise, I agree with your statement and at risk of turning this into a stick and rudder debate, its disconcerting how the accepted pipeline of future airline pilots lack that real world experience. It of course also once again raises the question of are we really any safer in the wake of the ATP minimum hour requirement change that came about following Colgan Air 3407; a rule change that was proposed by the Airline Pilots Association, an organization that stood to directly benefit from the change and notably would not have prevented that incident in the first place seeing as how both pilots had significantly more hours than required. If reports are to be believed, it was the 250 hour First Officer on the Ethiopian 737-Max that correctly identified the issue as a problem with the MCAS/Stabilizer Trim system and it was just the improper recovery technique used after disabling the system and subsequent re-enabling of the system that caused the crash. Again the difference between measuring experience by hours/years and measuring experience using a less objective and more subjective evaluation methodology. The only thing I can say is that the rule change forced out those not dedicated to putting in the time but it also increased wages making the job that much more attractive/desirable and created a whole group of apathetic CFI's in it for the time building more than the teaching or experience.
 
Ryan F. said:
6 months sounds about right for most applicants who are able to apply themselves full-time, or nearly full-time, to studying and preparing for the practical test.
Click to expand...
Who in the world could devote 6 months to being a full time student for a single rating? I understand it is extremely important and it is not like other ratings but most people have to work for a living! I guess this is why there is a “pilot shortage.” Unrealistic time frames, costs, experience requirements, and ~$600 DPE fees for checkrides you may or may not pass. I’m going to start investing in drone manufacturers.
 
Last edited:
6 months is what I usually tell most average pilots wanting to get their initial CFI, but that is based on 3-4 lessons per week, and probably another 4-8 hours a week of self study. Not full time, and if it has been 2 or more years since complete their commercial rating. Having knowledge tests done will shorten the time. If you can do more or have only recently completed your commercial rating it could be significantly less also.

I was supposed to be working full time with a CFI applicant last week and this week to see how much we could get done during his scheduled time off work. On the run up for our 1st flight together a Magneto failed to pass the run up. He ordered new Mags got them but didn't get the required gaskets. Then he caught the flu and has been sick for the past 6 days along with the airplane still being down. He hopes his mechanic will have the airplane airworthy again tomorrow, and that he is feeling good enough to resume flying, But we only have about 2 days left of the 2 weeks he had scheduled.

Just pointing out that the problem with doing it with a hard deadline is that stuff tends to happen that will delay your plans. Just sort of the way aviation often works.

Brian
CFIIIG/ASEL
 
Let me add that if I was going by total hours. And I mean total hours, self study, plane, ground with CFI everything. I would expect that most people would be in the 150-200hr range. There will be some that are less, because their previous training was stellar and or they are a natural teacher. There will be others above because they frankly don't have commercial level knowledge or any sort of teaching skills.

So figure 150-200hrs, how you can fit that into your personal schedule determines most of the calendar month argument. And I would agree with the initial assessment that the average person around here takes about 6 months, the average person seems to have other things going on as well. The reality is, it is going to take some time to learn the material. It is a different mentality than the commercial rating.

So who's the CFI? You don't have to post it publicly.
 
William D. Meredith II said:
Who in the world could devote 6 months to being a full time student for a single rating? I understand it is extremely important and it is not like other ratings but most people have to work for a living! I guess this is why there is a “pilot shortage.” Unrealistic time frames, costs, experience requirements, and ~$600 DPE fees for checkrides you may or may not pass. I’m going to start investing in drone manufacturers.
Click to expand...

More like $1000+ for CFI checkrides in my neck of the woods.

Yes, it's a lot, and enough to discourage many. But there's benefit to that as well, because it puts the right people on the right path. Even with hiring off the charts and opportunities abound in the present climate, flying for a living has never been an easy life choice. It's hard on families, the precision required means high liability with little room for error, and the pay at the early going isn't very good -- especially for flight instructors.

We have long had a real challenge in the industry keeping quality flight instructors engaged. Not surprisingly, it's a difficult financial proposition. I'm a textbook case. I've always loved instructing, but I was forced to do less and less of it over time given other opportunities. These days it's a rare event.

For someone who would like to have a long, rewarding career in part-time flight instruction, the opportunity and demand is there. No, you're probably not going to make a lot of money, but you'll be enjoying aviation in the most rewarding way possible, in my opinion anyway -- by sharing it with others. And eventually, you can recoup your investment.

Given how expensive it is to keep a simple C-172 aloft for an hour these days, that alone is worth a lot.
 
William D. Meredith II said:
Who in the world could devote 6 months to being a full time student for a single rating? I understand it is extremely important and it is not like other ratings but most people have to work for a living! I guess this is why there is a “pilot shortage.” Unrealistic time frames, costs, experience requirements, and ~$600 DPE fees for checkrides you may or may not pass. I’m going to start investing in drone manufacturers.
Click to expand...

$600 seems to be the going rate for "standard" checkrides (PPL/IRA/CPL, CFI Add-ons and renewals) in most places. CFI-Initials seem to be running $900+ these days. Class add-on's at the same level as your existing certificate seem to be in the $500 range.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top