Legality of LED landing/taxi lights

Challenged

Challenged

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So, I'd like to replace the landing/taxi lights on my Sierra with LED units...brighter, less heat, less power. I've found mixed opinions as to whether or not I can just swap these out with my current bulbs without any sort of stamp of validation from someone. I see a few manufacturers have received STCs for their bulbs, and I'm wondering if that was just so they could charge more and/or for marketing and their own legal purposes than for any sort of actual requirement on my end. Please enlighten me.
 
Yep, welcome to the world of STC's and PMA's. What's the difference? A certificate. In all fairness, it does eliminate some of the cheap Chinese crap that could cause a fire or other trouble.... so there is some validity to it. My favorite is the Chrysler alternators that are identical, but one has a seal of approval while the others don't.
 
Just do it. The FAA inspectors have to worry about real airplanes and real operators. It was like that when you got it.


Not serious.




Kinda serious.
 
A prominent mechanic and friend had his mechanic license suspended for 90 days over his sign-off of not quite perfectly legal LED lights in a private 185. A 90 day suspension in the summer in Alaska is a very serious penalty.

That said I used Whelen Parmetheus. Not cheap but well worth it for me. In combination with a MaxPulse flasher the crispness of the wig wag cycle is 1000% better than the same setup using halogens.
 
Stewartb said:
A prominent mechanic and friend had his mechanic license suspended for 90 days over his sign-off of not quite perfectly legal LED lights in a private 185. A 90 day suspension in the summer in Alaska is a very serious penalty.

That said I used Whelen Parmetheus. Not cheap but well worth it for me. In combination with a MaxPulse flasher the crispness of the wig wag cycle is 1000% better than the same setup using halogens.
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Safety be damned, the only thing the anchorage fsdo cares about is being legal.

LED lights, no matter how shady the installation is, are a HUGE increase in safety
 
DavidWhite said:
Safety be damned, the only thing the anchorage fsdo cares about is being legal.

LED lights, no matter how shady the installation is, are a HUGE increase in safety
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Yup. That landing light never goes off and it's very visible in the day. The FSDO can go bother someone else.


Not serious.
 
DavidWhite said:
Safety be damned, the only thing the anchorage fsdo cares about is being legal.

LED lights, no matter how shady the installation is, are a HUGE increase in safety
Click to expand...

The role of the FSDO is to maintain FAA standards. We all get the difference between certificated and experimental but that's not the FSDO's problem. As for safer? How's that?
 
Love my Alphabeam, although I still haven't really had a chance to test it at night, lol. Looks great in the hangar with the light out though!! :D
 
Stewartb said:
The role of the FSDO is to maintain FAA standards. We all get the difference between certificated and experimental but that's not the FSDO's problem. As for safer? How's that?
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Increased visibility to other aircraft during the day, much brighter and wider beam for nighttime landings, and much higher reliability.
 
I think the HID guys could argue. I honestly don't think my own LED forward facing lights are brighter than my halogens were. The flashing works much better. I just replaced all the fluorescent tubes throughout my commercial shop and offices and switched to LEDs. If you think airplane lights are expensive???? But in this case there's a payoff in energy savings in about two years. Not so with aircraft lights. The advantage is primarily in low current draws and that isn't really a factor until you start using small and light alternators like in Cubs. Don't get me wrong, I like my LEDs but I'm not convinced they'll save lives or improve flight safety. In my eyes the best recognition lights are still Whelen Comet Flash conventional strobes. LED strobes I've seen can't touch those. But that'll change soon enough.
 
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Stewartb said:
I think the HID guys could argue. I honestly don't think my own LED forward facing lights are brighter than my halogens were. The flashing works much better. I just replaced all the fluorescent tubes throughout my commercial shop and offices and switched to LEDs. If you think airplane lights are expensive???? But in this case there's a payoff in energy savings in about two years. Not so with aircraft lights. The advantage is primarily in low current draws and that isn't really a factor until you start using small and light alternators like in Cubs. Don't get me wrong, I like my LEDs but I'm not convinced they'll save lives or improve flight safety. In my eyes the best recognition lights are still Whelen Comet Flash conventional strobes. LED strobes I've seen can't touch those. But that'll change soon enough.
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I've flown the same Cherokee, before it got LED and after. After, it was much, much brighter and easier to see at night.

