Lear down TEB

Ryanb said:
From the looks of the photo, the undercarriage appears to be visible along with the right hand tip tank. Looks like left wing down to me.
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That looks like top of fuselage to me. The engines are above the wing...


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gsengle said:
That looks like top of fuselage to me. The engines are above the wing...
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CJPilot said:
In the photo you are viewing the top of the aircraft, Right wing down
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I can see what you're saying now. Hard for me to tell being that the photo is a bit blurry. Looks like you're right.
 
Ryanb said:
From the looks of the photo, the undercarriage appears to be visible along with the right hand tip tank. Looks like left wing down to me.
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Right wing down, your viewing the top of the aircraft in the still pic, however it didn't come in at 90 degrees, it was almost inverted
 
CJPilot said:
Right wing down, your viewing the top of the aircraft in the still pic, however it didn't come in at 90 degrees, it was almost inverted
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Gotcha. I can see that a bit better now.
 
CJPilot said:
Right wing down, your viewing the top of the aircraft in the still pic, however it didn't come in at 90 degrees, it was almost inverted
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Btw, I see you're new to the forum, welcome! Hope to see you hang around with us.
 
Thankyou very much!! Hopefully next time I can post things not so sad. This one hit home :-( It's nice to met all of you.
 
My condolences to the families. I only wish the close the airport crowd would have the courtesy to do the same. They are already coming out of the weeds.
 
drotto said:
My condolences to the families. I only wish the close the airport crowd would have the courtesy to do the same. They are already coming out of the weeds.
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I'm normally not in favor of airport closings, but I don't know too many professional pilots who would shed any tears if they closed TEB.
 
Ryanb said:
From the looks of the photo, the undercarriage appears to be visible along with the right hand tip tank. Looks like left wing down to me.
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Looks right wing down. The top of the fuselage was almost all red, underside was white. Wings were white top and bottom.
Picture appears to be showing the top of the plane with the left wing high.
 
GRG55 said:
Looks right wing down. The top of the fuselage was almost all red, underside was white. Wings were white top and bottom.
Picture appears to be showing the top of the plane with the left wing high.
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I see it now, thanks. Hard for me to correctly make it out being blurry.
 
Must have been terrifying but at least it was quick and painless. RIP
 
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Fearless Tower said:
I'm normally not in favor of airport closings, but I don't know too many professional pilots who would shed any tears if they closed TEB.
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I'm not a professional pilot but I'd miss it for sure if Teb went away. I fly in and out at least a dozen times a year.
 
Ryanb said:
From the looks of the photo, the undercarriage appears to be visible along with the right hand tip tank. Looks like left wing down to me.
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you can see all of both engines... if left turn wing would block view of part of the engines (I'm pretty sure)
 
FlySince9 said:
you can see all of both engines... if left turn wing would block view of part of the engines (I'm pretty sure)
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The second picture shows it is the right wing that hit first. The bottom of the plane is all tan, while the top of the fuselage is red and the wings are tan on the top. If it was the bottom you would not see a significant amount of red.
 
drotto said:
The second picture shows it is the right wing that hit first. The bottom of the plane is all tan, while the top of the fuselage is red and the wings are tan on the top. If it was the bottom you would not see a significant amount of red.
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So you're agreeing with me that plane is in a right turn at impact?
 
Fearless Tower said:
I'm normally not in favor of airport closings, but I don't know too many professional pilots who would shed any tears if they closed TEB.
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What's the grief with TEB? Bad airport, or traffic there balls up operations at the airports in the area?
 
luvflyin said:
What's the grief with TEB? Bad airport, or traffic there balls up operations at the airports in the area?
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It's almost always busy because of the proximity to Manhattan. As others have mentioned, their procedures are somewhat complex because of the airspace and surrounding airports. The ramps are usually congested. I have flown Lear 35s and other airplanes into KTEB numerous times. RIP.
 
FlySince9 said:
So you're agreeing with me that plane is in a right turn at impact?
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It certainly impacted right wing low, that's for sure. But an approach to Rwy 06 circling to Rwy 01 would typically result in a right turn followed by a left turn to line up with the runway. Given the location of the crash (approximate extended centerline of Rwy 01), it certainly could've been a left turn/roll that went past inverted.
 
Let's not get all wrapped up in the circle here....it is easy fly to the airport and then make a left turn to enter a downwind to 19 or 24......however I just looked it up and that approach isn't showing on airnav anymore....CLIFFO at 2 and then something else at 1500.....it was almost 8 years ago. I never circled in low visibility conditions, circled bunch of times when bumpy and windy as all get out and I was never chastised for extending downwind to give room for a reasonably stable approach.
 
luvflyin said:
I'm having trouble getting that to work. Where they making left or right traffic?
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It was an initial right turn from the 06 final followed by a left turn from the circle south of the airport attempting to line up with the 01 final.
 
Getonit said:
Let's not get all wrapped up in the circle here....it is easy fly to the airport and then make a left turn to enter a downwind to 19 or 24......however I just looked it up and that approach isn't showing on airnav anymore....CLIFFO at 2 and then something else at 1500.....it was almost 8 years ago. I never circled in low visibility conditions, circled bunch of times when bumpy and windy as all get out and I was never chastised for extending downwind to give room for a reasonably stable approach.
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What you describe is NOT the procedure in use.

Aircraft are instructed to fly the Rwy 6 Localizer to TORBY and then start the circle to runway 01. You are basically entering a left base from TORBY.
 
Fearless Tower said:
What you describe is NOT the procedure in use.

Aircraft are instructed to fly the Rwy 6 Localizer to TORBY and then start the circle to runway 01. You are basically entering a left base from TORBY.
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This is true.
I've been into TEB (in my corporate days) literally thousands of times. I've done every circle there known to man kind.

There is nothing overly difficult about any of them.
The worst was when they used to use the VOR-A overhead to land south... and a bit of practice that was simple.
 
If you stall in a high wing loading left turn the right wing will drop. These laminar flow wings on the old Lears are 100% unforgiving. If you are inexperienced or don't have a good understanding of aerodynamics then the Lear series are not for you. A stall in a base to final turn as tight as the 06 to 01 circle will almost definitely result in an incipient and unrecoverable spin that will probably invert the aircraft.
It is not a difficult approach but you need to be alert to the changes that TEB throw at you and they expect you to be on your game. Inexperienced pilots should not use it in my opinion without some prior training. But that is just my opinion.
 
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A stall in the turn on a laminar flow wing like the lear 35 with high g load will definitely cause an unrecoverable incipient spin in the opposite direction to the turn. The tip tanks would add to the momentum of the spin also if fuel in them. If you are inexperienced or have a limited understanding of aerodynamics then the Lear series is not for you especially the older ones 25/35. They would have hit the ground before they knew what was happening. Sad event but we don't know what happened yet so not going to add anything else.
 
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Oh, posted it twice. Oh well makes the point I guess....
 
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