Leah Learns to Glide
- Thread starter canoecox
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tonycondon
Gastons CRO (Chief Dinner Reservation Officer)
Re: Leah Learn's to Glide
won't take much convincing.
Here's a nice newspaper article that was in the AOPA blast today: http://www.rgj.com/article/20100723/NEWS/7230387/1321/Soaring-women-finish-seminar-in-Reno
won't take much convincing.
Here's a nice newspaper article that was in the AOPA blast today: http://www.rgj.com/article/20100723/NEWS/7230387/1321/Soaring-women-finish-seminar-in-Reno
jesse
Touchdown! Greaser!
Re: Leah Learn's to Glide
Aerodynamically, once established, there is absolutely no difference between a forward slip and a side slip.
In a forward slip you generally throw in a bunch of rudder and opposite aileron. As a result your heading will change but your ground-track will remain the same. If you started with a 360 heading you will likely end up with something more like a 030 heading while maintaining a 360 ground-track.
In a side-slip you generally put a wing down and then add opposite rudder to maintain your current heading. If you started with a 360 heading you'll likely end up with something like a 360 heading with a 030 ground track.
The only difference between a forward slip and a side slip is the heading/ground track you end up with versus what you started with. A forward slip is useful to dump some altitude while maintaining your ground track. A side slip is used to maintain alignment and ground-track in a crosswind while landing.
If you add a bunch of rudder and then add opposite aileron you'll generally end up with a forward slip.
If you put a wing down and then just add enough rudder to keep the nose on the same heading you'll end up with a side slip.
Think about a cross-wind landing. If the cross-wind wasn't there and you maintained the same inputs you would simply drift off runway course while maintaining heading alignment. That's a side slip. Now think about dumping altitude because you're too high while maintaining a track towards the runway. That's the forward slip.
We'd all be better off if they simply called both a 'slip' as that's all they are.
canoecox said:
Aerodynamically, once established, there is absolutely no difference between a forward slip and a side slip.
In a forward slip you generally throw in a bunch of rudder and opposite aileron. As a result your heading will change but your ground-track will remain the same. If you started with a 360 heading you will likely end up with something more like a 030 heading while maintaining a 360 ground-track.
In a side-slip you generally put a wing down and then add opposite rudder to maintain your current heading. If you started with a 360 heading you'll likely end up with something like a 360 heading with a 030 ground track.
The only difference between a forward slip and a side slip is the heading/ground track you end up with versus what you started with. A forward slip is useful to dump some altitude while maintaining your ground track. A side slip is used to maintain alignment and ground-track in a crosswind while landing.
If you add a bunch of rudder and then add opposite aileron you'll generally end up with a forward slip.
If you put a wing down and then just add enough rudder to keep the nose on the same heading you'll end up with a side slip.
Think about a cross-wind landing. If the cross-wind wasn't there and you maintained the same inputs you would simply drift off runway course while maintaining heading alignment. That's a side slip. Now think about dumping altitude because you're too high while maintaining a track towards the runway. That's the forward slip.
We'd all be better off if they simply called both a 'slip' as that's all they are.
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tonycondon
Gastons CRO (Chief Dinner Reservation Officer)
Re: Leah Learn's to Glide
I usually refer to a forward slip as a "slip" and a side slip as "crosswind correction" which is probably why leah had to deal with a little vocabulary confusion when flying with new instructors.
I usually refer to a forward slip as a "slip" and a side slip as "crosswind correction" which is probably why leah had to deal with a little vocabulary confusion when flying with new instructors.
jesse
Touchdown! Greaser!
Re: Leah Learn's to Glide
Which makes more sense. The whole forward/side slip stuff seems to cause nothing but confusion.
B2Soar
Pre-takeoff checklist
Re: Leah Learn's to Glide
Quote: In a side-slip you generally put a wing down and then add opposite rudder to maintain your current heading. If you started with a 360 heading you'll likely end up with something like a 360 heading with a 030 ground track.
Jesse,
Not sure what your side slips look like?
I always use a side slip for x-wind landings. I set it up on early final. If landing on 36 my heading and ground track remain 360 degrees to touchdown unless there is not enough rudder to do so. In those cases I will do a forward slip to about 30 feet agl if necessary. If there is not enough rudder at about 30 feet agl to hold both heading and track on 360 degrees I go find another runway option. Often at 50 feet agl and below the surface x-winds are lower and the side slip requirement becomes less to hold heading and track.
Rick
Quote: In a side-slip you generally put a wing down and then add opposite rudder to maintain your current heading. If you started with a 360 heading you'll likely end up with something like a 360 heading with a 030 ground track.
Jesse,
Not sure what your side slips look like?
I always use a side slip for x-wind landings. I set it up on early final. If landing on 36 my heading and ground track remain 360 degrees to touchdown unless there is not enough rudder to do so. In those cases I will do a forward slip to about 30 feet agl if necessary. If there is not enough rudder at about 30 feet agl to hold both heading and track on 360 degrees I go find another runway option. Often at 50 feet agl and below the surface x-winds are lower and the side slip requirement becomes less to hold heading and track.Rick
jesse
Touchdown! Greaser!
Re: Leah Learn's to Glide
You remain on your original ground track because you only apply enough side-slip to fight the cross-wind. If there was no crosswind and you did the same control inputs you wouldn't remain on your original ground-track. Sometimes it is fun to just side-slip back and forth to lose altitude on final instead of just one constant forward slip.Quote: In a side-slip you generally put a wing down and then add opposite rudder to maintain your current heading. If you started with a 360 heading you'll likely end up with something like a 360 heading with a 030 ground track.
