Laptop died: need advice on how to keep Jepp database current

azure

azure

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azure
It finally happened this morning: I went to boot up my ancient Toshiba laptop that I use to update my Jepp nav database cards for my GPS and MFD, and... nothing happened. Either there was an internal failure in the laptop or the external power supply died. The simplest solution would be to replace the PS which is only $50, but I have no idea if that's the problem, and I certainly do not want to spend $200 to take the thing to Micro Center only to have them tell me the laptop is kaput.

So what do I do? At work, everything has gone Mac... I don't even have access to a computer running Windows (well, one exception, or 6 to be more exact, but those are student-use machines in a lab and I don't dare install JSUM on them). I don't own Windows or I would be tempted to try Parallels on my MacBook Pro. I am very hesitant to spend money to try something that I don't know for sure will work (see above re: power supply).

Does anyone know how close Jeppesen is to having a Mac port for JSUM? That would be the best solution, but as of today there is no announcement on their website, despite some rumors out of OSH that it would be released sometime this year.

My databases are expired as of yesterday. Any ideas would be welcome.
 
Have a friend with a PC?

Can you get a really cheap used one?

All else fails, Jepp can probably switch you over to a by-mail program at extra $$$.
 
Steve Foley said:
Check eBay for prices. They're pretty cheap.

But first, check your PS with a volt meter.
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I wanted to do that, but (a) the thing is so old I can't even read what the voltage should be (I suspect 12V but again, no way to be sure), and (b) on that tubular thingy-type connector, I'm not sure where the terminals are that I should be measuring between.

Bill, yes I know they have a mail program. That's what I want to avoid since I believe it's pretty expensive.

I'm at work now and think I'd better try using the student computers for now... install JSUM, update my cards, then uninstall it. Maybe I'll do that every month if it isn't too much trouble (I don't really recall how involved the process was, or if I needed to call Jepp to tie the installation to my subscription), at least until Jepp releases their Mac port or I can find a more permanent solution.
 
azure said:
I wanted to do that, but (a) the thing is so old I can't even read what the voltage should be (I suspect 12V but again, no way to be sure), and (b) on that tubular thingy-type connector, I'm not sure where the terminals are that I should be measuring between.

Bill, yes I know they have a mail program. That's what I want to avoid since I believe it's pretty expensive.

I'm at work now and think I'd better try using the student computers for now... install JSUM, update my cards, then uninstall it. Maybe I'll do that every month if it isn't too much trouble (I don't really recall how involved the process was, or if I needed to call Jepp to tie the installation to my subscription), at least until Jepp releases their Mac port or I can find a more permanent solution.
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Jepp doesn't care what or how many computers you install JSUM on. You might even be able to install it on a flash drive with the help of a freeware "portable" app instead of putting on the hard drive.

Meanwhile, you can measure the adapter output (no load) by sticking one probe of a meter into the center hole in the plug and touching the other lead to the outside of the metal barrel. These days most laptop adapters are in the 18-20v range but some older ones were indeed 12v. But I wouldn't get too hung up on the voltage, chances are if it puts out more than a few volts it's generating the correct voltage. Whether or not it can do that under load is another issue and a bit harder to check.

OTOH, if your laptop just up and quit without you running the battery down it's unlikely the problem is in the adapter. Laptops are getting pretty cheap and a used one that would be adequate for this task could probably be found for $50-100. In fact I happen to have a Gateway that was my daughter's (she got a new one for college) sitting here and I was thinking of putting on eBay and hoping for $100.
 
gismo said:
Jepp doesn't care what or how many computers you install JSUM on. You might even be able to install it on a flash drive with the help of a freeware "portable" app instead of putting on the hard drive.
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Oh I know they don't care, it's freeware. The only thing it's good for is updating Jepp subscription products, so they've no need to charge for the software. I just don't want to leave it on a student computer where someone else could access my Jeppesen account. So I installed it, updated my cards, then uninstalled it -- painless enough actually. I'm not sure if it will run off a flash drive -- actually I didn't think of trying that, it's an idea.

