Led wingtip strobe lights

AlphaMike

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AlphaMike
I’ve been replacing all my lights with LEDs as they fail. I’m all LED now except for the wingtip strobes. Wile flying in the clouds Saturday I noticed my right wing strobe was sticking on and off. The flasher is probably going bad and I would like to switch them over to LEDs. I did the tail beacon earlier this year with a Whelen Orion and I’m quite happy with it. problem is I can’t seem to find a direct replacement. Has anyone switched their wingtip flasher over to led. This is what my wing tip looks like.
Looking for some advice.743CF5F9-7A0B-47C7-8314-C5CF056A557B.jpeg
 
You'll need a complete LED nav/strobe assembly such as the Whelen Orion 650 series and an adapter like https://www.wilcoaircraftparts.com/product-p/whelenorioncessna14v.htm

or buy new wingtips to fit the LED assemblies. We bought new fiberglass wingtips for 182L when we crossed this bridge.

There are no FAA approved "drop in" LED upgrades for wingtip strobes like those, at least I haven't seen any.

The strobe power supplies need removed, wires re-terminated, equipment list and weight and balance updated, log entry, and likely a 337 with the STC to dump the old flash-tube strobes for LED ones.
 
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You'll need a complete LED nav/strobe assembly such as the Whelen Orion 650 series and an adapter like https://www.wilcoaircraftparts.com/product-p/whelenorioncessna14v.htm

or buy new wingtips to fit the LED assemblies. We bought new fiberglass wingtips for 182L when we crossed this bridge.

There are no FAA approved "drop in" LED upgrades for wingtip strobes like those, at least I haven't seen any.

The strobe power supplies need removed, wires re-terminated, equipment list and weight and balance updated, log entry, and likely a 337 with the STC to dump the old flash-tube strobes for LED ones.

We did this in our Bo this year...put in the system showcased in the June ABS magazine - shed a lot of power consumption and got way brighter strobes...definitely worthwhile.
 
My strobe went out, turned out to be an expired power unit. Same money to put LEDs on both sides as to replace the power unit on one. Easy decision.
 
My strobe went out, turned out to be an expired power unit. Same money to put LEDs on both sides as to replace the power unit on one. Easy decision.

If you don't mind me asking which LED's did you go with and did you replace the wing tips or just do the plastic mod cover? I'm 99% sure my problem is with the power unit because it sticks and then starts working again. Steingar, I believe you are in Michigan? I'm at KONZ if you don't mind sharing who you use and if you were happy with the work? Thanks!
 
If you don't mind me asking which LED's did you go with and did you replace the wing tips or just do the plastic mod cover? I'm 99% sure my problem is with the power unit because it sticks and then starts working again. Steingar, I believe you are in Michigan? I'm at KONZ if you don't mind sharing who you use and if you were happy with the work? Thanks!


He flies a Mooney so 99% sure no adapter or wingtip replacement necessary, his existing light installation is not the same as your 182.
 
If you don't mind me asking which LED's did you go with and did you replace the wing tips or just do the plastic mod cover? I'm 99% sure my problem is with the power unit because it sticks and then starts working again. Steingar, I believe you are in Michigan? I'm at KONZ if you don't mind sharing who you use and if you were happy with the work? Thanks!
@bnt83 has the right of it. It was a pretty simple swap for my Mooney. I got Whelen Orion 650 nav/strobes. Cost about an AMU. I don't know the setup for your Skylane, but I bet there's something to fit it. More Skylanes running around than Mooneys.
 
@bnt83 has the right of it. It was a pretty simple swap for my Mooney. I got Whelen Orion 650 nav/strobes. Cost about an AMU. I don't know the setup for your Skylane, but I bet there's something to fit it. More Skylanes running around than Mooneys.

Yeah I kinda figured there would be a drop in replacement, but I sure haven't found one. The tail beacon was a simple install and fit perfectly. So far no joy for the wingtips.
 
Yeah I kinda figured there would be a drop in replacement, but I sure haven't found one. The tail beacon was a simple install and fit perfectly. So far no joy for the wingtips.
Had a quick look around, and boy are you ever right. For the Mooney it was plug and play, took 2 seconds to find. I think you need an STC and new wingtips to do it on a Skylane, if my very quick search is correct. To be honest I'd fix/replace what you've got and leave it. Don't fix what ain't broke.
 
Had a quick look around, and boy are you ever right. For the Mooney it was plug and play, took 2 seconds to find. I think you need an STC and new wingtips to do it on a Skylane, if my very quick search is correct. To be honest I'd fix/replace what you've got and leave it. Don't fix what ain't broke.

