Learning to fly in the USA

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gared008

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gared007
Hello,

My name is Graeme, I'm a 20 year old Astrophysics student, living in Glasgow in (a currently rainy) Scotland.

I've been considering for about a year now whether to pursue my training in aviation in the UK or to move to the USA and pursue it there. The USA appears, generally, to be cheaper on the whole and, obviously, has better weather in some areas allowing for a smoother training schedule (rather than having to relearn something after 2 weeks of rain :rolleyes:).

I am intending on travelling to the USA in the Summer to do some work experience and also to gain some first hand knowledge from people who fly in the USA and to check the reputation of the flying schools (a website tells me nothing).

I'm basically looking for any and all the advice you can give me regards whether learning to fly in the USA is a sensible option for me and what my best course of action is. Obviously, while I'm over there I would need to find a way of meeting up with aviators to ask them in personand get their advice.

Regards my experience so far;
I was originally intending to join the Royal Air Force. I was in the Air Training Corps (Air Cadets) for 6 years where I gained solo experience in gliding and around 7/8 hours of flying on a Grob Tutor. I then joined the University Air Squadron at Glasgow University where I furthered my flying training in a military environment but did not progess to flying solo. I decided to leave after one year of service as an Officer Cadet, as the RAF is severely lacking in jobs for pilots. I passed the aptitude tests required for flying with the RAF but decided I didn't wish to dedicate more years of my life to a job that was already incredibly difficult to get into and felt I had learned all I could from my 7 years experience affiliated with the RAF.
After much deliberation I settled on pursuing a career in General Aviation. I am not motivated by the money nor type of flying with large airliners. Ultimately I would love to do something like bushflying, aerobatic/sports flying or cinematography however I'm not naive and understand this is years and years down the line.

Money is obviously a factor, but I would happily hold down as many jobs as necessary in order to pay for my flying training, accommodation and general living costs in the USA.

I know I can work hard enough and, providing nothing happened with me physically or mentally, I have the ambition and suitable background to enable me to become a pilot. I just need advice on the civillian side of flying as I have little or no experience in it and if indeed the USA is the right way forward for me.

Thanks for reading.
 
Just a couple fo suggestions,

If you are a physics student and have the aptitude to pursue a technical degree such as this, then you might want to consider pursuing a more conventional (and lucrative) career that will allow you to fly as a hobby.

many of us started out on a flying career only to decide that we either 1) quickly became bored driving a flying bus, and 2) wanted to be able to afford some other extravagent things such as having children or owning a home.

But if you are dead set on flying for hire and want to return th the UK to so it, then yes the US is a popular destination but you might want to give some consideration to South Africa as well. Equally good weather as Florida or Arizona, and SA teaching is more closely aligned with JAA standards compared to the US.
 
As I said, I'm not motivated by money, my degree is purely out of interest and as a backup should something go majorly wrong aviation wise. I'm not bothered about returning to the UK, I'll pick up and go anywhere I can get work. I think the USA also holds the appeal in living/working there for a while. I have looked into SA and would love to work there at some point in later life, but I think due to my age/experience the USA offers a more appealing lifestyle to a younger person like myself.
 
The USA is certainly a great place for what you want. The big issues to be hurdled will be visas and work permits until you achieve permanent resident or citizen status. You'll also have to go through the Alien Flight Student screening program to be permitted to train in this country.

Most of the big flight training operations like Pan Am, Flight Safety, etc., are familiar with these processes, and can probably give you more comprehensive information and assistance than anyone on this board. You might want to do some research on the major training operators, and start contacting them for information.
 
There are plenty of abbreviated programs and such, at least one operated by a member of this site. That said one is left with a bit of curiosity. Our (North American) view of Europe is that GA is more or less sidelined with fees and high fuel costs. Is there enough left in which to pursue a career?
 
Besides USA Visa issues, you want to consider the convertibility of any FAA certificates you earn back to those acceptable in the UK and/or Europe, or in the alternative investigate those schools in the USA that can grant JAA licenses.

As I'm sure you are aware, pprune.com has many threads on this subject.

In any case, you'll be real impressed with the much higher degree for freedom GA enjoys in the USA compared to the UK or Europe.

And we'll be glad to welcome you here!
 
Note well: the bulk of the flight academies which aggressively market to out-of-country flight students are in Lorida and Arizona; but if you look elsewhere, you can do as well on the weather, and likely have a less-costly training experience.

