LED lights at home

SCCutler said:
Interesting thing - other than commercial applications with lots of lights and extended operation times, and unusual locations where electricity is vastly more costly than the norm, LED lamps simply do not make financial sense.
Click to expand...

Spike, that hasn't been my experience - LED's do take a while to pay for themselves, but if they last anywhere near as long as they're supposed to, it'll be a net positive. Of course, the lower-usage ones will take longer and it is a front-loaded expense, but so far I've been happy with the LED's both financially and operationally.

Forcing them on us by outlawing incandescents is offensive policy.
Click to expand...

Yeah... Especially since there have been improvements in the efficiency of incandescents. However, pushing everyone toward LED's and CFL's means more money in that industry and thus probably a higher rate of R&D spending on them. Maybe they'll eventually make a CFL that doesn't suck... Or they'll make a cheap LED. The market can still correct things, even when there is some regulation, because there's still plenty of competition.

Maybe it's time for a federal light bulb tax credit? Maybe a subsidy?
Click to expand...

I know that some of the cheap CFL's I got were cheap because of some state-funded discounts... But the damn things were worthless. I'll use them 'til they're all fried, and at the current rate that'll only take another year or so. :mad:
 
Hmmm.

I have ten (10) BR30 can lights in my kitchen/breakfast room. Figure I run them 6 hours/day (probably high, but a sound blended average for the whole year).

65 watt bulbs, 6 hours/day/30 days/month= 117 KwH, which at the $0.072/KwH I now pay adds up to $8.42/ month.

LED equivalents use around 12 watts, 30.6KwH, $1.55/month.

So, I save $6.87/month.

Ten LED bulbs at Lowe's is $200 (today's price), so making up the cost of purchase is a 29-month enterprise.

Of course, the incandescents (presumably) do not last as long, rated life of 2,000 hours, so figure another $10.00/year in bulb replacements, so that advances the payback by around three months. I disregard the "expense" of LED lamp life depletion, because I expect them to last a Very Long Time.

Hmmm. Assuming I use the lights that much per day, looking better than I expected. If (as I anticipate) the cost of the LED lamps continues to drop, it'll rationalize itself nicely, and real soon now. Much faster, of course, if my electricity rates were higher.

OK, I'm shopping.
 
Spike if we went through the math like that how many of use would be pilots much less own a plane.

I have a few LEDs in places that are a pain to replace not to save energy just so I do not have to listen to the wife complain until I finally replace it :D

SCCutler said:
Hmmm.

I have ten (10) BR30 can lights in my kitchen/breakfast room. Figure I run them 6 hours/day (probably high, but a sound blended average for the whole year).

65 watt bulbs, 6 hours/day/30 days/month= 117 KwH, which at the $0.072/KwH I now pay adds up to $8.42/ month.

LED equivalents use around 12 watts, 30.6KwH, $1.55/month.

So, I save $6.87/month.

Ten LED bulbs at Lowe's is $200 (today's price), so making up the cost of purchase is a 29-month enterprise.

Of course, the incandescents (presumably) do not last as long, rated life of 2,000 hours, so figure another $10.00/year in bulb replacements, so that advances the payback by around three months. I disregard the "expense" of LED lamp life depletion, because I expect them to last a Very Long Time.

Hmmm. Assuming I use the lights that much per day, looking better than I expected. If (as I anticipate) the cost of the LED lamps continues to drop, it'll rationalize itself nicely, and real soon now. Much faster, of course, if my electricity rates were higher.

OK, I'm shopping.
Click to expand...
 
ron22 said:
Spike if we went through the math like that how many of use would be pilots much less own a plane.
Click to expand...

Boy, ain't that the truth!

But light bulbs are appliances. Airplanes are mistresses.
 
Update:

One of the 125W equivalent LED's over the kitchen island started turning itself on and off. Pulled the original package out of the cabinet that had the incandescent spare in it, swapped the spare for the flickering LED. Ceramic base of the LED is a nice beige color, so looks like heat dissipation is not up to snuff. Took the LED back to Lowe's for a no hassle exchange.