Meanwhile, you can measure the adapter output (no load) by sticking one probe of a meter into the center hole in the plug and touching the other lead to the outside of the metal barrel. These days most laptop adapters are in the 18-20v range but some older ones were indeed 12v. But I wouldn't get too hung up on the voltage, chances are if it puts out more than a few volts it's generating the correct voltage. Whether or not it can do that under load is another issue and a bit harder to check.
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Thanks -- yeah I thought about loading too, don't know how to check voltage under load, or simulate the load imposed by the laptop. The adapter is putting out something though, since the laptop LEDs flash momentarily when it's first connected.

OTOH, if your laptop just up and quit without you running the battery down it's unlikely the problem is in the adapter. Laptops are getting pretty cheap and a used one that would be adequate for this task could probably be found for $50-100. In fact I happen to have a Gateway that was my daughter's (she got a new one for college) sitting here and I was thinking of putting on eBay and hoping for $100.
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The battery is dead, as in doornail dead, and has been for years. It's an ancient Toshiba S-121 that I turn on once a month, using the adapter. This one WAS an old used laptop, a hand-me-down from work. I guess I could probably pick up one cheap enough if I really look.
 
azure said:
Oh I know they don't care, it's freeware. The only thing it's good for is updating Jepp subscription products, so they've no need to charge for the software. I just don't want to leave it on a student computer where someone else could access my Jeppesen account. So I installed it, updated my cards, then uninstalled it -- painless enough actually. I'm not sure if it will run off a flash drive -- actually I didn't think of trying that, it's an idea.


Thanks -- yeah I thought about loading too, don't know how to check voltage under load, or simulate the load imposed by the laptop. The adapter is putting out something though, since the laptop LEDs flash momentarily when it's first connected.


The battery is dead, as in doornail dead, and has been for years. It's an ancient Toshiba S-121 that I turn on once a month, using the adapter. This one WAS an old used laptop, a hand-me-down from work. I guess I could probably pick up one cheap enough if I really look.
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Try removing the battery if you already haven't. A dead one can prevent the laptop from working.

I doubt the app will work from a flashdrive directly but there are freeware programs that allow many applications to work that way.
 
gismo said:
Try removing the battery if you already haven't. A dead one can prevent the laptop from working.
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Thought of that just before I left for work -- then noticed I'd need to dig out a screwdriver so left it until later. Also, I wasn't sure it was designed to work off the adapter with no battery installed at all.

It's still worth a try though.
 
I update using a Mac book pro running windows 7 in parallels. Works great.
 
The "what do I do?" question is best answered with "what do you want to do?". ;)

If you're still thinking repair, the voltmeter is the right first step.

Does anything change at all when it's plugged in? Power LED illuminates, etc? Or just all extinguished/off?

Any signs of life at all when you hit the power switch?

Sounded odd to me that you'd need a screwdriver to remove the battery, but maybe. What model is it? Google will find both a diagram (for us) and the power supply voltage (for you). ;)
 
Jepp will never have a product for native Mac, at least not in any of our lifetimes. Your only option is Win7 under Parallels or BootCamp.
 
denverpilot said:
The "what do I do?" question is best answered with "what do you want to do?". ;)
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If I can repair it for under $50, that's my first choice.

If you're still thinking repair, the voltmeter is the right first step.
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It puts out 12V under zero load.

Does anything change at all when it's plugged in? Power LED illuminates, etc? Or just all extinguished/off?
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Yes, when you plug the adapter in all the LEDs flash momentarily, then go off.

Any signs of life at all when you hit the power switch?
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None whatsoever.

Sounded odd to me that you'd need a screwdriver to remove the battery, but maybe. What model is it? Google will find both a diagram (for us) and the power supply voltage (for you). ;)
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You don't. I had to download the user manual from Retrevo to figure out which module was the battery, but it turns out it wasn't one of the ones fastened in with screws. It didn't make a difference; behavior was the same with or without the battery installed.