I appreciate you looking for me! Yep, I think ill get a new (used) flasher and revisit this at annual. At some point I'll have to convert them over. Maybe someone is working on a drop in replacement? It's the same wingtip and flasher found in most 100 series Cessnas so I would expect someone to make one sooner or later.
 
I’ve been replacing all my lights with LEDs as they fail. I’m all LED now except for the wingtip strobes. Wile flying in the clouds Saturday I noticed my right wing strobe was sticking on and off. The flasher is probably going bad and I would like to switch them over to LEDs. I did the tail beacon earlier this year with a Whelen Orion and I’m quite happy with it. problem is I can’t seem to find a direct replacement. Has anyone switched their wingtip flasher over to led. This is what my wing tip looks like.
Looking for some advice.View attachment 90795

Why are you using strobes in IMC?
 
You'll need a complete LED nav/strobe assembly such as the Whelen Orion 650 series and an adapter like

or buy new wingtips to fit the LED assemblies. We bought new fiberglass wingtips for 182L when we crossed this bridge.

There are no FAA approved "drop in" LED upgrades for wingtip strobes like those, at least I haven't seen any.

The strobe power supplies need removed, wires re-terminated, equipment list and weight and balance updated, log entry, and likely a 337 with the STC to dump the old flash-tube strobes for LED ones.

Are any lights FAA approved?

If you could find a bulb that would flash, deleted the flasher box, removed and replaced the bulb with the LED with internal blink mode, what would be illegal?

The original bulb is just a bulb right?
 
Because I’m coool like that... we were just in and out of some clouds. Not true hard IMC.
 
Are any lights FAA approved?

If you could find a bulb that would flash, deleted the flasher box, removed and replaced the bulb with the LED with internal blink mode, what would be illegal?

The original bulb is just a bulb right?

You might want to visit 14 CFR part 23 and study approval of position lighting and anti-collision lighting installations and the associated advisory circulars...

there is no way just any blinking bulb would meet the requirements for anti-collision lights. When high intensity strobes became mandatory on newer aircraft, about the same time shoulder harnesses were standard equipment, the old incandescent flashers and rotating beacons became obsolete and unable to meet anti-collision lighting requirements .
 
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You might want to visit 14 CFR part 23 and study approval of position lighting and anti-collision lighting installations and the associated advisory circulars...

there is no way just any blinking bulb would meet the requirements for anti-collision lights. When high intensity strobes became mandatory on newer aircraft, about the same time shoulder harnesses were standard equipment, the old incandescent flashers and rotating beacons became obsolete and unable to meet anti-collision lighting requirements .

I have but I’m not seeing anything, could you copy paste?

Looking at the old PAR lights and the nav lights I have seen, I have never seen a yellow tag or STC paperwork for any of them. Was the older technology grandfathered from this requirement?
 
Was the older technology grandfathered from this requirement?
FYI: when an aircraft is certified (CAR 3 or Part 23) every part on it is considered certified. Basically the entire parts list in the IPC. Some of those parts are also considered "standard parts" and do not require the same documentation as other parts. For example, in most cases a bulb is considered a standard part and would not require a yellow tag or STC to replace that part. But if you wanted to replace the OEM bulb with a different bulb then that would fall under an aircraft alteration.
 
FYI: when an aircraft is certified (CAR 3 or Part 23) every part on it is considered certified. Basically the entire parts list in the IPC. Some of those parts are also considered "standard parts" and do not require the same documentation as other parts. For example, in most cases a bulb is considered a standard part and would not require a yellow tag or STC to replace that part. But if you wanted to replace the OEM bulb with a different bulb then that would fall under an aircraft alteration.

I understand my confusion is that if it is a PAR36 or BAY15, most manuals only require that model of bulb, wouldn't an LED or halogen having that same model be acceptable, even one with strobe feature?
 
I understand my confusion is that if it is a PAR36 or BAY15, most manuals only require that model of bulb,
Most manuals (IPCs) show specific part numbers vs model (type) of bulb. For example, a Cessna IPC shows P/N: 0523118-1 for a landing light. Further research shows a 4509 lamp/bulb (standard part) supersedes/replaces the 0523118-1. Whether the 0523118-1 or the 4509 is a "PAR 36" or a "BAY15" type bulb is immaterial when it comes to replacement parts. Most OEM IPC front matter sections describe in detail how this system works to include the use of standard parts. However, there's nothing stopping you from installing a PAR 36 whatever LED on your certified aircraft. You just need to install it as an alteration under Part 43. Just search PoA for more lively discussions on this especially concerning chinese landing light LEDs.:eek:
 
FYI: when an aircraft is certified (CAR 3 or Part 23) every part on it is considered certified. Basically the entire parts list in the IPC. Some of those parts are also considered "standard parts" and do not require the same documentation as other parts. For example, in most cases a bulb is considered a standard part and would not require a yellow tag or STC to replace that part. But if you wanted to replace the OEM bulb with a different bulb then that would fall under an aircraft alteration.