I've only flown five different planes as a younger pilot, but the three that had LEDs were all much better.
 
Smoke and mirrors. The FAA just pretty much said install whatever AOA you want in your GA airplane but get upset over LED landing/taxi lights :goofy:

It wasn't that long ago when you needed an STC to install basically an type of wireless device that transmits.
 
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You will find that the replacement LED bulbs are now considered a direct replacement for the OEM.
 
Stewartb said:
A prominent mechanic and friend had his mechanic license suspended for 90 days over his sign-off of not quite perfectly legal LED lights in a private 185. A 90 day suspension in the summer in Alaska is a very serious penalty.

That said I used Whelen Parmetheus. Not cheap but well worth it for me. In combination with a MaxPulse flasher the crispness of the wig wag cycle is 1000% better than the same setup using halogens.
Click to expand...

So how would this work out for an owner replacing their own landing light with a non-STC'd LED light? The FAR's say that an owner can do this as approved maintenance, and there's no A&P license to suspend, so what are they gonna do?
 
I sucked it up and purchased 2 Whelen lights and I'll return the Grote I purchased. Nearly $500 for two light bulbs.
 
StinkBug said:
So how would this work out for an owner replacing their own landing light with a non-STC'd LED light? The FAR's say that an owner can do this as approved maintenance, and there's no A&P license to suspend, so what are they gonna do?
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At the annual, the IA pulls the illegal bulb, replaces it with an owner provided legal bulb, makes a "replaced bulb" entry, and hands the keys, illegal bulb, and logbooks back to the owner.

Who spends 5 minutes re-installing the illegal bulb.

Alternately, the owner swaps the legal bulb back in before the annual...
 
Stewartb said:
I think the HID guys could argue. I honestly don't think my own LED forward facing lights are brighter than my halogens were. The flashing works much better. I just replaced all the fluorescent tubes throughout my commercial shop and offices and switched to LEDs. If you think airplane lights are expensive???? But in this case there's a payoff in energy savings in about two years. Not so with aircraft lights. The advantage is primarily in low current draws and that isn't really a factor until you start using small and light alternators like in Cubs. Don't get me wrong, I like my LEDs but I'm not convinced they'll save lives or improve flight safety. In my eyes the best recognition lights are still Whelen Comet Flash conventional strobes. LED strobes I've seen can't touch those. But that'll change soon enough.
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The HIDs are really the ultimate for lighting something up.

LEDs are great for being seen, nav lights, interior lights, maybe taxi lights, but for landing lights HID is the ideal light IMO.

Of course you're talking 1k for a set

http://www.knots2u.net/hid-landing-taxi-light-kit-cessna-single-engine-wing-mount/
 
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StinkBug said:
So how would this work out for an owner replacing their own landing light with a non-STC'd LED light? The FAR's say that an owner can do this as approved maintenance, and there's no A&P license to suspend, so what are they gonna do?
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I'd imagine come after the license used for the install, in this case your pilots license :dunno:

Of course shy of having a huge NAPA logo on the light, you'd really have to do something to get the fed to dig so deep into the plane for it to ever be noticed, even at a ramp check.
 
If nobody logged the install, how do they know whose cert to come after?
 
StinkBug said:
If nobody logged the install, how do they know whose cert to come after?
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Of you ticked the Feds off to the point they are inspecting your landing light, I'd wager seeing the last time a landing light was installed in the logs might tell them who the owner was, after that it's ether on the owner if he doesn't blame his AP, etc.

I remember reading one of those FAA "trials" where some guy entered opposite direction and made a low pass, some busy body caught it on his camera phone or something, FAA drags the owner of the plane in, owner says it wasn't him and you could see the pilot in the video, owner said he doesn't know who it was and isn't going to help them, owner got the rap for it.

With the FAA it seems you're guilty until proven innocent.

Like I said, I you get a fed soooo hot and bothered that he's looking so closely at your plane that your lights are being check out, you're probably going to get nailed for something ether way.
 
How many discrete parts are there on your typical GA plane? 10,000?
My guess is your IA doesn't verify condition/legality of 1% of them, I wouldn't worry about it! it is a lightbulb for Pete's sake. My $.02 worth.
 
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