So even with a 5 year warranty, perhaps the technology is not quite there, but I would have likely changed out incandescent lights a couple of times by now, so that convenience factor is worth it to me.
 
We have two Cree reflector lights in the kitchen, one of which is about four months old, the other one is one month old. So far, so good.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Sigh...

4-pack of 60W incandescents, $1.68 ($0.42/ea). 840 lumens, 2800K temp.

1 60W-equivalent LED bulb, $14.39. 850 lumens, 13.5 watts, 3000K temp.

6-pack of 60W-eqivalent CFL's, $3.00 ($0.50/ea), 870 lumens, 13 watts, 2700K temp.

I spend about $0.13/kWh for energy. So, it takes me about an hour and 38 minutes to save a penny with the CFL/LED. So, if we go for the easy math that it's on for about 5 hours a day, that's 3 cents a day.

So, the CFL's pay for themselves twice over in a week, while the LED's would take... About 15 months.
Click to expand...

Luckily, times change! :)

I bought three different LED bulbs today, at pretty reasonable prices. All of them have good omnidirectional light distribution. All are "60W-equivalent" and 800 lumens.

The competitors for today:

1) Phillips SlimStyle. $9.97 at Home Depot, 2700K temp, 10.5W.
2. Cree. Also $9.97 and 2700K, but only 9.5W.
3. Polaroid. 3000K temp, 12W, and on sale at Menards for only $4.98.

The SlimStyle kinda looks cool - It's flat with a light-bulb shape to it. But, it was the dimmest of the three. Not too impressive. Good enough that I'll keep it, but I probably won't buy another one.

It was harder to choose between the other two. The Cree has some nice features - For example, it's coated safety glass (feels like rubber) so you can drop it and it won't shatter all over the place. It wasn't perfectly omnidirectional, and the brightest area is to the side, so not good for an overhead application, but with the safety glass it'd be good for something you moved a lot (I can't think of such a thing, though).

The Polaroid is a real winner. It's the same shape and size as a regular light bulb, was noticeably the brightest, claims a 36.5 year life (both of the others claimed 22.8, all on 3 hours/day), and backs it up with a 15-year warranty for under 5 bucks. I'm gonna go back to Menards tomorrow and buy a pile of 'em.
 
Getting there. Keep buying you guys, it keeps driving the prices down for all who wait. ;)
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Luckily, times change! :)

I bought three different LED bulbs today, at pretty reasonable prices. All of them have good omnidirectional light distribution. All are "60W-equivalent" and 800 lumens.

The competitors for today:

1) Phillips SlimStyle. $9.97 at Home Depot, 2700K temp, 10.5W.
2. Cree. Also $9.97 and 2700K, but only 9.5W.
3. Polaroid. 3000K temp, 12W, and on sale at Menards for only $4.98.

The SlimStyle kinda looks cool - It's flat with a light-bulb shape to it. But, it was the dimmest of the three. Not too impressive. Good enough that I'll keep it, but I probably won't buy another one.

It was harder to choose between the other two. The Cree has some nice features - For example, it's coated safety glass (feels like rubber) so you can drop it and it won't shatter all over the place. It wasn't perfectly omnidirectional, and the brightest area is to the side, so not good for an overhead application, but with the safety glass it'd be good for something you moved a lot (I can't think of such a thing, though).

The Polaroid is a real winner. It's the same shape and size as a regular light bulb, was noticeably the brightest, claims a 36.5 year life (both of the others claimed 22.8, all on 3 hours/day), and backs it up with a 15-year warranty for under 5 bucks. I'm gonna go back to Menards tomorrow and buy a pile of 'em.
Click to expand...

I ordered some a half dozen of the Polaroids from Menards. They are nice. What I really need is a low cost replacement for the bathroom vanity globes. I have eight of them in the master bath and four in the guest bath. Big energy suckers.
 
My entire house, except one bathroom, is all LED or CFL. Inside and out. As far as I'm concerned, the incandescent bulb is dead and buried.