I believe aircraft lights fall under “common parts”. Under “common parts”, it looks like it will provide relief for the LED’s provided no modifications are necessary and its plug and play.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I believe aircraft lights fall under “common parts”
Perhaps you mean commercial parts? Per guidance, parts are basically classified under two groups: approved and acceptable parts. And each type within those categories have their own definition. "Common" is not one of them. Standard parts by definition, covers a number of various items from hardware to electric items that does cover bulbs. There is also replacement part guidance for certain vintage aircraft that gives specific regulatory relief on using items that don't meet all the normal specifications/requirements of the above mentioned approved/acceptable parts. There are a number of guidance documents out there that explain this subject in greater detail which unfortunately I can't seem to post a link to one of them at the moment.
 
I have but I’m not seeing anything, could you copy paste?

Looking at the old PAR lights and the nav lights I have seen, I have never seen a yellow tag or STC paperwork for any of them. Was the older technology grandfathered from this requirement?

It looks like you are trying to cram all systems into one generality, a landing light, anti-collision light, and position light are not the same nor were they governed under identical rules.

Sec. 23.1385 Position light system installation.
(a) General. Each part of each position light system must meet the applicable requirements of this section and each system as a whole must meet the requirements of Secs. 23.1387 through 23.1397.
https://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_...1F344D1F7DF924C7852566870072238A?OpenDocument

23.1387 Position light system dihedral angles.
https://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_...A6501A65D6E3053F85256687007224B1?OpenDocument

23.1389 Position light distribution and intensities.
https://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_...85DAF285FACCDB7385256687007225CF?OpenDocument

23.1393 Minimum intensities in any vertical plane [of position lights.]
https://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_...FD61E7398C749CFC8525668700722828?OpenDocument


23.1395 Maximum intensities in overlapping beams of [position lights.]
https://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_...5A9510383CD95D2F8525668700722959?OpenDocument

23.1397 Color specifications
https://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_...E342495AAE9A11C2852566870071CAD5?OpenDocument

23.1401Anticollision light system.
https://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_...460D019A348B98DF8525668700728C0B?OpenDocument

https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC_20-30B.pdf
https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC_20-74.pdf
 
It looks like you are trying to cram all systems into one generality, a landing light, anti-collision light, and position light are not the same nor were they governed under identical rules.

Sec. 23.1385 Position light system installation.
(a) General. Each part of each position light system must meet the applicable requirements of this section and each system as a whole must meet the requirements of Secs. 23.1387 through 23.1397.
https://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_...1F344D1F7DF924C7852566870072238A?OpenDocument

23.1387 Position light system dihedral angles.
https://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_...A6501A65D6E3053F85256687007224B1?OpenDocument

23.1389 Position light distribution and intensities.
https://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_...85DAF285FACCDB7385256687007225CF?OpenDocument

23.1393 Minimum intensities in any vertical plane [of position lights.]
https://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_...FD61E7398C749CFC8525668700722828?OpenDocument


23.1395 Maximum intensities in overlapping beams of [position lights.]
https://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_...5A9510383CD95D2F8525668700722959?OpenDocument

23.1397 Color specifications
https://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_...E342495AAE9A11C2852566870071CAD5?OpenDocument

23.1401Anticollision light system.
https://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_...460D019A348B98DF8525668700728C0B?OpenDocument

https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC_20-30B.pdf
https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC_20-74.pdf


Why wouldn’t a drop in LED flash bulb meet those
 
Why wouldn’t a drop in LED flash bulb meet those

Post an example.

I have never seen a drop-in LED replacement bulbs for flashtube strobes

upload_2020-10-7_9-35-48.png

Anticollision light system.