Jesse,
Not sure what your side slips look like?
Rick
B2Soar
Pre-takeoff checklist
Re: Leah Learn's to Glide
Jesse,
I like to stay lined up on centerline because eventually, by constantly doing so, it gives you a pretty good feeling for the x-wind you will be dealing with at touchdown.
Leah, sorry to hijack your thread, that was a great report! Glad you had a good time there. Would you describe the differences you noticed between flying the ASK-21 and the DG-1000? I have some time in an ASK-21 and loved it. Never been close to a DG-1000.
Rick
Jesse,
I like to stay lined up on centerline because eventually, by constantly doing so, it gives you a pretty good feeling for the x-wind you will be dealing with at touchdown.
Leah, sorry to hijack your thread, that was a great report! Glad you had a good time there. Would you describe the differences you noticed between flying the ASK-21 and the DG-1000? I have some time in an ASK-21 and loved it. Never been close to a DG-1000.
Rick
jesse
Touchdown! Greaser!
Re: Leah Learn's to Glide
To an extend - depending on terrain and winds - it's quite often that the crosswind at 1000 ft or even 100ft will be nothing like the crosswind at 10 ft. I wasn't saying that one should use any technique during landing. I was simply trying to explain the difference between the side-slip and forward-slip terms.
Everskyward
Experimenter
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Everskyward
Re: Leah Learn's to Glide
Sounds like a great experience, Leah!
Sounds like a great experience, Leah!
Lawreston
En-Route
Re: Leah Learn's to Glide
Fascinating reports, Leah; and the forward/side slip dialogue within the thread was informative. Perhaps Jesse, when not too busy, could "slip" the apostrophe out of the thread title.
)
HR
Fascinating reports, Leah; and the forward/side slip dialogue within the thread was informative. Perhaps Jesse, when not too busy, could "slip" the apostrophe out of the thread title.
)HR
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tonycondon
Gastons CRO (Chief Dinner Reservation Officer)
Re: Leah Learn's to Glide
Here's a video from the WSPA seminar
Here's a video from the WSPA seminar
canoecox
Filing Flight Plan
Re: Leah Learn's to Glide
9/18
Hello all, I apologize for the gap in the flight reports. Yes, I have still been out flying however life has distracted me from keeping up with these posts as I should. I have completed the minimum requirement of 10 solo flights and 2 hours of solo flight time. I still am finding it hard to motivate myself after work to study for/take the written exam. I hope to do better in the future
Yesterday, Saturday, Tony and I had a great flight in our club's Grob Twin Astir. With the exception of the time that I spent out at Reno with the WSPA seminar I really have not had much experience soaring. The soaring club at Sunflower has a "Weekend Warrior" contest 1x each month. This month's task was to fly the "KSA" trangle. Points were awarded for the fastest lap around the triangle, along with bonus points for the additional number of laps flown with a max of 2. Tony thought that this would be a good opportunity for me to get some experience besides just the sled ride training flights that I have been flying lately......he also was inspired by the 100 extra bonus points that he would get to add to his score for flying a multi-seat glider with a pilot who has not yet earned their silver badge :wink2:.
A bit of background of the course. The KSA triangle was set up so that students would get to experience cross-country flying of a sorts while still being fairly near to the gliderport. I believe that the furthest turn-point of the triangle was 6 nautical miles, with a total distance travelled of 50 km. As the wind was from the South the course required us to cross to the East side of the field to start the course. From there we had to fly to a nearby VOR, from the VOR we followed the main road to a little town called Haven. From Haven we jumped accross to an even smaller town named Castleton. From Castleton we had to make it back to Sunflower. Tony and I also had an ulterior goal for the flight. If we were able to make it back to the VOR we would be able to set multiple (11) multi-seat state records for Kansas. While we would just be establishing the records rather than beating existing records, the prospect was still rather exciting.
We were not able to take off until around 2pm as I was hosting an event with the rowing club that I am active with in Wichita. I must say though that maybe I should do that more often as Tony had everything all set by the time that I got there. All I had to do was put on my parachute, get in the glider and off we went! This was my first time flying a Grob sailplane. The first difference that I noticed was that I was sitting reclined in the cockpit which changed my point of view on the towplane during the tow. I kept feeling that I was flying too low but Tony kept telling me that I was doing a great job. I did have some trouble coordinating the turns as the glider is pretty heavy in roll and required more rudder than I was used too. I also had a hard time breaking the habit of unconciously pulling back on the stick as I was entering a turn, especially when circling for thermals.
The conditions right off the start were great! Tony got us directed towards the VOR and then let me fly and scout out thermals. It was nice to get some coaching on both how to hunt for thermals but also on how to change my circle to try and center the core of the thermal. I had a hard time keeping up while turning (the glider does not have a compass in it) with what direction was what. I was pretty sure I knew which way was up and which down but Tony kept telling me to shallow out to the south east or to tighten up to the Northwest....and I had a hard time keeping up/remembering where "North" was. Partly this was because I am not as familiar with the area as I am of the landmarks and layouts as seen from the air as I am at the Wichita gliderport. Tony tells me though that I will get better with practice.
I do think that I am getting better with feeling the thermals by "the seat of my pants" rather than wait for the delayed response of the variometer to tell me that I am in rising or sinking air. Tony and I switched off and took turns during the flight. I was kind of nice to lay back and enjoy the great view from the wide front canopy. I especially liked watching the clouds form from little wisps and merge into one another.