I love the crisp white look of 5000k. So my whole house, inside and out, is lit at 5000k. It looks very very sharp and modern. The kitchen has the LED trim retrofits in the recessed lights. They were plug and play, easy, and look great. The dining room has LED omnidirectional in the chandelier bells on a dimmer. The basement has LED Par 46 lamps in the recessed housings. The pedistal lamps in the living room have LED omnis in them. Other lamps throughout the house have either 5000k omni LEDs or 5000k CFLs.

And it is even more impressive outside! I have some big ass 5000K LEDs on the motion sensor lights outside. Let me tell you, those things turn night into day. I even put a dimmer on a one set (non-motion) so I can actually make it look like a moon lit night in the back yard.

For the front door, back deck, and covered porch, in the fall through winter, I have white CFLs. Spring through summer, I swap them out for yellow CFL bug lights. Frankly they use so little power, I just leave them all on 24/7. The cost of leaving them on 24/7 is actually less than purchasing a bunch of timer switches or sensors.

My electric bill, to include the electric heat pump for heating and air conditioning is $125-$150 in the peak of the winter or summer. And in the spring/fall, more like $80-$90.
 
Pedals2Paddles said:
My entire house, except one bathroom, is all LED or CFL. Inside and out. As far as I'm concerned, the incandescent bulb is dead and buried.

I love the crisp white look of 5000k. So my whole house, inside and out, is lit at 5000k. It looks very very sharp and modern. The kitchen has the LED trim retrofits in the recessed lights. They were plug and play, easy, and look great. The dining room has LED omnidirectional in the chandelier bells on a dimmer. The basement has LED Par 46 lamps in the recessed housings. The pedistal lamps in the living room have LED omnis in them. Other lamps throughout the house have either 5000k omni LEDs or 5000k CFLs.

And it is even more impressive outside! I have some big ass 5000K LEDs on the motion sensor lights outside. Let me tell you, those things turn night into day. I even put a dimmer on a one set (non-motion) so I can actually make it look like a moon lit night in the back yard.

For the front door, back deck, and covered porch, in the fall through winter, I have white CFLs. Spring through summer, I swap them out for yellow CFL bug lights. Frankly they use so little power, I just leave them all on 24/7. The cost of leaving them on 24/7 is actually less than purchasing a bunch of timer switches or sensors.

My electric bill, to include the electric heat pump for heating and air conditioning is $125-$150 in the peak of the winter or summer. And in the spring/fall, more like $80-$90.
Click to expand...

I'm curious who you purchase from.
 
I replaced two outdoor floodlights on the back patio with LEDs, and am very happy with them. I got them from Lowe's (UtiliTech brand I think?) 5000K, and very bright. No more changing halogen bulbs every few months when they wear out (got really tired of that). I've had these LEDs over a year now and no problems.

As bulbs burn out on the inside, I'm going to get LEDs to replace them, too.

I always hated CFL bulbs, they never looked right to me. But I really like LED bulbs. Definitely the way to go.
 
Pedals2Paddles said:
My entire house, except one bathroom, is all LED or CFL. Inside and out. As far as I'm concerned, the incandescent bulb is dead and buried.

[snip]
The dining room has LED omnidirectional in the chandelier bells on a dimmer.
[snip]

My electric bill, to include the electric heat pump for heating and air conditioning is $125-$150 in the peak of the winter or summer. And in the spring/fall, more like $80-$90.
Click to expand...

How do the dimmer LED combo work for you? I did that in my dining room and they flicker even when fully on. I replaced both bulbs and dimmer at the same time to get a compatible set. Dimmer applications are the only incandescent I have left in my house. I haven't found a set of LED/dimmer that work well yet.

Oh, yeah. I have a couple of ceiling fan light combinations which take funky oddball bulbs and have dimmer circuits built into the fans. Those are still incandescent or halogen depending on the fan.

What was your electric bill before you switched all the bulbs out?

John
 
The dining room and basement are both on dimmers. Flawless, no flickering at all.