For example, there are several excellent choices in north Texas (Dallas area).
 
Last summer the flight school I went to had 4 Icelandic students there. They were thrilled with the prices! Not that Ohio is known for good weather, but it is better in the summer.
http://www.flyskypark.com/learning-fly/
 
Go find one of those grass strips in the midwest that charge 60 bucks an hour. You'll save money and probably learn more. The academies are overpriced and joyless.
 
There are a bunch of single CFI with a single rental plane at smaller airports that will get the PPI at far less expense than a school. But when you get ready for complex aircraft, twins, etc., you many have to transfer to a school and more or less start over.

The small time operator can teach you to fly very quickly (if its a place where the weather cooperates), because you can fly a couple of hours a day. Get in the 50-60 hours for a PPI in a month or so.

I gotta tell you, from the people I talk to who are airline and ATP pilots, they don't even think of it as flying. Many of them own a smaller plane on the side and go flying om it on their days off. The suggestion in an earlier post to make the big bucks in some other field that you enjoy, and then save the flying as a hobby, makes a lot of sense.
 
ClimbnSink said:
Go find one of those grass strips in the midwest that charge 60 bucks an hour. You'll save money and probably learn more. The academies are overpriced and joyless.
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Couldn't agree more, but the small guys are unlikely to be set up to sponsor Graeme for an M-1 visa. If he can persuade one of them to go through the necessary bureaucracy to do that (or if he forgot to mention that he's a US citizen), then great.
 
As a British citizen who holds a FAA PPL I can relate to why you are considering the USA for your flight training, having decided I had reached the point in my life where I could finally chase my long time goal of becoming a pilot. Unlike you, my reason was purely for social flying.
I never considered training in the UK, because my aim of achieving my PPL was to enjoy flying while at our vacation home in Florida which we visit around 4 times a year, usually for 6 weeks per trip. (Being semi retired allows this flexibility)
So my decision was made, and having visited various flight schools and undertaking discovery flights I decided on one which would be my training school. They specialised in accelerated training schedule which did attract a great many overseas students, I opted for the 3 week zero to PPL accelerated programme, however this proved a bridge to far for me, after two weeks I had achieved Solo in the pattern but I was mentally and physically drained but I'm 64 yrs old so age was a handicap, most of the younger guys on the course did reach and pass their check rides within the 3 week schedule and in this respect you at 20 have age on your side.
Anyway, I pulled out and converted to a hourly training as time wasn't an issue to get my ticket. I spread the training out over a few months and finally passed my check ride last October.
But regardless of the way I did it, I would wholeheartedly support flight training in the USA,
I didn't go to a JAA accredited school because flying in The UK is not something I intend doing, but in your case I would say it is essential to get the FAA JAA ticket.

On the subject of moving to the USA, this is where it becomes a lot more complex, don't even think of simply arriving and getting a job, you will be on the next plane home !
Only options are obtain a job with a Company who is prepared to sponsor you in the US,but they will have to demonstrate to US immigration why they need you for the job and not a US citizen, or apply for a students visa, but that will allow you entry for study purposes only and not for working.

Obtaining a visa to enter for work purposes is extremely difficult, like the UK the US has a very high unemployment rate right now,and first priority must be to look after their own citizens before immigrants (unlike our country...but that's another debate !)

I don't wish to put a damper on your ambitions, but if you cant comply with any of the above work requirements to live and work in the US, I would think the best way to do your flight training is wait until you have the funds to sign up with a flight school and go then visit for a few weeks on an accelerated course.
You do need to jump through a few hoops to get your TSA non US citizen flight training approval, but it isn't too daunting, I had all mine in place in around a week.