As we progressed through the triangle the lift was getting harder to find and what lift we did find was no longer the 600 knots up but 200 and then finally 50. The thermals that day were also very small in radius and thus were a bit tricky to center to find the core (strong part) of the thermal. I also found it hard to kick my 45 knot best glide speed habit from the 2-33 trainer glider I usually fly for the 60 knot best glide speed of the Grob. I really had to fight myself to keep the nose pushed down to hold atleast 70 knots in the areas of sink between thermals as it did not seem "right" to be going so fast. We made it back to Sunflower without much difficulty but it did take a bit of effort to gain the altitude needed for us to be able to make it back to the VOR to finish our run at the State records. From there we were still hoping to make 1 more lap of the triangle but we decided to fly in towards the gliderport on our way to the Haven turn point. By the time that we neared Sunflower we tried a few turns to gain altitude but we ended up having to land. I even remembered that I was flying a tail wheel glider (the 2-33 I usually fly has a nose skid to help it stop) and thus should not put my nose down upon landing. I also remembered/figured out how to put the wheels down This was the first time that I have flown anything that I have had to be the one to raise/lower the gear!
One of the best educational portions of this flight though was the prep that Tony had me do for it. He had me calculate the minimum altitude that we would need to have in order to make it back to the gliderport from our farthest point on the triangle which happened to be the 6 nm @ the Haven turnpoint. He made me calculate it using only 1/2 of the published glide ratio for the Grob and an arrival altitude of 1,000 ft above the field for extra conservatism. Overall it was just nice to do some actual soaring for a change rather than just training. A friend passed on a quote the other day that really hit the mark, "Soaring is the reward for the trouble of learning to glide". And boy is that the truth!
LC
9/18
Hello all, I apologize for the gap in the flight reports. Yes, I have still been out flying however life has distracted me from keeping up with these posts as I should. I have completed the minimum requirement of 10 solo flights and 2 hours of solo flight time. I still am finding it hard to motivate myself after work to study for/take the written exam. I hope to do better in the future
Yesterday, Saturday, Tony and I had a great flight in our club's Grob Twin Astir. With the exception of the time that I spent out at Reno with the WSPA seminar I really have not had much experience soaring. The soaring club at Sunflower has a "Weekend Warrior" contest 1x each month. This month's task was to fly the "KSA" trangle. Points were awarded for the fastest lap around the triangle, along with bonus points for the additional number of laps flown with a max of 2. Tony thought that this would be a good opportunity for me to get some experience besides just the sled ride training flights that I have been flying lately......he also was inspired by the 100 extra bonus points that he would get to add to his score for flying a multi-seat glider with a pilot who has not yet earned their silver badge :wink2:.
A bit of background of the course. The KSA triangle was set up so that students would get to experience cross-country flying of a sorts while still being fairly near to the gliderport. I believe that the furthest turn-point of the triangle was 6 nautical miles, with a total distance travelled of 50 km. As the wind was from the South the course required us to cross to the East side of the field to start the course. From there we had to fly to a nearby VOR, from the VOR we followed the main road to a little town called Haven. From Haven we jumped accross to an even smaller town named Castleton. From Castleton we had to make it back to Sunflower. Tony and I also had an ulterior goal for the flight. If we were able to make it back to the VOR we would be able to set multiple (11) multi-seat state records for Kansas. While we would just be establishing the records rather than beating existing records, the prospect was still rather exciting.
We were not able to take off until around 2pm as I was hosting an event with the rowing club that I am active with in Wichita. I must say though that maybe I should do that more often as Tony had everything all set by the time that I got there. All I had to do was put on my parachute, get in the glider and off we went! This was my first time flying a Grob sailplane. The first difference that I noticed was that I was sitting reclined in the cockpit which changed my point of view on the towplane during the tow. I kept feeling that I was flying too low but Tony kept telling me that I was doing a great job. I did have some trouble coordinating the turns as the glider is pretty heavy in roll and required more rudder than I was used too. I also had a hard time breaking the habit of unconciously pulling back on the stick as I was entering a turn, especially when circling for thermals.
The conditions right off the start were great! Tony got us directed towards the VOR and then let me fly and scout out thermals. It was nice to get some coaching on both how to hunt for thermals but also on how to change my circle to try and center the core of the thermal. I had a hard time keeping up while turning (the glider does not have a compass in it) with what direction was what. I was pretty sure I knew which way was up and which down but Tony kept telling me to shallow out to the south east or to tighten up to the Northwest....and I had a hard time keeping up/remembering where "North" was. Partly this was because I am not as familiar with the area as I am of the landmarks and layouts as seen from the air as I am at the Wichita gliderport. Tony tells me though that I will get better with practice.
I do think that I am getting better with feeling the thermals by "the seat of my pants" rather than wait for the delayed response of the variometer to tell me that I am in rising or sinking air. Tony and I switched off and took turns during the flight. I was kind of nice to lay back and enjoy the great view from the wide front canopy. I especially liked watching the clouds form from little wisps and merge into one another.