I did all this the first few days I moved in. But the previous owner's bills were more. I don't recall the numbers, but I'm definitely less!
 
Pedals2Paddles said:
The dining room and basement are both on dimmers. Flawless, no flickering at all.

I did all this the first few days I moved in. But the previous owner's bills were more. I don't recall the numbers, but I'm definitely less!
Click to expand...

What brand bulbs & dimmers do you have? I really want to fond a usable combination for mine but what I've got right now is just annoying.

I don't doubt less, but I wonder how much?

John
 
Just wait until the commercial LED fixtures start working their way into your NEW homes.

I visited a client of mine that just built a new house with all LED fixtures. Note I wrote FIXTURE and not LAMP. Basically the new fixtures come without the normal type A socket (at least I think that is what they call it) and instead the fixture has a circuit board of some time.

The advantage: as others have noted, the key to efficiency and life in the LED lighting world is cooling that junction. Some expose or in some way take advantage of the fixture as a heat sink (at least that is one design). From there you pick your color(s), effects (ever seen an LED look like an old candle?), and control system.

Anyway, my client doesn't even have a fluorescent anywhere in or around (yes outside) the house. Then again, he is a lighting guy...

How does 20000 hours + without changing anything. (Down side, if it breaks, you might have to replace the entire fixture.) By the way, you will need to be building new or replacing your existing fixtures to get al the new stuff..

(not available at Lowes or Home Depot.)
 
brian];1550256 said:
Just wait until the commercial LED fixtures start working their way into your NEW homes.

I visited a client of mine that just built a new house with all LED fixtures. Note I wrote FIXTURE and not LAMP. Basically the new fixtures come without the normal type A socket (at least I think that is what they call it) and instead the fixture has a circuit board of some time.

The advantage: as others have noted, the key to efficiency and life in the LED lighting world is cooling that junction. Some expose or in some way take advantage of the fixture as a heat sink (at least that is one design). From there you pick your color(s), effects (ever seen an LED look like an old candle?), and control system.

Anyway, my client doesn't even have a fluorescent anywhere in or around (yes outside) the house. Then again, he is a lighting guy...

How does 20000 hours + without changing anything. (Down side, if it breaks, you might have to replace the entire fixture.) By the way, you will need to be building new or replacing your existing fixtures to get al the new stuff..

(not available at Lowes or Home Depot.)
Click to expand...

Yes! LEDs are a much better solution than CFLs. Much more flexible and capable with some amazing effects possible. And there's is no reason at all why they can't be dimmed effectively-I believe even given the current 120V AC infrastructure in between. But my experience is the dimmers built for LED don't work well.

John
 
jsstevens said:
Yes! LEDs are a much better solution than CFLs. Much more flexible and capable with some amazing effects possible. And there's is no reason at all why they can't be dimmed effectively-I believe even given the current 120V AC infrastructure in between. But my experience is the dimmers built for LED don't work well.

John
Click to expand...

I'm not a guru on this point, but the lighting pros have a lot of this figured out (the not Lowes / Home Depot crowd.)

Put simply, my client can turn on, off or dim any single or group of lights in the entire house through his iPhone. AV equipped too. There is some Star Trek level stuff out there now - at least compared to the old wall switches in my 7 year old house...
 
brian];1550268 said:
I'm not a guru on this point, but the lighting pros have a lot of this figured out (the not Lowes / Home Depot crowd.)

Put simply, my client can turn on, off or dim any single or group of lights in the entire house through his iPhone. AV equipped too. There is some Star Trek level stuff out there now - at least compared to the old wall switches in my 7 year old house...
Click to expand...

Oh yeah! That stuff I understand. LEDs are easy to dim electronically. The only concern I have with computer controlled lighting (or door locks or cars or security systems, etc.) is if you can do it remotely, so can someone else. "Stolen" pictures anyone?

John
 
The dimmers I use are nothing special. Two were already there. I put the one in on the outside light. There is nothing special about it that I know of.
 