Good Luck,with achieving your aviation ambitions.
 
alland said:
As a British citizen who holds a FAA PPL I can relate to why you are considering the USA for your flight training, having decided I had reached the point in my life where I could finally chase my long time goal of becoming a pilot. Unlike you, my reason was purely for social flying.
I never considered training in the UK, because my aim of achieving my PPL was to enjoy flying while at our vacation home in Florida which we visit around 4 times a year, usually for 6 weeks per trip. (Being semi retired allows this flexibility)
So my decision was made, and having visited various flight schools and undertaking discovery flights I decided on one which would be my training school. They specialised in accelerated training schedule which did attract a great many overseas students, I opted for the 3 week zero to PPL accelerated programme, however this proved a bridge to far for me, after two weeks I had achieved Solo in the pattern but I was mentally and physically drained but I'm 64 yrs old so age was a handicap, most of the younger guys on the course did reach and pass their check rides within the 3 week schedule and in this respect you at 20 have age on your side.
Anyway, I pulled out and converted to a hourly training as time wasn't an issue to get my ticket. I spread the training out over a few months and finally passed my check ride last October.
But regardless of the way I did it, I would wholeheartedly support flight training in the USA,
I didn't go to a JAA accredited school because flying in The UK is not something I intend doing, but in your case I would say it is essential to get the FAA JAA ticket.

On the subject of moving to the USA, this is where it becomes a lot more complex, don't even think of simply arriving and getting a job, you will be on the next plane home !
Only options are obtain a job with a Company who is prepared to sponsor you in the US,but they will have to demonstrate to US immigration why they need you for the job and not a US citizen, or apply for a students visa, but that will allow you entry for study purposes only and not for working.

Obtaining a visa to enter for work purposes is extremely difficult, like the UK the US has a very high unemployment rate right now,and first priority must be to look after their own citizens before immigrants (unlike our country...but that's another debate !)

I don't wish to put a damper on your ambitions, but if you cant comply with any of the above work requirements to live and work in the US, I would think the best way to do your flight training is wait until you have the funds to sign up with a flight school and go then visit for a few weeks on an accelerated course.
You do need to jump through a few hoops to get your TSA non US citizen flight training approval, but it isn't too daunting, I had all mine in place in around a week.

Good Luck,with achieving your aviation ambitions.
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I wouldn't say very high. Keep in mind some other countries. Here are the top 5 countries and their unemployment rate.

1. Nauru (90%)
2. Vanuatu (79%)
3. Turkmenistan (70%)
4. Zimbabwe (70%)
5. Mozambique (60%)

United States is actually very low on the list.
 
Thank you so much for all your advice.

I must stress, flying in the UK for myself isn't an issue. Yes, one day, I would love to do it, especially something like VIP transport and the like, however, I'd imagine that by the time I was experienced enough to do anything like that, acquiring the appropriate licensing/retraining won't be as much of an issue as I would have had a career/experience/earning a living by that point. I've been told by others that some schools in America hire/train you to be an instructor allowing you to hour-build and earn money, though I have no idea how true this is.

Very good points are being brought up regarding visas. I think I have placed too much hope on the UK/US relationships and thought "Oh it'll be easy for a UK citizen to work with our friendly neighbouts across the pond". I will need to look further into this and can hopefully get more information while I go over in the summer (it'll be a J1 student visa in case anyone was wondering, just to experience life in the US and make a bit of money).

Now there seems to be somewhat of a split between learning at a school or a grass airstrip in the middle of nowhere. Both sound appealing. I would love to go to a little grass strip and fly but I worry that the career opportunities would be few and far between as opposed to a company.

I think I apply the same mindset with regards to funding my startup.
If you don't ask, you don't get. That's what I've learnt however I will stress it now I am prepared for no funding from any family, friend or company and I appreciate how utterly difficult that will be. I have heard and know people who have written to other people asking for either a grant or a loan (or promise to work for them contractually once they get their license should the benefactor require a pilot for some reason). I would assume that if I were to choose the 'little grass airstrip' it would be a similar case of placing my hope in someone local at the airfield to hire me and put me to some use.

My main concern about staying in the UK is I worry that any full/part time job I get to fund my flying will end up becoming my actual job. I'm not a desk person. I'm not an ordinary person willing to accept "whatever job comes up". I am so driven to fly that I will work in a refuse dump 14 hours a day if I require it. I can only hope that any potential aviation employer would see this or indeed a benefactor that would consider funding part of my training and getting me a job. I know it sounds incredibly naive and as a student I don't live in the real world to an extent, but, for my age, I've had plenty of experience with people who do and my general career idea hasn't been, to them, all that crazy.

I hope to keep this thread alive, gain your valuable advice and take it on board. Obviously there are lots of important decisions to be made. For clarity, I have 1 year left after May 2013 (providing I don't fail my 3rd year exams!) before I am free to pursue my career to give you an idea of timescales.