As we progressed through the triangle the lift was getting harder to find and what lift we did find was no longer the 600 knots up but 200 and then finally 50. The thermals that day were also very small in radius and thus were a bit tricky to center to find the core (strong part) of the thermal. I also found it hard to kick my 45 knot best glide speed habit from the 2-33 trainer glider I usually fly for the 60 knot best glide speed of the Grob. I really had to fight myself to keep the nose pushed down to hold atleast 70 knots in the areas of sink between thermals as it did not seem "right" to be going so fast. We made it back to Sunflower without much difficulty but it did take a bit of effort to gain the altitude needed for us to be able to make it back to the VOR to finish our run at the State records. From there we were still hoping to make 1 more lap of the triangle but we decided to fly in towards the gliderport on our way to the Haven turn point. By the time that we neared Sunflower we tried a few turns to gain altitude but we ended up having to land. I even remembered that I was flying a tail wheel glider (the 2-33 I usually fly has a nose skid to help it stop) and thus should not put my nose down upon landing. I also remembered/figured out how to put the wheels down
This was the first time that I have flown anything that I have had to be the one to raise/lower the gear!One of the best educational portions of this flight though was the prep that Tony had me do for it. He had me calculate the minimum altitude that we would need to have in order to make it back to the gliderport from our farthest point on the triangle which happened to be the 6 nm @ the Haven turnpoint. He made me calculate it using only 1/2 of the published glide ratio for the Grob and an arrival altitude of 1,000 ft above the field for extra conservatism. Overall it was just nice to do some actual soaring for a change rather than just training. A friend passed on a quote the other day that really hit the mark, "Soaring is the reward for the trouble of learning to glide". And boy is that the truth!
LC
tonycondon
Gastons CRO (Chief Dinner Reservation Officer)
Re: Leah Learn's to Glide
that would be 600, 200, and 50 feet per minute, not knots. it was good but not THAT good.
Here is our flight:
http://www.onlinecontest.org/olc-2.0/gliding/flightinfo.html?flightId=669963229
I had a lot of fun and hope to be able to do more XC instruction in the Grob next year.
that would be 600, 200, and 50 feet per minute, not knots. it was good but not THAT good.
Here is our flight:
http://www.onlinecontest.org/olc-2.0/gliding/flightinfo.html?flightId=669963229
I had a lot of fun and hope to be able to do more XC instruction in the Grob next year.
tonycondon
Gastons CRO (Chief Dinner Reservation Officer)
Re: Leah Learn's to Glide
Her written is scheduled for October 28. Supposed to rain this weekend so hopefully she'll get some high quality study time in. Probably ready for her checkride once the written is done.
Her written is scheduled for October 28. Supposed to rain this weekend so hopefully she'll get some high quality study time in. Probably ready for her checkride once the written is done.
tonycondon
Gastons CRO (Chief Dinner Reservation Officer)
Re: Leah Learn's to Glide
She passed her written. 88%
She passed her written. 88%
tonycondon
Gastons CRO (Chief Dinner Reservation Officer)
Re: Leah Learn's to Glide
oh yea, she's heard that many times.
I think she only had one practice test that was better than 88. Of course the practice tests have a ton of ADF questions and flight planning questions and she got none of those on the real thing.
oh yea, she's heard that many times.
I think she only had one practice test that was better than 88. Of course the practice tests have a ton of ADF questions and flight planning questions and she got none of those on the real thing.
Matthew
Touchdown! Greaser!
Re: Leah Learn's to Glide
I forgot about needing the written if you didn't already have a PP. The written would have been the same for the PP wouldn't it? I can see how there would be a whole lot of stuff on there that you'd never normally deal with in a glider.
I forgot about needing the written if you didn't already have a PP. The written would have been the same for the PP wouldn't it? I can see how there would be a whole lot of stuff on there that you'd never normally deal with in a glider.
tonycondon
Gastons CRO (Chief Dinner Reservation Officer)
Re: Leah Learn's to Glide
no its a specific private pilot glider knowledge test. there is some overlap as far as weather charts, map reading, and apparently ADF and VOR orientation. But the glider test also has glider specific weight and balance questions along with several sink rate and L/D calculation problems.
no its a specific private pilot glider knowledge test. there is some overlap as far as weather charts, map reading, and apparently ADF and VOR orientation. But the glider test also has glider specific weight and balance questions along with several sink rate and L/D calculation problems.
Matthew
Touchdown! Greaser!
Re: Leah Learn's to Glide
Ahh. What about the other way around? I thought that if you already had a PP-power, that you didn't have to take the written for a glider add-on. So, is there a written that just covers the differences? Or is the PP-power written considered to have covered everything that would be on the glider-written? Or is that delta what would be covered as part of the checkride?
Ahh. What about the other way around? I thought that if you already had a PP-power, that you didn't have to take the written for a glider add-on. So, is there a written that just covers the differences? Or is the PP-power written considered to have covered everything that would be on the glider-written? Or is that delta what would be covered as part of the checkride?
tonycondon
Gastons CRO (Chief Dinner Reservation Officer)
Re: Leah Learn's to Glide
yes if you have an airplane certificate you do not have to take the glider written. i guess they figure the extra stuff isn't that difficult or something.
yes if you have an airplane certificate you do not have to take the glider written. i guess they figure the extra stuff isn't that difficult or something.
rottydaddy
En-Route
Re: Leah Learn's to Glide
It's not about airplane stuff, although there are very basic things that apply to both kinds of flying. For me, the most "alien" thing was (and still is) flight profiles... not quite like power flight planning at all, and very important if you are looking to really cover some ground in a glider.
The most challenging part is that it must remain fluid; more so than with power flight planning. This was not a big part of my oral or check ride, but for sure, if I went to some soaring mecca seeking to rent a high-performance ship and go way over the horizon, nobody there would just turn me loose because I had the PP-G. At least I hope not, LOL!
"Task" soaring is another level altogether, but there is no FAA-mandated training for it, because the sport regulates itself in that regard, as far as I know.