[(a) General. The airplane must have an anticollision light system that--]
(1) Consists of one or more approved anticollision lights located so that their light will not impair the flight crewmembers' vision or detract from the conspicuity of the position lights; and
(2) Meets the requirements of paragraphs (b) through (f) of this section.
(b) Field of coverage. The system must consist of enough lights to illuminate the vital areas around the airplane, considering the physical configuration and flight characteristics of the airplane. The field of coverage must extend in each direction within at least 75° above and 75° below the horizontal plane of the airplane, except that there may be solid angles of obstructed visibility totaling not more than 0.5 steradians.
(c) Flashing characteristics. The arrangement of the system, that is, the number of light sources, beam width, speed of rotation, and other characteristics, must give an effective flash frequency of not less than 40, nor more than 100, cycles per minute. The effective flash frequency is the frequency at which the airplane's complete anticollision light system is observed from a distance, and applies to each sector of light including any overlaps that exist when the system consists of more than one light source. In overlaps, flash frequencies may exceed 100, but not 180, cycles per minute.
(d) Color. Each anticollision light must be either aviation red or aviation white and must meet the applicable requirements of Sec. 23.1397.
(e) Light intensity. The minimum light intensities in any vertical plane, measured with the red filter (if used) and expressed in terms of "effective" intensities, must meet the requirements of paragraph (f) of this section. The following relation must be assumed:
Ie=
0.DA8!OpenElement&FieldElemFormat=gif
;
where:
Ie = effective intensity (candles).
I(t) = instantaneous intensity as a function of time.
t2-t1 = flash time interval (seconds).

Normally, the maximum value of effective intensity is obtained when t2 and t1 are chosen so that the effective intensity is equal to the instantaneous intensity at t2 and t1.
(f) Minimum effective intensities for anticollision lights. Each anticollision light effective intensity must equal or exceed the applicable values in the following table.

Angle above or below the horizontal plane:
Effective intensity
(candles)
0° to 5°-----------------------------------------------------
400
5° to 10°---------------------------------------------------
240
10° to 20°-------------------------------------------------
80
20° to 30°-------------------------------------------------
40
30° to 75°-------------------------------------------------
20
 
Post an example.

I have never seen a drop-in LED replacement bulbs for flashtube strobes

View attachment 90832

Anticollision light system.

[(a) General. The airplane must have an anticollision light system that--]
(1) Consists of one or more approved anticollision lights located so that their light will not impair the flight crewmembers' vision or detract from the conspicuity of the position lights; and
(2) Meets the requirements of paragraphs (b) through (f) of this section.
(b) Field of coverage. The system must consist of enough lights to illuminate the vital areas around the airplane, considering the physical configuration and flight characteristics of the airplane. The field of coverage must extend in each direction within at least 75° above and 75° below the horizontal plane of the airplane, except that there may be solid angles of obstructed visibility totaling not more than 0.5 steradians.
(c) Flashing characteristics. The arrangement of the system, that is, the number of light sources, beam width, speed of rotation, and other characteristics, must give an effective flash frequency of not less than 40, nor more than 100, cycles per minute. The effective flash frequency is the frequency at which the airplane's complete anticollision light system is observed from a distance, and applies to each sector of light including any overlaps that exist when the system consists of more than one light source. In overlaps, flash frequencies may exceed 100, but not 180, cycles per minute.
(d) Color. Each anticollision light must be either aviation red or aviation white and must meet the applicable requirements of Sec. 23.1397.
(e) Light intensity. The minimum light intensities in any vertical plane, measured with the red filter (if used) and expressed in terms of "effective" intensities, must meet the requirements of paragraph (f) of this section. The following relation must be assumed:
Ie=
0.DA8!OpenElement&FieldElemFormat=gif
;
where:
Ie = effective intensity (candles).
I(t) = instantaneous intensity as a function of time.
t2-t1 = flash time interval (seconds).

Normally, the maximum value of effective intensity is obtained when t2 and t1 are chosen so that the effective intensity is equal to the instantaneous intensity at t2 and t1.
(f) Minimum effective intensities for anticollision lights. Each anticollision light effective intensity must equal or exceed the applicable values in the following table.

Angle above or below the horizontal plane:
Effective intensity
(candles)
0° to 5°-----------------------------------------------------
400
5° to 10°---------------------------------------------------
240
10° to 20°-------------------------------------------------
80
20° to 30°-------------------------------------------------
40
30° to 75°-------------------------------------------------
20


If your navs are visabke forward for rear

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/pages/el/strobes_navstrobe/navstrobe-12193.php

The form factor you posted could easily be owner constructed.
 
If your navs are visabke forward for rear

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/pages/el/strobes_navstrobe/navstrobe-12193.php

The form factor you posted could easily be owner constructed.

Those bulbs looks like something that spew RF and screw up magnetometers, GPS or VHF nav to me. Fine for homebuilt experiments not for certified aircraft.

Once you have that together be sure and take it to the nearest FSDO and demonstrate to them how it meets the rules or how you determined it to be equivalent. "Prove that it doesn't" won't work with them either.

This may help you in your pursuit of an approval.
https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Order/8300_16.pdf
 
Those bulbs looks like something that spew RF and screw up magnetometers, GPS or VHF nav to me. Fine for homebuilt experiments not for certified aircraft.