Please don't hesitate to ask any further questions about anything you feel relevant, or even irrelevant.

Thank you so much, again.
 
I am based at KFXE at Fort Lauderdale, Florida. There are about 5 flight schools and half of the students are foreigners. I have been living here for 35 years and found out that weather is VFR only 360 days a year. Consider Florida for your training, plenty of destinations to fly to.

José
 
On political thing to consider. Our President seems determined to open a 'pathway to citizenship' that will let 'undocumented'/'illegal' resident aliens jump the immigration que and quickly gain legal status.

I would never advise anyone to move here from another country and work illegally, but the fact is that this may be the best time in decades to do that.
 
JimNtexas said:
On political thing to consider. Our President seems determined to open a 'pathway to citizenship' that will let 'undocumented'/'illegal' resident aliens jump the immigration que and quickly gain legal status.

I would never advise anyone to move here from another country and work illegally, but the fact is that this may be the best time in decades to do that.
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The above will only affect those that are already illegal in the country. They will still have to go to the end of the line like all the legal inmigrants to gain additional rights and citizenship.

José
 
If he paddles a stolen canoe over from Canada whose to say how long he has been here?
Any glider clubs near you at home? Might be a cheap way to get in the air now, glider flying can only do you good skill wise.
 
Graeme,

It's been awhile so it might have changed but my understanding is that US student visa's can get only an on campus job offered by the University or College they attend. IF you have no loans this could be good for you.
http://www.immihelp.com/visas/studentvisa/working-parttime.html

Second alternative, this is a big commitment but when I was in the Army I had a buddy who was a UK citizen and got residency status with his enlistment. This opens up the possibility of entering the Army's Warrant Officer Training program for a helicopter pilot. Once a pilot you can cross train to fixed wing while still in the Army. I think it is a 6 year commitment for the training. This is counter intuitive but the Army has more boats than the navy and more a/c than the air force so if you really want to pilot a ship or a/c the Army is the best odds. For that matter you might talk to a UK Army recruiter to see if the same is true there.

Finally, if you are coming here for a few months to check stuff out, you can always fall in love and get married. UK/US allow duel residency. My best friend is from UK.

Climate: consider it when you choose where to visit. NE and NW are similar climate to what you are used to if not a bit colder in the Winters. S Calif; Arizona; Texas and Florida are going to be like southern Spain/Italy with temps of 100-110 d F in July/Aug. Florida is a bit more temperate it can get 100 d F but usually is 80's-90's with high humidity so it can be just as miserable. But very nice winter/spring/fall thus all the European snow birds owning Florida homes.
 
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The school I went to in Sacramento called Skywalk had a british fellow come in on a visa and train there among many from other countries. The valley here in CA has some of the best flying weather year round and the woman that runs the school is on her game, she can probably answer any questions in detail pretty easily.
 
I was officially enlisted with the Royal Air Force while an Officer Cadet but as I've said I know longer wish to pursue a career in military aviation and as weird as it sounds, I'd be loyal only to the RAF, not the British Army (though my friend has gone off to join them as an Apache pilot - just completed Sandhurst).

I'm aware a student visa (J1) is only up to four months and for temporary work - I mentioned it as I will need one for THIS summer to work in the USA - looking into working in a zoo (I really want to work with sloths :P)

That last link, regards Skywalk in Sacramento appears immensely useful and they mention the fact they are officially qualified to give me a M-1 student Visa. I've fired off an email to them basically copying and pasting the info from hear and look forward to hearing from them.

Thanks again!
 
gared008 said:
I was officially enlisted with the Royal Air Force while an Officer Cadet but as I've said I know longer wish to pursue a career in military aviation and as weird as it sounds, I'd be loyal only to the RAF, not the British Army (though my friend has gone off to join them as an Apache pilot - just completed Sandhurst).

I'm aware a student visa (J1) is only up to four months and for temporary work - I mentioned it as I will need one for THIS summer to work in the USA - looking into working in a zoo (I really want to work with sloths :P)

That last link, regards Skywalk in Sacramento appears immensely useful and they mention the fact they are officially qualified to give me a M-1 student Visa. I've fired off an email to them basically copying and pasting the info from hear and look forward to hearing from them.

Thanks again!
Click to expand...

Oh cool! The woman that runs the nitty gritty details is Mari, She's the best!
 
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