I couldn't find a circuit diagram or spec sheet online though.
 
murphey said:
Jepp will never have a product for native Mac, at least not in any of our lifetimes. Your only option is Win7 under Parallels or BootCamp.
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Why do you say that? From Jepp's JSUM FAQ:

"Currently, JSUM is only compatible with PCs running Windows. However, we are working to expand support for other platforms, such as the Mac. Please continue to check back here for updates."
 
azure said:
Why do you say that? From Jepp's JSUM FAQ:

"Currently, JSUM is only compatible with PCs running Windows. However, we are working to expand support for other platforms, such as the Mac. Please continue to check back here for updates."
Click to expand...

Call me when it happens. Until then, I've still got a bridge to sell.

When Jepp bought that company in San Jose, the first thing they did was kill the Mac version because they claimed there was no market. And every contact with Jepp about Mac support has been "run Parallels or Bootcamp or...."
 
That might be true. I can't find any proof of what someone implied a month ago on the CFO digest, that a native Mac port was premiered at OSH, but it DOES appear that they have at least a pre-release browser-based version and they let people try it out there on Macs. If that's true it kinda doesn't matter whether they ever do a native port. Check out the Jepp Facebook page at http://www.facebook.com/JeppDirect?sk=app_2309869772
 
Interesting that the lights all flash when power is first applied and then nothing. That's the first step of the power-on-self-test (POST) when PCs start booting. It's likely the machine is seeing something out of spec during POST and shutting off.

Standard POST tests are supposed to beep the internal speaker a number of times to indicate what kind of hardware problem the BIOS found if that occurs, but sometimes laptops don't beep. Depends on the model.

There's probably not an "easy" fix, and by the description of the age of the machine, it may be best to just start with another used laptop.

Some things you could do (in stream of thought order, not necessarily the smartest order to try first):

- Find someone selling the identical model in working condition on eBay or somewhere, move the hard disk into it, boot. Done. Assuming the hard drive works. See below... ;)

- Open up the current one and re-seat all stuff with connectors starting with the stuff end-users usually replace like hard disk and RAM chips. Vibration kills laptops by wiggling stuff loose. In addition you can try things like removing one RAM chip and leaving the others, but this won't work if the machine is the type that RAM had to be installed in matched pairs.

- Plug in an external monitor to make sure you're not just fighting a dead backlight or other monitor failure. ;)

- Check for stuck keyboard keys too. (BTDT!) ;)

- Hold down or repeatedly press the key that would normally have taken you to the BIOS firmware settings while powering up. (With the external monitor connected perhaps, too.) If the BIOS responds, suspect a dead hard drive. If you can get into the BIOS look at the settings (especially the clock). If it's empty or set to something like 1970 or sometime in the early 1990s, the BIOS backup lithium battery has failed. Some are in clips on the motherboard and easily replaceable. Others are soldered in and take a bit more skill. On a laptop, getting at the motherboard requires a bit more disassembly/reassembly skill than a desktop machine.

-You can also remove the hard drive and connect it via very cheap adapters to a working machine via USB to confirm if it's working at all. Know any computer geeks? They probably have one.

All in all, I'd say for an old machine, treat it like it's dead, but if you have hours to mess with it you can be mildly surprised if you can get it working again, kinda like having an old car in the driveway and getting it running for the cost of a few cheap parts at the auto parts store. ;)

I've wasted a lot of time in the past getting old "junk" hardware running especially when I was broke and had no money to buy newer stuff. It can be done, but time value of money changes with a bit of income and I stopped messing with the old stuff.

I'd just yank the drive if it still worked and I thought there was anything important on it, plug it into something newer/working via USB adapter, and I'd have copied off the needed data, and tossed/recycled the old machine or offered it to someone still in the broke/tinkering phase of life. ;)

There's a number of older desktop and laptop machines around here with various intermittent problems in my basement.