But the proof of your basic understanding of gliders and soaring is definitely in the normal PP-G check ride, and it's good enough to officially allow you to enter that world... you won't see a true power-out approach, from beyond a key position, to a landing within 200 feet of a pre-determined point (!) on any PPASEL syllabus.
I'm kinda proud of that- almost more so than those first three solo landings in a 172 way back when... even though, by the time I took my glider check ride, it seemed almost routine.
All this reminds me that it's pretty much just "sleigh ride" season around here already... sigh...
I had a good summer, though. The check ride, some big altitude and distance gains in the single-seater... I'm gonna take that seasoning, add some study over the winter, and go for the commercial next season, I think.
Don't forget that there is an oral exam, even if you hold an airplane cert.
It's not about airplane stuff, although there are very basic things that apply to both kinds of flying. For me, the most "alien" thing was (and still is) flight profiles... not quite like power flight planning at all, and very important if you are looking to really cover some ground in a glider.
The most challenging part is that it must remain fluid; more so than with power flight planning. This was not a big part of my oral or check ride, but for sure, if I went to some soaring mecca seeking to rent a high-performance ship and go way over the horizon, nobody there would just turn me loose because I had the PP-G. At least I hope not, LOL!
"Task" soaring is another level altogether, but there is no FAA-mandated training for it, because the sport regulates itself in that regard, as far as I know.
But the proof of your basic understanding of gliders and soaring is definitely in the normal PP-G check ride, and it's good enough to officially allow you to enter that world... you won't see a true power-out approach, from beyond a key position, to a landing within 200 feet of a pre-determined point (!) on any PPASEL syllabus.
I'm kinda proud of that- almost more so than those first three solo landings in a 172 way back when... even though, by the time I took my glider check ride, it seemed almost routine.
All this reminds me that it's pretty much just "sleigh ride" season around here already... sigh...
I had a good summer, though. The check ride, some big altitude and distance gains in the single-seater... I'm gonna take that seasoning, add some study over the winter, and go for the commercial next season, I think.
tonycondon
Gastons CRO (Chief Dinner Reservation Officer)
Leah passed her oral exam this evening.
BillTIZ
Final Approach
Re: Leah Learn's to Glide
My student that just passed his check ride told be the same thing. The one xc planning question he had was from airport "a" to airport "b" at xx glider speed, how long will it take. He had to measure the distance between airports and do the math. The question did specify that he was high enough over airport "a" to reach "b" in one glide.
My student that just passed his check ride told be the same thing. The one xc planning question he had was from airport "a" to airport "b" at xx glider speed, how long will it take. He had to measure the distance between airports and do the math. The question did specify that he was high enough over airport "a" to reach "b" in one glide.
BillTIZ
Final Approach
rottydaddy
En-Route
Onward and upward!! 
canoecox
Filing Flight Plan
Well it turns out that Val was right.....I PASSED! The checkride itself does have a little bit of a story to it though. On Wednesday I got an email from our local examiner saying that he had come down with the flu and all of his current obligations were up in the air until further notice. I was scheduled to take my check ride at 9:00am on Saturday November 13. On Friday November 12 my instructor/husband called the examiner to touch base while I was at a rowing club meeting. When I got home I was told no joy as the examiner still had a fever and sounded awful. I was disappointed but mostly was just glad to know either way so I knew how I could spend my Friday night (aka studying or staying up late etc). It actually turns out that while I stayed up late, ancestry.com isn't exactly too crazy of a way to spend one's Friday night
I got up early enough to go to breakfast with our local Commemorative Air Force group at the local greasy spoon. Tony (husband) and I were planning on flying (powered) up to Kansas City from Wichita to have dinner at a friends house as a thank you to all the people who donated to friend Shawn's bike ride for MS that evening. Before packing one of Tony's recent glider students (he converted one of our younger tow pilots and is working with him to get his commercial glider add on) had been signed off for solo but Tony had forgotten to give him his tow plane endorsement and Bruce, the student, was planning on doing some (ended up being 11+) solo flights that day. So we headed off to the gliderport and got him set up and we ran wings and relayed until at 10:45 while waiting for him to land Tony and I agreed that at 11am we would let Bruce know we needed to head out so we could pack and fly up to Kansas City.
Guess who called at 11am? The examiner had woken up without a temperature, and while he still really did not have his voice back asked if I still wanted to do my checkride today and if 1pm would be ok. Tony and I both agreed that it was worth being late to KC to get my checkride done and out of the way.
This is the point in the story when I went into scurry mode. While I was out at the gliderport I was neither mentally or physically prepared to take my checkride. I had to dash home, while leaving Tony at the gliderport to pack for our trip as we would head straight to the airport from the gliderport. The main reason for my dashing home though was b/c I had to get my log book and etc that I would need for the check ride. Mentally I had already given up on the idea of taking my check ride that day so I had to get myself focused into "pilot mode". But in pilot mode while I was mostly excited I was also a bit more nervous than I normally would have been. Of my 39+ some glider flights only 2 outings have been made while there has been a North wind in Wichita. 98% of the time the wind is out of the South. Of course on the day of my now checkride guess what the wind is....North-Northwest, though varying towards the west cross-wind. Lovely.