Pedals2Paddles said:
The dimmers I use are nothing special. Two were already there. I put the one in on the outside light. There is nothing special about it that I know of.
Click to expand...

Hmm. Thanks for the info. What kind (brand, type, heck, model number if you know) of LEDs did you use in those dimmed installations?

John
 
Some of the consumer grade dimmers are VERY noisy. I didn't believe it and kept fighting one dimmer blowing through old lights (this was years ago). Then one of my clients (another lighting guru) gave me a commercial grade one - suddenly I quit blowing lamps ...

I've had the same issue with a occupancy sensor as well. The commercial grade stuff can turn on a light if it "sees" you or if it "hears" you (well, that's almost how it works). (There is a 3rd method, but I don't remember it.)

Anyway, if you buy it at Lowes or Home Depot, you are in many cases getting the consumer grade stuff. Look up your local Electrical Distributor for some better stuff. But if you really want the job done right - you'll have to hire a pro that has access to the super cool stuff... the Distributor might have recommendations.

By the way - if you think flying is expensive :hair raise:


... but if you run a business, it all works out in the long run - about to start that process myself...
 
Last edited:
EppyGA said:
I ordered some a half dozen of the Polaroids from Menards. They are nice. What I really need is a low cost replacement for the bathroom vanity globes. I have eight of them in the master bath and four in the guest bath. Big energy suckers.
Click to expand...

My previous bathroom had a 5-globe fixture. I used three CFL globes and two LED globes.

Even though I did a mix for cost reasons, it actually had a somewhat nice side effect. The reason I had LED's at all was that I didn't like the power-on lag in the CFL's, and the CFL's would take a good 5 minutes to come up to full brightness. So, early in the morning when I didn't want a lot of light in my face all of a sudden, it'd be dim at first (with only the LED's at full brightness) and come up over several minutes.
 
I'm still waiting for LED prices to go down. CFL's still in my house. I remember buying them b/c they used less electricity and were so much cooler than incandescent bulbs. I forgot how hot regular bulbs get, but my wife and I stayed at a bed/breakfast in panama city that had them. WOW, it was hot standing under them at the bathroom sink.
 
Pedals2Paddles said:
The kitchen has the LED trim retrofits in the recessed lights. They were plug and play, easy, and look great.
Click to expand...

That's going to be my next step - I have about a thousand little recessed lights in the kitchen ceiling, and they're 35W apiece. They also use a weird two-pole connection that I haven't seen before and don't even know how to get out so I can replace them! Are yours like that?
 
flyingcheesehead said:
My previous bathroom had a 5-globe fixture. I used three CFL globes and two LED globes.



Even though I did a mix for cost reasons, it actually had a somewhat nice side effect. The reason I had LED's at all was that I didn't like the power-on lag in the CFL's, and the CFL's would take a good 5 minutes to come up to full brightness. So, early in the morning when I didn't want a lot of light in my face all of a sudden, it'd be dim at first (with only the LED's at full brightness) and come up over several minutes.
Click to expand...


I'm imagining big Kent growling and swatting at the air in the morning... Hulk no like bright light! Hulk smash!!!!
 
Went to HD Monday to pick up a a couple of things and as we walked I caught sight of the display of twin pack 60W equivalent LED bulbs by Phillips for $4.97
 
My wife is an energy sciences teacher. She asked me to phase out all the inca descents in the TX house and replace with LEDs. In typical Texas fashion the house has tall ceilings and plenty of recessed can lights. LED floods aren't cheap but I did the chore. We were very surprised to see the reduction in our electricity bill, even with an air conditioned house. The drop in our monthly bill was significant. Like half. Back in Alaska a friend is a rep for a LED commercial lighting manufacturer. He ran numbers on my shop and offices and showed me how I could convert my 8' fluorescent tubes to LED and the cost, about that of a really nice new pickup truck, would be recouped in 2 years from savings on my electric bill. A few months later and his projections are right on track. I'm a fan of LED lighting in structures because it pays you back and then some. That's a pirep, not a make-believe story.
 