Like the old desktop machine that had Linux on it and ran my mail and website for years. It developed a nasty habit of locking up solid every few months which was inappropriate for a server. It's probably a bad stick of RAM or a flaky power supply but it wasn't worth the time to troubleshoot it. A brand new, with warranty, machine that was "last years technology" at Microcenter was $230 out the door with tax, and outperformed the old machine by a huge margin.

That's just the nature of computer hardware. It's obsolete before it leaves the store. ;)

By the way, if you take the hard drive out, Best Buy will recycle darn near any electronics for free. (Unless they've changed that policy. Check their website. Some of them will charge you $10 but give you a $10 gift card.)
 
azure said:
Thanks Jesse! Then for me, the $64K question is whether I'll have to repartition to install Windows.
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If you install Parallels you do not need to repartition, It's just a virtual machine.
 
Nate, it isn't worth it to me to try to troubleshoot it. And there is nothing on the hard drive worth saving. I doubt if it's the HD anyway since absolutely NOTHING happens when you hit the power button -- no LEDs flickering, no fan spinup, nothing. The brief flash of all the LEDs is not a POST failure -- it happens when you first plug the adapter in, BEFORE you hit the power button.

I noticed on the bottom of the laptop that it says "DC 19V" -- if that means what it seems to, then the adapter is putting out insufficient voltage. So I'm beginning to think it might really be the adapter. But I'm not inclined to throw money at it unless there's no other easy solution.

Jesse, that's great. But I thought you had to install Windows to run Windows apps? I didn't think you could even do that on the Apple proprietary filesystems like HFS (though I notice that mine is Mac Extended Journaled format, which might make a difference). If that's really doable then my best solution really would be to buy Windows through the U at a discount, and run JSUM in a VM under Parallels.
 
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azure said:
Jesse, that's great. But I thought you had to install Windows to run Windows apps? I didn't think you could even do that on the Apple proprietary filesystems like HFS (though I notice that mine is Mac Extended Journaled format, which might make a difference). If that's really doable then my best solution really would be to buy Windows through the U at a discount, and run JSUM in a VM under Parallels.
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You've been able to do it quite well for some time (since apple switched to Intel, made it much faster). There are lots of products for it:

http://www.parallels.com/products/desktop/
http://www.vmware.com/products/fusion/overview.html
http://www.virtualbox.org/

I prefer Parallels, and I know from experience that JSUM works fine in it with my USB Skybound adapter. It's probably not an officially supported configuration but what works works.
 
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Good info on the voltages. Most laptops use similar connectors.

You could ask around and see if any computer geeks or local repair shops have a 19V adapter to try without buying one.

As far as the Windows question, I think Jesse might be missing your question...

Yes to use Parallels, VMWare, VirtualBox, or Boot Camp on a Mac, you do need a licensed copy of Windows to install, if that was the question?
 
denverpilot said:
As far as the Windows question, I think Jesse might be missing your question...

Yes to use Parallels, VMWare, VirtualBox, or Boot Camp on a Mac, you do need a licensed copy of Windows to install, if that was the question?
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I think you're both missing my question. :) It's about compatibility of Windows with the Mac filesystem. Obviously if people are running Windows under Parallels without creating a separate partition then either the problem no longer exists or Parallels has a way around it. I was just wondering what that was... does it simulate a NTFS filesystem too, or does it do some form of repartitioning transparently? I didn't think there were any generally available drivers for HFS or Mac OS Extended Journaled under Windows, though I think there are drivers included with Boot Camp.
 
I use Parallels to run JSUM on my MACbook Air. It carves out some space on the MAC HFS filesystem to store the virtualized windows filesystem as well as some other information it needs to persist the VM. Yes you need a copy of windows to install in the VM. It thinks you're installing it on a windows filesystem. The mac knows nothing about it.

