Least amount of fuel on landing?

[cwyckham]

I always dipped the 152's tanks before taking off when I was flying Cessnas. However, that doesn't help if you have a mechanical problem, fuel leak, or loose cap and are going through fuel faster than you think you should be.

I love the "fuel gauges" on the Grumman AA1C. They're just sight glasses on the inside wall of the cockpit. You're looking at the actual fuel. Nothing to go wrong, no callibration required, 100% accurate every time. It's the perfect system.

 

[ScottM]

My dual X/C ended up being an impromptu trip to BVO for the Biplane expo last May; full when we left, and not much more than 24 minutes' worth when we landed. I was a little chagrined.

Hey! Neil Armstrong landed the Eagle with just a little under 15 seconds. Good enough for him good enough for me

 

[CJones]

Lowest? About 3 gal (5 minute reserve) while seeding rice with the Ag Cat, but the strip we were working off was right there on the property. Rice is heavy...

Normal flying though, I don't go below FAA standard reserves and typically I won't go that low if it looks like I'll have to make a fuel stop anyway.

I was waiting for Henning to chime in with an Ag Cat or Air Tractor story. Those guys come in on fumes a lot of the time. That's fine-and-dandy if you know the area really well, but the only times I've heard of cropdusters going down b/c of fuel starvation is when someone moved the airport while they are out spraying.

Personally, I've landed with a little less than 30mins in the tanks in the RV - BUT that is a plane that I know very well and I know the fuel flow/gage instrumentation is VERY accurate (I check it EVERY time I put fuel in the tanks). I usually start predicting my fuel status at arrival as soon as I am in level cruise with stabilized fuel burn ('Time to Empty' and 'Fuel to Dest' are great options on the fuel gage). If I'm IFR, I don't even PRETEND to land with less than FAA mins - I definitely go on the conservative side with that, but if I'm just out punching holes in the sky, I'll go with 1/2 hr at landing sometimes.

 

[jesse]

I was waiting for Henning to chime in with an Ag Cat or Air Tractor story. Those guys come in on fumes a lot of the time. That's fine-and-dandy if you know the area really well, but the only times I've heard of cropdusters going down b/c of fuel starvation is when someone moved the airport while they are out spraying.

I know my dad / grandpa ran out of fuel several times while spraying. Every extra gallon of fuel you take is one less gallon of spray and money lost.

 

[jhempel]

So far I have never left out fuel to carry luggage. Lighten the suitcase, not the gas tank! The 172 holds 5 hours by the book, but 4 hours of fuel in "real life". On trips we always land every 2 hours or so. I always top off the tanks before taking off.

I have one of those glass dip sticks, but don't really trust it too much. The only time I know for certain how much is in there is when it is full. The gauges are fairly close. I think they read a little less that what is in the tank. I consider that a good thing.

The lowest we have run it was down to 1 hour of fuel left.

 

[Dwight B. Van Zanen]

I always dipped the 152's tanks before taking off when I was flying Cessnas. However, that doesn't help if you have a mechanical problem, fuel leak, or loose cap and are going through fuel faster than you think you should be.

I love the "fuel gauges" on the Grumman AA1C. They're just sight glasses on the inside wall of the cockpit. You're looking at the actual fuel. Nothing to go wrong, no callibration required, 100% accurate every time. It's the perfect system.

Just on the news. In WA we just had a Cessna go down north of Bellingham on a flight from Sitka, Alaska. I think I have the information right. Apparently had long range tanks and should have had enough, but with a headwind or failing to lean properly, or just the need for speed and you can burn through it faster than the plan. The pilot was not hurt bad, but he will likely have some explaining to do.

 

[jesse]

So far I have never left out fuel to carry luggage. Lighten the suitcase, not the gas tank! The 172 holds 5 hours by the book, but 4 hours of fuel in "real life". On trips we always land every 2 hours or so. I always top off the tanks before taking off.

I will typically run a 172 for 3 hours before landing. I have never really had any surprises. 40 gallon useful. Figure 10 gallons every hour and you've got 4 hours before it quits. I've never seen a 172 even burn close to 10 but it's the number I use to be very conservative since I'm flying unknown rentals.