Once you have that together be sure and take it to the nearest FSDO and demonstrate to them how it meets the rules or how you determined it to be equivalent. "Prove that it doesn't" won't work with them either.

This may help you in your pursuit of an approval.
https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Order/8300_16.pdf


I'm not sure about RF, although I've seen more glass cockpits on experimental aircraft than on certified aircraft.

Didn't know that owner-produced parts, which are also preventive maintenance, require FSDO approval.
 
Didn't know that owner-produced parts, which are also preventive maintenance, require FSDO approval.
FYI: Owner-produced parts fall under Part 21 and preventative maintenance falls under Part 43. They are not the same nor connected in any way.
 
https://uavionix.com/products/skylight/

This looks promising.. I just don't know if its for both left and right (red and green) I watched an install video of the uAvionix skyBeacon and it appears to be a pretty easy swap for my wingtips. seems to have been designed to fit perfectly. I don't need ADSB (I have ADSB in and out already) but if I could get 2 uAvionix skyLights, that might work. Its still listed as coming soon.... we will see.

Video of the skyBeacon install on a Cessna 172
 
I'm not sure about RF, although I've seen more glass cockpits on experimental aircraft than on certified aircraft.

Didn't know that owner-produced parts, which are also preventive maintenance, require FSDO approval.

Its easy to justify all kinds of things when you envision the administrator or a representative seeing it.
 
https://uavionix.com/products/skylight/

This looks promising.. I just don't know if its for both left and right (red and green) I watched an install video of the uAvionix skyBeacon and it appears to be a pretty easy swap for my wingtips. seems to have been designed to fit perfectly. I don't need ADSB (I have ADSB in and out already) but if I could get 2 uAvionix skyLights, that might work. Its still listed as coming soon.... we will see.

Video of the skyBeacon install on a Cessna 172

Those have the same footprint issues as the Whelen 650s and the competitor's Aeroleds.

Nothing fits theses style wingtips out of the box. Of course these are all typically plastic tips, plastic tips I would not modify with fiberglass.

upload_2020-10-7_12-12-0.png
 
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Here are the Stene Aviation fiberglass tips and Whelen 650s
 

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Here are the Stene Aviation fiberglass tips and Whelen 650s

That looks like the way to go.. I'll get what I have now working, and look in to this more when I get closer to annual (Feb). Thanks for all the help / advice!
 
That looks like the way to go.. I'll get what I have now working, and look in to this more when I get closer to annual (Feb). Thanks for all the help / advice!

The Wilco adapters can save you a little money but you still have to trim, paint to match and all that. If your current wingtips are cracked /patched anywhere I'd just get a new set of tips and call it a day.

If you had a STOL STC or something that replaced or modified the original tips then that might be an issue but it looks like you have the plain old cessna ones now.
 
The Wilco adapters can save you a little money but you still have to trim, paint to match and all that. If your current wingtips are cracked /patched anywhere I'd just get a new set of tips and call it a day.
My tips are in good shape but they are the plastic type. I never cared for them, I'm always expecting them to eventually crack.
 
My tips are in good shape but they are the plastic type. I never cared for them, I'm always expecting them to eventually crack.

One last word of advice, be sure to inspect any fairings you ordered as soon as you get them. I have returned a few over the years that had obvious bow/warp/sagging issues. Take them all out of the box and compare them to what you have and each other. If your mechanic is doing it all for you make sure they know you won't accept something screwed up like that.

And make sure they transfer the aluminum trips to the new tips. They basically snap on.
 
Will do! thanks again!

And

These can be wired together with a sync wire too. Dad and I are free labor so we ran all new wires and synced the wingtips and tail LEDs. Sadly the round vertical stabilizer & belly strobe/beacon lights have no sync wires circuits.. I think the Aeroleds can sync as well.

upload_2020-10-7_12-45-53.pngupload_2020-10-7_12-48-8.png
 
I’ve been replacing all my lights with LEDs as they fail. I’m all LED now except for the wingtip strobes. Wile flying in the clouds Saturday I noticed my right wing strobe was sticking on and off. The flasher is probably going bad and I would like to switch them over to LEDs. I did the tail beacon earlier this year with a Whelen Orion and I’m quite happy with it. problem is I can’t seem to find a direct replacement. Has anyone switched their wingtip flasher over to led. This is what my wing tip looks like.
Looking for some advice.View attachment 90795
I just replaced the wing tip strobes and nav lights for the cost of a new strobe power supply. I used the Orion 650s. I gained 3 pounds of useful load, dropped power requirements by 300% and it took about an hour to do it all. It was almost exactly the same price as tho old power supply alone.
 
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