Part of my nerves for a Northwind is that the gliderport is a dual 2,500 ft grass run-ways field (with a future 5,000ft runway that has been graded and will be seeded for next year). It isn't the easiest field to see from the air as it is surrounded by farm property of fields and farm outbuildings. I have my landmarks on the south side of the field down pat but the last time I flew from the North I had a hard time finding the field at first. I must say that the 5,000ft graded black dirt future runway was a great visual aid to help me find the runway from the North. The biggest reason for the nerves though was for my spot/precision landing as on the South side of the field there really are zero landmarks. I ended up using a line of trees as my touch down point/stopping point that was 200 ft before the cones. When landing to the south (starting on the North end) there is a manufactured house, 2 hangars, plus 2 sheds so lots of visual ques to help set myself up to make the cones.
So I beat the examiner back to the glider port and was full of excited energy....I eventually resorted to doing jumping squats to try and burn some of it off. I have always been one of those people where the waiting anticipation is always worse than the actual event that is being awaited.
Once Charles the examiner showed up it was clear that this was going to be Wichita Gliderport's first check ride via pantomime! I knew I should have included Pictionary and Charades as a part of my check ride prep
He had prepared a list of what he wanted me to accomplish on each of the 3 flights #1 tow to 3,000 ft, box the wake and the majority of the flying skills; #2 Rope Break; #3 Slack line, what flying skills I could not get through on flight # 1 and then no airbrake/spoiler landing. He communicated mostly through pointing and gesturing and only spoke rarely when absolutely necessary like when taking the controls to do the slackline.
While we attached the list of things to be done for each flight on the dash I was a little worried about being able to remember what all I needed to do. I did a pre-flight of the glider talking through everything that I was doing/looking for and then we got ready to take-off. It actually was kind of nice to have a nearly mute examiner on some levels. I was a bit worried how to both appear to be as pilot in command of the glider and make my own decisions while at the same time having to meet the examiners list of requirements/looking for him for guidance as to when to perform what task and in what order etc. Tony had a powered student who passed his check ride, but afterwards the examiner stated that the student should have been more assertive. I know that my personality naturally is to look towards one of higher authority than myself for guidance to please them even though I know exactly what "I" would do if I did not have to take direction from them.
Turned out not to be a problem. Once I was in the cockpit and in control I pretended that there was no one in the backseat and just talked my way through everything. Check list (CBSIFTCB) no problem, hook up (Big Ring for the SGS 233), level the wing and off we went. Now just to follow the 3-flight checklist right? Not so easy, I found that at 300 ft the examiner pulled the release to simulate the rope break (even though it was not on the list until flight #2, "talk about false advertisement" ). It caught me by surprise as a true rope break would and I was able to get my nose down, make the right-hand turn towards the alternate runway and then landed downwind on the runway that I took off from. Yes I did turn downwind rather than into the wind b/c I had the alternate runway in sight and the wind would help me drift towards the alternate runway even if it was not into the wind and drifting me away from the original runway. After completing my turn away from the towplane I saw that I had enough altitude to make it back to my initial runway so I did. It like all of my landings that day was a bit on the fast side but once stopped I got a rare word of "good job" from the examiner.
The 2nd flight went pretty much exactly accordingly to plan (even if it was flight #1 plan per the sheet). We took-off, I established my crab angle behind the towplane, once we were at 1000ft agl then I boxed the wake and even held position through the towplane's turn. The examiner then took the controls and did one heck of a slackline. I nearly could not see the towplane he brought us up so high and down so fast to put slack in the rope. I was expecting this though as the examiner has a tendancy for getting rope breaks on slacklines since he put mondo ones in the line (ask Summer). I yawed away from the loop while it was growing and then neutralized the rudder as it was slowing down, pointed towards the towplane and gave a slight downward pitch and did not experience too big of a jerk and the rope held (Just like Gary taught us at Air Sailing @ the Seminar). I ended up releasing before we got to 3000ft agl as planed as the clouds started to look a bit too close. The forecast was for few clouds at 2700 agl and we we not able to get around them so I released when I thought I needed to to stay 500 ft below them.
The rest of the flight was stalls: straight ahead, air brake, turning right and left with airbrake, then 360 turns to the right and left @ best L/D with medium bank. Then steep bank 720 degree turn, then shallow turns at min sink ~ 42 mph to the right and left for 360 degrees. I did repeat this one for the right hand turn as I sped up a bit over 42 mph closer to 50 mph so I repeated this. In part as I caught the edge of a thermal that was trying to spit me out. In fact on most of my turns I was able to hit thermals and climb a bit (just 200 to 400 up not like the big thermals from Reno) but not too shabby for a Kansas day in November. Even though I released a bit earlier I was able to stay up long enough to get through all of the required maneuvers with altitude to spare thanks to those few thermals. I played around with some extra slips to loose some altitude and then set up myself for entry into the pattern. I lined up pretty well with 1/2 airbrakes but on final was feeling like I was coming in a bit short of my landing spot so I closed them (likely too much) and of course picked up speed. I let the glider float to try and burn some of it off but I was a bit fast on touch down though I was able to get stopped with room to spare by using the wheel brake and letting the nose come down onto the skid when it was ready (aka I did not fight to hold it up).
For the third flight Charles decided to shorten it as we had already done the maneuvers so instead of a 2000 ft tow he had me take a 1000 ft pattern tow. The tow went well and then I got myself set up for a no air brake/spoiler approach. For some reason I have always felt more comfortable doing these than spot landings as I know that I only have to make it onto the field at some point. Which I did though I worried for a little while as I was letting it float to kill off some energy that I was letting it go too long. Once I touched down, even though at half way I was well passed where I usually touch down I still had plenty of runway left and should have let it float a little longer so I could have touched down a tad slower. Oh well, something for me to work on as the examiner thought that it was good enough to pass me.