By the way, the mac has no problem reading mounted windows drives.

Other than being ungodly slow to run, it works fine. When I put the card burner into the USB port it asks if I want it connected to the MAC or the VM.
 
azure said:
I think you're both missing my question. :) It's about compatibility of Windows with the Mac filesystem. Obviously if people are running Windows under Parallels without creating a separate partition then either the problem no longer exists or Parallels has a way around it. I was just wondering what that was... does it simulate a NTFS filesystem too, or does it do some form of repartitioning transparently? I didn't think there were any generally available drivers for HFS or Mac OS Extended Journaled under Windows, though I think there are drivers included with Boot Camp.
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It creates a virtual disk, which is just a file on the Mac Filesystem, that appears to be a raw disk device to the virtual machine. The virtual machine can then use whatever filesystem it so pleases. There is absolutely no issue to worry about.

Download and install parallels and you can easily install windows and JSUM. Piece of cake. Nothing complicated about it :) When you hook up your USB SkyBound adapter Parallels will pop up and ask you if you want it to attach that device to the Mac or to the Windows Virtual Machine. Select the virtual machine and you're in business.
 
Another option on Intel Macs of course is Boot Camp, where it does make you a partition (no real brainpower necessary) and helps you install Windows natively as a dual-boot. Want to do something in Windows, you just boot to it. Popular with the gamers since it gives better performance. The only hard part is figuring how much drive space you'll give up to The Virus. ;)
 
Oh that would be an easy decision for me: the bare minimum. But I'm not sure I'd be happy with having to shut everything down to update my Garmin cards. Knowing my adapter is putting out reduced voltage, I think I'll try asking at Best Buy first, see if they have another adapter they'd let me try just to see if that fixes the problem. Thanks everyone.
 
Go to a computer shop and try THEIR power supply!

Or buy a $10 Radioshack voltmeter and find out if you have 19/2 V across your power plug....!
 
I have a Mac with Windoze XP running under Parallels Desktop. JSUM works fine.

You don't need to spring for the latest version of Windoze.. you should be able to pick up an OEM copy of XP Home for relatively cheap.
 
bbchien said:
Go to a computer shop and try THEIR power supply!

Or buy a $10 Radioshack voltmeter and find out if you have 19/2 V across your power plug....!
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Yep Bruce, planning just that... I already checked the voltage and it's 12V, so it's definitely not up to snuff. Most computer stores around here won't talk to you about service without a deposit, so I think I'll try Best Buy first, the local outlet is pretty laid back.
 
azure said:
Yep Bruce, planning just that... I already checked the voltage and it's 12V, so it's definitely not up to snuff. Most computer stores around here won't talk to you about service without a deposit, so I think I'll try Best Buy first, the local outlet is pretty laid back.
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They won't likely have a power adapter for any reasonable price. You can probably order yourself one on the internet for $20 (real common models) and save yourself a good $80.
 
jesse said:
They won't likely have a power adapter for any reasonable price. You can probably order yourself one on the internet for $20 (real common models) and save yourself a good $80.
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The idea is to ask if I can just try theirs, not buy it... unless it's at reasonable cost, which I doubt. I still don't know for sure that that is the only problem. If I did, of course I would order online.

Didn't get a chance today though. Had to run for fuel after work... have a BFR scheduled for tomorrow, just in case the plane is flyable this weekend for 6Y9.
 
azure said:
The idea is to ask if I can just try theirs, not buy it... unless it's at reasonable cost, which I doubt. I still don't know for sure that that is the only problem. If I did, of course I would order online.

Didn't get a chance today though. Had to run for fuel after work... have a BFR scheduled for tomorrow, just in case the plane is flyable this weekend for 6Y9.
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When I worked for GeekSquad @ Best Buy, we wouldn't have had one for you to try with. There are so many different adapters out there and a few "agents" made some mistakes just guessing with adapters which cost us money. The universal ones were always crap.
 
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