Learning to use the VASI

Morne said:
While I agree, the DPE I did my PPL checkride with was quite vocal that such a practice is less than optimum. Didn't fail me for it, but he certainly expressed his displeasure. During debrief he hammered on "stabilized approach" and said that if you're still playing with flaps then your approach is not stable. He insisted that if you have to adjust anything on final it should be throttle only; if for no other reason than your hand should be on it anyway in case of a go around.

Just like everything else, from glide slopes to using VASIs, opinions vary.:dunno:
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That's an interesting take. He may have a point not to wait too too long, but I have always taught that even in daylight to wait for the last notch until landing is assured. As in the aircraft is going make it for sure even with the full flaps. Just because the last notch usually adds a ton of drag and steepens the approach quite a bit for the same airspeed. Which at night when fying the glideslope landing often isn't assured until about just over the treeline. If your at 1.3Vso or whatever the recommended speed for your plane the last notch shouldn't destabilize your approach all that much. I am not one of these guys that always wants to be in glide range at all times, but I certainly don't believe in adding, especially the last notch of, flaps until the throttles back and your still to high/fast.

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Fearless Tower said:
And as you pointed out jets are the exact reason that the 'stabilized' approach was created.
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I should mention that both the instructor who taught me to open up my pattern/shallow my final and the DPE who harped on "stabilized approaches" fly 777s for the airlines.:idea:
 
Morne said:
I should mention that both the instructor who taught me to open up my pattern/shallow my final and the DPE who harped on "stabilized approaches" fly 777s for the airlines.:idea:
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That explains much... flying it into the ground at 50% throttle is a totally different beast.

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dell30rb said:
Maybe my planning is just that bad. :confused:
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Probably better than my planning. I have yet to fly a cross-country where everything goes right as planned. Maybe that's just how it is. :dunno:
 
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If you're landing a C15x/17x series at a normal airport with the typical 3000' paved surface, why can't you have the approach established from the moment you complete the base to final turn all the way to the level-off point?

This can be done power to idle, BTW.

Yanking power to idle 75' AGL, dropping 30 degrees of flaps, slipping, etc are all acceptable techniques as long as you can also demonstrate mastery of the airplane's glide path, which is what "stabilized approach" is there to test.

I'm not talking power setting here. I'm merely arguing that if you need to add 20 degree flaps 50' AGL it means you didn't have it together at 400' AGL.
 
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jesse said:
I really don't understand why an instructor wouldn't teach the student how they work. In fact, it's their duty to do so. It offers some pretty immense safety benefits, especially at night. It's not like you can block the student from seeing the thing.

The student will learn to land without it when you take them to an airport that doesn't have one (which I always do).
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I think most instructors teach all of these things but because it is like a fire hose to the student, the student does not absorb these lessons. In my case, it was a power on stall in a turn. A friend "never" heard of progressive taxi. Still another "never" learned how to transition a class BRAVO.
Whether the lessons are over 2 weeks, 2 months, or 10 years, they still come on full blast. Sometimes, unless these are practiced (like landings, slow flight, and stalls) or talked about, they never get through the fog created by the fire hose. What is retained is what is necessary to pass the written.
The other thing is, the CFI is focused on getting the student passed the practical. Since you can't go over every point on every lesson, the stu needs to to remember these things. The earlier in the training you bring up these, the quicker they are lost in the fog. Much the same as being in school, the reason for homework is to introduce a new subject or to reenforce it. I had one CFI complain his stus didn't show up prepared.
Maybe it's HIS approach to training not the stu.
 
My training 20 years ago was where they had a VASI, but I didn't pay any attention to it. Then when I started again at the same airport early this year, I paid close attention to it. Then I moved to a hoakie airport with no VASI or much of anything. We're lucky to have a windsock.

After soloing AGAIN and then doing lots of stop & go's there, I went on a night cross country to an airport with a VASI. When I noticed the VASI I had to stop and think for a second what Red over White meant. I kind of ignored it for the moment and put it on the numbers albeit I flared slightly high.

I think that in a higher performance plane the VASI is probably pretty useful, but in my little taildragger, I'm just as well off ignoring it. I usually manage to put it on the numbers without one, so it seems to be potentially something that could mess me up.
 
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