As an email of check ride advice that Tony sent me said "You do not need to be a perfect pilot. You just have to show that you are a competent pilot" and I feel that I was able to do that. After all a pilot's certificate is actually just a license to learn (too cheesy?). Mostly though, I am glad that I was able to get it in before the weather put an end to things so I did not have to have it sitting over my head all winter. Now I can relax and enjoy my new certificate. Tomorrow in fact I am hoping (if the weather behaves and I can lasso a tow pilot) to fly my very own glider that had been waiting patiently for me in the hangar letting others fly her so as not to get too dusty. I am a bit nervous for this but am also very excited to introduce myself to her and experience my first flight in a single seater. I guess that this concludes this thread, thank you all for reading and encouraging me through out my training!
Leah Condon
(I have a 1964 Cherokee II that I got as a wedding present from Tony to match his 1965 Cherokee II).
The checkride itself does have a little bit of a story to it though. On Wednesday I got an email from our local examiner saying that he had come down with the flu and all of his current obligations were up in the air until further notice. I was scheduled to take my check ride at 9:00am on Saturday November 13. On Friday November 12 my instructor/husband called the examiner to touch base while I was at a rowing club meeting. When I got home I was told no joy as the examiner still had a fever and sounded awful. I was disappointed but mostly was just glad to know either way so I knew how I could spend my Friday night (aka studying or staying up late etc). It actually turns out that while I stayed up late, ancestry.com isn't exactly too crazy of a way to spend one's Friday night I got up early enough to go to breakfast with our local Commemorative Air Force group at the local greasy spoon. Tony (husband) and I were planning on flying (powered) up to Kansas City from Wichita to have dinner at a friends house as a thank you to all the people who donated to friend Shawn's bike ride for MS that evening. Before packing one of Tony's recent glider students (he converted one of our younger tow pilots and is working with him to get his commercial glider add on) had been signed off for solo but Tony had forgotten to give him his tow plane endorsement and Bruce, the student, was planning on doing some (ended up being 11+) solo flights that day. So we headed off to the gliderport and got him set up and we ran wings and relayed until at 10:45 while waiting for him to land Tony and I agreed that at 11am we would let Bruce know we needed to head out so we could pack and fly up to Kansas City.
Guess who called at 11am? The examiner had woken up without a temperature, and while he still really did not have his voice back asked if I still wanted to do my checkride today and if 1pm would be ok. Tony and I both agreed that it was worth being late to KC to get my checkride done and out of the way.
This is the point in the story when I went into scurry mode. While I was out at the gliderport I was neither mentally or physically prepared to take my checkride. I had to dash home, while leaving Tony at the gliderport to pack for our trip as we would head straight to the airport from the gliderport. The main reason for my dashing home though was b/c I had to get my log book and etc that I would need for the check ride. Mentally I had already given up on the idea of taking my check ride that day so I had to get myself focused into "pilot mode". But in pilot mode while I was mostly excited I was also a bit more nervous than I normally would have been. Of my 39+ some glider flights only 2 outings have been made while there has been a North wind in Wichita. 98% of the time the wind is out of the South. Of course on the day of my now checkride guess what the wind is....North-Northwest, though varying towards the west cross-wind. Lovely.
Part of my nerves for a Northwind is that the gliderport is a dual 2,500 ft grass run-ways field (with a future 5,000ft runway that has been graded and will be seeded for next year). It isn't the easiest field to see from the air as it is surrounded by farm property of fields and farm outbuildings. I have my landmarks on the south side of the field down pat but the last time I flew from the North I had a hard time finding the field at first. I must say that the 5,000ft graded black dirt future runway was a great visual aid to help me find the runway from the North. The biggest reason for the nerves though was for my spot/precision landing as on the South side of the field there really are zero landmarks. I ended up using a line of trees as my touch down point/stopping point that was 200 ft before the cones. When landing to the south (starting on the North end) there is a manufactured house, 2 hangars, plus 2 sheds so lots of visual ques to help set myself up to make the cones.
So I beat the examiner back to the glider port and was full of excited energy....I eventually resorted to doing jumping squats
to try and burn some of it off. I have always been one of those people where the waiting anticipation is always worse than the actual event that is being awaited.Once Charles the examiner showed up it was clear that this was going to be Wichita Gliderport's first check ride via pantomime! I knew I should have included Pictionary and Charades as a part of my check ride prep
He had prepared a list of what he wanted me to accomplish on each of the 3 flights #1 tow to 3,000 ft, box the wake and the majority of the flying skills; #2 Rope Break; #3 Slack line, what flying skills I could not get through on flight # 1 and then no airbrake/spoiler landing. He communicated mostly through pointing and gesturing and only spoke rarely when absolutely necessary like when taking the controls to do the slackline.While we attached the list of things to be done for each flight on the dash I was a little worried about being able to remember what all I needed to do. I did a pre-flight of the glider talking through everything that I was doing/looking for and then we got ready to take-off. It actually was kind of nice to have a nearly mute examiner on some levels. I was a bit worried how to both appear to be as pilot in command of the glider and make my own decisions while at the same time having to meet the examiners list of requirements/looking for him for guidance as to when to perform what task and in what order etc. Tony had a powered student who passed his check ride, but afterwards the examiner stated that the student should have been more assertive. I know that my personality naturally is to look towards one of higher authority than myself for guidance to please them even though I know exactly what "I" would do if I did not have to take direction from them.