That said--You can never have too much fuel and 2 hours isn't a bad time to land either.

Just noticed:

POST NUMBER 2000

 

[N7702Y]

Landed a 421 with 40 minutes of fuel versus my personal minimum of an hour. Hideous headwinds, but the real problem was that we were number 4 for the approach. Lesson learned that day was never assume that you get to fly the approach immediately on arrival at the airport.

My Piper fuel gauges are not very accurate. I have three tanks on each wing, and manage fuel by either filling tanks to the top or not putting anything into them at all. Then I enter the fuel on board into the JPI 760 with fuel flow. It "talks" to the GPS and provides a continuous update, based on current ground speed and the flight plan in the GPS, on anticipated reserve on arrival. Since it doesn't take into account fuel burn reductions during descent it is pretty conservative.

If the expected reserve on landing goes below 20 gallons (an hour at high cruise) the 760 alarms I start looking for a gas stop.

Jay

 

[Bill]

Landed a 421 with 40 minutes of fuel versus my personal minimum of an hour. Hideous headwinds, but the real problem was that we were number 4 for the approach. Lesson learned that day was never assume that you get to fly the approach immediately on arrival at the airport.

Just curious, was the forcast for 123 weather at your destination?

 

[AirBaker]

I plead the fifth.

Ditto

6 gallons 3 per tank

At least the 172 has a 'both' selector. I'd rather have all 6 in one tank otherwise.

 

[GaryO]

I love the "fuel gauges" on the Grumman AA1C. They're just sight glasses on the inside wall of the cockpit. You're looking at the actual fuel. Nothing to go wrong, no callibration required, 100% accurate every time. It's the perfect system.

Don't count on that! They can be very wrong. And yes, I'm talking about the Grumman AA1x gauges. I'm not sure why, maybe a partially clogged vent tube, but I do know that they can be wrong!

 

[Anthony]

Don't count on that! They can be very wrong. And yes, I'm talking about the Grumman AA1x gauges. I'm not sure why, maybe a partially clogged vent tube, but I do know that they can be wrong!

Plus "the actual fuel" is right there in the cockpit with you. Not that its not far away on other planes.

I landed with 9 gallons left in the Tiger once. That's just under and hour's flying time and it still made me nervous, especially with the JPI EDM 700 blinking a low fuel warning at me as I have it set for 10 gallons.

 

[jhempel]

I will typically run a 172 for 3 hours before landing. I have never really had any surprises. 40 gallon useful. Figure 10 gallons every hour and you've got 4 hours before it quits. I've never seen a 172 even burn close to 10 but it's the number I use to be very conservative since I'm flying unknown rentals.

My C172N actually burns 9.5 gallons per hour when we're running hard on a trip. It burns around 8 when we're just flying around the patch throttled back.

Like you, I do all my flight planning on 10 gallons per hour. So I never come up short. Fuel starvation is a VERY preventable accident.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

My C172N actually burns 9.5 gallons per hour when we're running hard on a trip. It burns around 8 when we're just flying around the patch throttled back.

Wow, that's a lot for a 172N, unless you have a 180hp STC. Even then... Might want to have the mechanic check out your carb next time the bird's in the shop. Might save you some money in the long run.

 

[imQ]

Me personally, about 6 gallons in a grumman traveler, but I was back and forth between 2 airports about 5 miles apart. When I worked at the airport, I put 2 gallons less than the usable in a nearly new 210. when I told the owner, his face went pale and I thought he was going to faint.

 

[gismo]

Landed a 421 with 40 minutes of fuel versus my personal minimum of an hour. Hideous headwinds, but the real problem was that we were number 4 for the approach. Lesson learned that day was never assume that you get to fly the approach immediately on arrival at the airport.

JOOC, did the wx require an alternate???

