Learning on the Fly

[jcepiano]

I arrived at the airport today hoping to do some pattern work but with some gusting crosswinds peaking around 18-20, I decided to air on the side of caution and not fly. I'll be the first to admit I haven't had that much experience training for gusty conditions and didn't want to test my limits after not flying for three weeks.

I thought it would be interesting to have a discussion on personal minimums or limitations chosen through bad experiences. I'm mostly curious about those experiences after a checkride that went beyond what they had a chance to train for under the guidance of an instructor and what they learned.

 

[jordane93]

Personal limit with pax is 20kts. I took a friend up when it was 30G35ish right down the runway in FRG and ACY. He ended up throwing up and I had a to pay a cleanout fee.

 

[jcepiano]

Personal limit with pax is 20kts. I took a friend up when it was 30G35ish right down the runway in FRG and ACY. He ended up throwing up and I had a to pay a cleanout fee.

Ouch. Do you keep a barf bag now? haha

 

[frfly172]

When your a new pilot ,you can't fly enough. After you build some hours ,you realize some days it's better to wait. Flying is supposed to be fun,unless you do it for a living.

 

[jordane93]

Ouch. Do you keep a barf bag now? haha

Yep haha. Plus whenever I take up people now I think about them. I geneerally try to take them up when it is less than 10kts because I want them to enjoy the ride

 

[ClimbnSink]

Better to fly in that by choice, cause someday you will fly in that by chance.

 

[jcepiano]

Better to fly in that by choice, cause someday you will fly in that by chance.

True! Although I prefer to explore a new limit of my training with a CFI there to pick up the pieces before they have to pick up the pieces of the plane

 

[Henning]

I arrived at the airport today hoping to do some pattern work but with some gusting crosswinds peaking around 18-20, I decided to air on the side of caution and not fly. I'll be the first to admit I haven't had that much experience training for gusty conditions and didn't want to test my limits after not flying for three weeks.

I thought it would be interesting to have a discussion on personal minimums or limitations chosen through bad experiences. I'm mostly curious about those experiences after a checkride that went beyond what they had a chance to train for under the guidance of an instructor and what they learned.

I don't believe in a "personal minimums" thing, it leads to a bad decision making process. That said, on any given flight, there may be something involved that may cause me to call it off, or a combination of things that individually wouldn't matter but combined can be critical. I like evaluating every situation on its own merits, when you start making lists, then you start going through the list rather than looking at the big picture and some details that may not be on the list.

 

[FastEddieB]

I don't believe in a "personal minimums" thing, it leads to a bad decision making process.

Disagree.

Dirty Harry said: "A man's got to know his limitations."

A rusty instrument pilot could raise his or her ILS minimums to 500' and I think that would be a rational choice.

A conservative pilot might decide that minimum one hour fuel reserve gives more options than 30 minutes. I think that's rational as well.

A cautious pilot might set minimum runway length to the book figure times some small factor.

And I don't think many instructors would send their students out on a legal 1,000' ceiling/3 mile visibility cross country.

Somewhere Cirrus publishes a chart on this topic. I'll see if I can find it.

 

[FastEddieB]

Not the one I had in mind, but here's one:

 

[yakdriver]

Would have been a perfect time to call your instructor and see if he could come out and fly that day. You never know what the wind will do so it pays to practice in adverse conditions. A couple of weeks ago it was calm when I drove into the airport and I asked a friend if he wanted to go fly the N3N. When I taxied out wind was around 6kts. I had to warm up a bit and as I sat in the run up area the wind started to pick up a bit. On take off it was about a 10-12kt crosswind and I though perfect I'll do a few touch and goes when we get back. We flew for about 20 min and when I called the tower the wind was now 220 @21 G35 about a 40 degree crosswind. It was a little wild on short final but landing was uneventful. Taxi back was the toughest part with the gusty crosswind. full swiveling tailwheel and brakes that tend to overheat quickly. Point is that conditions changed from calm to 35kts in less than an hour. So fly in as much wind as you can when you are learning to fly and always work on your crosswind capabilities throughout your flying career. Don

 

[Jaybird180]

FEB- That chart won't work because we're all Elite Aviators

 

[AuntPeggy]

I don't believe in a "personal minimums" thing, it leads to a bad decision making process. That said, on any given flight, there may be something involved that may cause me to call it off, or a combination of things that individually wouldn't matter but combined can be critical. I like evaluating every situation on its own merits, when you start making lists, then you start going through the list rather than looking at the big picture and some details that may not be on the list.

Thanks for that common sense comment. Makes better sense to me, but it is hard to put into something that the FAA can distribute. I suppose that a checklist is better than nothing.

 

[Henning]

Thanks for that common sense comment. Makes better sense to me, but it is hard to put into something that the FAA can distribute. I suppose that a checklist is better than nothing.

A checklist isn't a bad thing as long as the limits posted are real limits not arbitrary. Then you can consider current conditions, both operational and personal, as they exist and make your determinations on how close you care to come to those limits for that particular flight.

 

[flyingron]

Everybody has should limits that come from training and subsequent experience. It's not the same for everybody.

I learned in Colorado. Pretty much the weather there was almost always the follwoing:

Isolated thurderstorms but CAVU outside the storm.
Gusty winds

The T-Storms you pretty much could see and avoid. 20G33 was good student solo weather for us.

My wife learned in the DC area. Summer in DC is: 3-5 miles in haze, but calm winds.

For a long time, if it was hazy she flew, and if it was gusty I flew.

 

[Stewartb]

Pilot fitness weighs heavier than weather for me. Going out in the wind and scud requires sharpness that I just don't possess on some days. Tired, stressed, stuffed up, they all figure in.

 

[Henning]

Pilot fitness weighs heavier than weather for me. Going out in the wind and scud requires sharpness that I just don't possess on some days. Tired, stressed, stuffed up, they all figure in.

Yep, fatigue is what caught up to me.

 

[jcepiano]

This is an awesome discussion. Thanks, everyone! I figured this could be really educational for us low-time pilots that are in in that green category for the cirrus chart posted above.