Stewartb said:
My wife is an energy sciences teacher. She asked me to phase out all the inca descents in the TX house and replace with LEDs. In typical Texas fashion the house has tall ceilings and plenty of recessed can lights. LED floods aren't cheap but I did the chore. We were very surprised to see the reduction in our electricity bill, even with an air conditioned house. The drop in our monthly bill was significant. Like half. Back in Alaska a friend is a rep for a LED commercial lighting manufacturer. He ran numbers on my shop and offices and showed me how I could convert my 8' fluorescent tubes to LED and the cost, about that of a really nice new pickup truck, would be recouped in 2 years from savings on my electric bill. A few months later and his projections are right on track. I'm a fan of LED lighting in structures because it pays you back and then some. That's a pirep, not a make-believe story.
Click to expand...

I've replaced nearly all of my regular bulbs now. I would like to see the price come down on the special bulbs, like the globe types used in my ceiling fan fixtures and my bathroom fixtures.
 
It may be just about time for me to make the leap - I have several rooms with a bunch of BR30 floods, so I think the kitchen (where the lights are, by far, used the most) will get LED-ized.

Plus, summer, no more heat-makers.
 
EppyGA said:
Went to HD Monday to pick up a a couple of things and as we walked I caught sight of the display of twin pack 60W equivalent LED bulbs by Phillips for $4.97
Click to expand...

I'm glad you brought this up, I bought 20 packs, 40 bulbs, I figure that will handle my light bulb needs for a long time!!:yes:
 
the 60w bulbs at costco they had 3/10 are great, good color, but they hum.
I got some dimmer ones, 40w I think, the the color is terrible.
I have the flood lights in my kitchen and they've been great.
 
Stewartb said:
My wife is an energy sciences teacher. She asked me to phase out all the inca descents in the TX house and replace with LEDs. In typical Texas fashion the house has tall ceilings and plenty of recessed can lights. LED floods aren't cheap but I did the chore. We were very surprised to see the reduction in our electricity bill, even with an air conditioned house. The drop in our monthly bill was significant. Like half. Back in Alaska a friend is a rep for a LED commercial lighting manufacturer. He ran numbers on my shop and offices and showed me how I could convert my 8' fluorescent tubes to LED and the cost, about that of a really nice new pickup truck, would be recouped in 2 years from savings on my electric bill. A few months later and his projections are right on track. I'm a fan of LED lighting in structures because it pays you back and then some. That's a pirep, not a make-believe story.
Click to expand...

The energy savings in my house from the wattage alone wouldn't make a huge difference unless it was factored over a decent length of time. To me, the big advantage was the reduction in heat vs. incandescent lights. The typical ceiling fan has 4 bulbs and puts off a ton of heat that the AC had to work against.
 
Just to be devil's advocate doesn't that also mean less supplemental heat from the lights in the winter? I mean it's still worth it for the lower cost of lighting and longevity.... I just wonder if that will alter some peoples heating bills.
 
cowman said:
Just to be devil's advocate doesn't that also mean less supplemental heat from the lights in the winter? I mean it's still worth it for the lower cost of lighting and longevity.... I just wonder if that will alter some peoples heating bills.
Click to expand...


That's when you bring the charcoal grill inside, so you can cook the food and heat the house at the same time. THAT'S JUST A JOKE!! (Except for the idiots in the Carolinas who seemed to do that whenever the weather dropped below a frightening 30 degrees F. Every cold snap in that area
some Mensa candidates seemed to try such Stupid Grilling Tricks.)
 
Beware of the assumption that LEDs don't get hot. Some do. I found that out the hard way. Trial by fire, so to speak.
 
Stewartb said:
Beware of the assumption that LEDs don't get hot. Some do. I found that out the hard way. Trial by fire, so to speak.
Click to expand...

oh wow. hope it didn't burn anything important. My comment was based on touching the bulbs with my hand. An incandescent will scald you whereas an LED may only feel warm. My wife and I recently went to a hotel in Destin that still had the old style light bulbs. I forgot how much heat they gave off until I was standing at the bathroom sink.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top