My Piper fuel gauges are not very accurate. I have three tanks on each wing, and manage fuel by either filling tanks to the top or not putting anything into them at all. Then I enter the fuel on board into the JPI 760 with fuel flow. It "talks" to the GPS and provides a continuous update, based on current ground speed and the flight plan in the GPS, on anticipated reserve on arrival. Since it doesn't take into account fuel burn reductions during descent it is pretty conservative.

If the expected reserve on landing goes below 20 gallons (an hour at high cruise) the 760 alarms I start looking for a gas stop.

That's pretty much what I do as well. If the wx is decent I'll plan a flight to end with a little over an hour of fuel and if the GPS/Shadin calculated amount on landing goes below an hour's worth at normal cruise (none of that 45 minutes at economy cruise stuff for me either) I start planning for an earlier fuel stop. AFaIK I can't get an alarm on either the GPS or the Shadin based on the landing fuel, only on fuel remaining. On the rare occasions where the landing fuel calculation dipped below my limit well before the planned landing, I monitored that quantity carefully while extending my range by slowing down and was able to make the original stop without dipping into the reserve, but I would have landed sooner if that didn't work out. You also have to factor in anticipated changes in wind, especially if you have reason to believe that your GS will drop later in the flight.

You also need to ignore the significant decrease in landing fuel when climbing and I'm wondering how your 760 handles that (I have a 760 but the FF is in a separate Shadin unit).

 

[Ghery]

My C172N actually burns 9.5 gallons per hour when we're running hard on a trip. It burns around 8 when we're just flying around the patch throttled back.

Like you, I do all my flight planning on 10 gallons per hour. So I never come up short. Fuel starvation is a VERY preventable accident.

Our club's C-172N with the Penn Yan 180 hp conversion is rated at 8.4 gal/hr at 65% power (my usual cruise setting). In reality, it comes pretty close to that.

Least amount of gas remaining? A few years ago in the Arrow. 5 gal on one side and about 10 on the other. That's still about an hour and a half of gas. 24 per side usable.

 

[gismo]

The only time I came close to running out of fuel was on a trip in a 172 when I was pretty green. I wasn't night current and wanted to get home before dark and therefore pressed on even though the gauges were close to empty and my fuel burn calculations showed I'd just barely have 30 minutes of fuel in the tanks when I landed. Turned out the landing fuel was more like 15-20 minutes, which in a Skyhawk isn't very many gallons.

BTW I grew up around boats and there were many times that I ran out of gas just before getting home in my boat. I lived a block from a big lake on a canal and usually made it into the canal leaving only the last 1000 ft for paddling. I don't think I ever had to be towed in except for once when the engine died completely for electrical reasons. I had to adjust my fuel reserve limits when I started flying and stick pretty hard to the hour minimum reserve concept these days.

 

[N7702Y]

JOOC, did the wx require an alternate???



That's pretty much what I do as well. If the wx is decent I'll plan a flight to end with a little over an hour of fuel and if the GPS/Shadin calculated amount on landing goes below an hour's worth at normal cruise (none of that 45 minutes at economy cruise stuff for me either) I start planning for an earlier fuel stop. AFaIK I can't get an alarm on either the GPS or the Shadin based on the landing fuel, only on fuel remaining. On the rare occasions where the landing fuel calculation dipped below my limit well before the planned landing, I monitored that quantity carefully while extending my range by slowing down and was able to make the original stop without dipping into the reserve, but I would have landed sooner if that didn't work out. You also have to factor in anticipated changes in wind, especially if you have reason to believe that your GS will drop later in the flight.

You also need to ignore the significant decrease in landing fuel when climbing and I'm wondering how your 760 handles that (I have a 760 but the FF is in a separate Shadin unit).

On the 421 trip an alternate was not required (the weather was a California marine layer).

On my 760, I use the reserve fuel amount shown in cruise. I due frequently get the flashing digits for low fuel during climbout, but I ignore that. If it is a normal landing, then I actually land with more fuel due to the decreased flow during the descent. If there is a chance that I'll have to go around and go to an alternate, then I allow additional fuel for the climbout.

The JPI 760 alarms can be set by the user to what ever you want, and it will alarm based on both time to dry tanks and an absolute quantity on board.

Jay