Turned out not to be a problem. Once I was in the cockpit and in control I pretended that there was no one in the backseat and just talked my way through everything. Check list (CBSIFTCB) no problem, hook up (Big Ring for the SGS 233), level the wing and off we went. Now just to follow the 3-flight checklist right? Not so easy, I found that at 300 ft the examiner pulled the release to simulate the rope break (even though it was not on the list until flight #2, "talk about false advertisement"
). It caught me by surprise as a true rope break would and I was able to get my nose down, make the right-hand turn towards the alternate runway and then landed downwind on the runway that I took off from. Yes I did turn downwind rather than into the wind b/c I had the alternate runway in sight and the wind would help me drift towards the alternate runway even if it was not into the wind and drifting me away from the original runway. After completing my turn away from the towplane I saw that I had enough altitude to make it back to my initial runway so I did. It like all of my landings that day was a bit on the fast side but once stopped I got a rare word of "good job" from the examiner.The 2nd flight went pretty much exactly accordingly to plan (even if it was flight #1 plan per the sheet). We took-off, I established my crab angle behind the towplane, once we were at 1000ft agl then I boxed the wake and even held position through the towplane's turn. The examiner then took the controls and did one heck of a slackline. I nearly could not see the towplane he brought us up so high and down so fast to put slack in the rope. I was expecting this though as the examiner has a tendancy for getting rope breaks on slacklines since he put mondo ones in the line (ask Summer). I yawed away from the loop while it was growing and then neutralized the rudder as it was slowing down, pointed towards the towplane and gave a slight downward pitch and did not experience too big of a jerk and the rope held (Just like Gary taught us at Air Sailing @ the Seminar). I ended up releasing before we got to 3000ft agl as planed as the clouds started to look a bit too close. The forecast was for few clouds at 2700 agl and we we not able to get around them so I released when I thought I needed to to stay 500 ft below them.
The rest of the flight was stalls: straight ahead, air brake, turning right and left with airbrake, then 360 turns to the right and left @ best L/D with medium bank. Then steep bank 720 degree turn, then shallow turns at min sink ~ 42 mph to the right and left for 360 degrees. I did repeat this one for the right hand turn as I sped up a bit over 42 mph closer to 50 mph so I repeated this. In part as I caught the edge of a thermal that was trying to spit me out. In fact on most of my turns I was able to hit thermals and climb a bit (just 200 to 400 up not like the big thermals from Reno) but not too shabby for a Kansas day in November. Even though I released a bit earlier I was able to stay up long enough to get through all of the required maneuvers with altitude to spare thanks to those few thermals. I played around with some extra slips to loose some altitude and then set up myself for entry into the pattern. I lined up pretty well with 1/2 airbrakes but on final was feeling like I was coming in a bit short of my landing spot so I closed them (likely too much) and of course picked up speed. I let the glider float to try and burn some of it off but I was a bit fast on touch down though I was able to get stopped with room to spare by using the wheel brake and letting the nose come down onto the skid when it was ready (aka I did not fight to hold it up).
For the third flight Charles decided to shorten it as we had already done the maneuvers so instead of a 2000 ft tow he had me take a 1000 ft pattern tow. The tow went well and then I got myself set up for a no air brake/spoiler approach. For some reason I have always felt more comfortable doing these than spot landings as I know that I only have to make it onto the field at some point. Which I did though I worried for a little while as I was letting it float to kill off some energy that I was letting it go too long. Once I touched down, even though at half way I was well passed where I usually touch down I still had plenty of runway left and should have let it float a little longer so I could have touched down a tad slower. Oh well, something for me to work on as the examiner thought that it was good enough to pass me.
As an email of check ride advice that Tony sent me said "You do not need to be a perfect pilot. You just have to show that you are a competent pilot" and I feel that I was able to do that. After all a pilot's certificate is actually just a license to learn (too cheesy?). Mostly though, I am glad that I was able to get it in before the weather put an end to things so I did not have to have it sitting over my head all winter. Now I can relax and enjoy my new certificate. Tomorrow in fact I am hoping (if the weather behaves and I can lasso a tow pilot) to fly my very own glider that had been waiting patiently for me in the hangar letting others fly her so as not to get too dusty. I am a bit nervous for this but am also very excited to introduce myself to her and experience my first flight in a single seater. I guess that this concludes this thread, thank you all for reading and encouraging me through out my training!
Leah Condon
(I have a 1964 Cherokee II that I got as a wedding present from Tony to match his 1965 Cherokee II).
Steve
En-Route
Congratulations, Leah. Glad to hear you've made it!
I'm sure Tony is most happy, too.
I'm sure Tony is most happy, too.
Everskyward
Experimenter
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Everskyward
That's great news Leah! Congratulations!
shenanigans
Pre-takeoff checklist
Congratulations Leah! I enjoyed reading your write up of the checkride.
Yeah, they lie to you about the rope break. : ) And for some reason, no one ever expects it on the first tow.
He had prepared a list of what he wanted me to accomplish on each of the 3 flights #1 tow to 3,000 ft, box the wake and the majority of the flying skills; #2 Rope Break; #3 Slack line, what flying skills I could not get through on flight # 1 and then no airbrake/spoiler landing.
...
Now just to follow the 3-flight checklist right? Not so easy, I found that at 300 ft the examiner pulled the release to simulate the rope break (even though it was not on the list until flight #2, "talk about false advertisement"
Yeah, they lie to you about the rope break. : ) And for some reason, no one ever expects it on the first tow.
Arbiter419
Cleared for Takeoff
Congrats!
gprellwitz
Touchdown! Greaser!
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2005
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Grant Prellwitz
Felicitations! Congrats!