Laptop battery thoughts

Let'sgoflying!

Let'sgoflying!

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Dave Taylor
Tired of the fried laptop battery problem. (buried in the manual is 'don't leave them plugged in' which results in overcharging the battery and greatly shortened lifespan)

Two thoughts:
A) Wish list for laptop mfgs: A battery cycling program built into all machines. Maybe software could do it. Probably not.
It would ask you only this: Will you need the battery soon?
If you check 'yes', it will keep it charged. Check 'no', it runs the battery down, then recharges and then disconnect the battery from the charger on a periodic basis.

B) What is a consumer-level way to do this now, in case I buy a new battery? The cord is hard to get to and I don't want to be always plugging/unplugging it.
 
Thanks Steve, I am looking for a way to avoid manual hardware changes such as unplugging things.

I feel like we should be at a stage where technology should allow more than just 'dumbcharging' where the full power is constantly being supplied to a 100$ battery without regard for its charge state, resulting in the inevitable cooked cells.
 
What I love is laptops that will not run off AC without a battery installed. I use mine 95 percent of the time as a desktop. Plug/unplug is an annoying hassle.
 
Some laptops are better then others about their battery management. Most modern laptops are not a "dumbcharge" as you state - if they were your lithium-ion battery would likely start on fire. Once the battery in my Mac reaches a certain voltage it switches to "Charged" mode and backs the charge way back. I imagine about any laptop will do that now.

I generally get about a year out of my laptop battery before I want a new one - but I use it all day long and constantly discharge/charge throughout the work day. It still works after that year but it's degraded 20-50%. The battery in my latest MacBook Pro seems to be standing the test of time better then my previous generation model.

Truth is batteries don't last forever. I imagine the "cheaper" laptops are worse about their battery management.
 
jesse said:
Some laptops are better then others about their battery management. Most modern laptops are not a "dumbcharge" as you state - if they were your lithium-ion battery would likely start on fire. Once the battery in my Mac reaches a certain voltage it switches to "Charged" mode and backs the charge way back. I imagine about any laptop will do that now.

I generally get about a year out of my laptop battery before I want a new one - but I use it all day long and constantly discharge/charge throughout the work day. It still works after that year but it's degraded 20-50%. The battery in my latest MacBook Pro seems to be standing the test of time better then my previous generation model.

Truth is batteries don't last forever. I imagine the "cheaper" laptops are worse about their battery management.
Click to expand...

I think Jesse's got it about right. The warnings in those laptop manuals are a carryover from the ancient days when the batteries were lead-acid and the charging was poorly controlled. These days the batteries actually have a computer inside them and the charging program is way more sophisticated than anything users could accomplish on their own by unplugging batteries except that L-Ion batteries have a longer shelf life if left partially discharged in some cases so if you really don't need the battery for a few months you could just leave it out (better yet put it in the fridge) and it will probably last a bit longer.
 
What?! They do have charging circuitry but still only last maybe a year??
Based on batt survival in many other devices that is shocking.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
What?! They do have charging circuitry but still only last maybe a year??
Based on batt survival in many other devices that is shocking.
Click to expand...
I've generally found that the capacity diminishes to about half the original in about two years of hard use (many charge/discharge cycles). The problem with most laptops the original capacity is marginal to begin with and losing a fourth or half of that leaves you with very little run time. I've found about the same behavior with cellphones but there the original capacity is pretty good and since the run time is extremely dependent on use, it's harder to notice the loss until it gets really bad.
 
Mine has a docking station that eliminates that hassle.

Ken Ibold said:
What I love is laptops that will not run off AC without a battery installed. I use mine 95 percent of the time as a desktop. Plug/unplug is an annoying hassle.
Click to expand...
 
Ken Ibold said:
What I love is laptops that will not run off AC without a battery installed. I use mine 95 percent of the time as a desktop. Plug/unplug is an annoying hassle.
Click to expand...

In 30 years of using laptops I've never run into one that wouldn't operate off the AC adapter with the battery removed (except for one or two that wouldn't operate with or without the battery). I have encountered some that wouldn't run with a dead battery installed even though the AC was connected and working. Removing the battery in that case brought the computer up normally.
 
gismo said:
In 30 years of using laptops I've never run into one that wouldn't operate off the AC adapter with the battery removed (except for one or two that wouldn't operate with or without the battery). I have encountered some that wouldn't run with a dead battery installed even though the AC was connected and working. Removing the battery in that case brought the computer up normally.
Click to expand...
I've never ran into one either.
 
jesse said:
Some laptops are better then others about their battery management. Most modern laptops are not a "dumbcharge" as you state - if they were your lithium-ion battery would likely start on fire. Once the battery in my Mac reaches a certain voltage it switches to "Charged" mode and backs the charge way back. I imagine about any laptop will do that now.

I generally get about a year out of my laptop battery before I want a new one - but I use it all day long and constantly discharge/charge throughout the work day. It still works after that year but it's degraded 20-50%. The battery in my latest MacBook Pro seems to be standing the test of time better then my previous generation model.

Truth is batteries don't last forever. I imagine the "cheaper" laptops are worse about their battery management.
Click to expand...
It is getting near the time I need to replace my Mac Book Pro's battery. What is a good source for replacements, Apple?
 
ScottM said:
It is getting near the time I need to replace my Mac Book Pro's battery. What is a good source for replacements, Apple?
Click to expand...
I've always bought them from Apple.
 
ScottM said:
It is getting near the time I need to replace my Mac Book Pro's battery. What is a good source for replacements, Apple?
Click to expand...

There's one guy from the US on eBay that was selling real OEM Apple batteries for about $20 less. If you can't find him When I went to buy mine I ended up with one whose "OEM" battery shipped from Hong Kong too late to give feedback that it wasn't OEM. So far it hasn't exploded but it shows only 98% charge.

I had two genuine Apple batteries die after barely a year because I'm almost always plugged into power and they don't get exercised. This reminds that I need to go portable and run it down.
 
mikea said:
I had two genuine Apple batteries die after barely a year because I'm almost always plugged into power and they don't get exercised. This reminds that I need to go portable and run it down.
Click to expand...

Mike,

I'm sure you know about this Apple Support Doc on calibrating your Macbook's battery, but I'll post it again for the benefit of the others.

http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1490
 
Ken Ibold said:
My Dell does just that. I'd never run into that problem either until this one. But it is 5 years old and getting a little hinky, so perhaps it's just another "Dell POS" issue.
Click to expand...
I've had and/or used several Dells and all would work with the battery removed. I'm pretty certain yours is malfunctioning.
 
OK I bought a new battery. Ran it up and down a few times and now it is fully charged.

How do I switch it off? How can I disconnect the battery in the power management software so that it is not receiving any power?

I want to leave it physically attached to the laptop so it is ready when I need it - but I don't want to leave it charging the whole time.

You guys are geniuses, what command do I type in?
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
OK I bought a new battery. Ran it up and down a few times and now it is fully charged.

How do I switch it off? How can I disconnect the battery in the power management software so that it is not receiving any power?

I want to leave it physically attached to the laptop so it is ready when I need it - but I don't want to leave it charging the whole time.

You guys are geniuses, what command do I type in?
Click to expand...
You don't. You can either leave the battery in and trust the battery and the power system or you physically remove it. :)
 
I might cut into the old battery, figure a way to wire a tiny cutoff switch into the wire connection to the last cell then do that to the new battery
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
I might cut into the old battery, figure a way to wire a tiny cutoff switch into the wire connection to the last cell then do that to the new battery
Click to expand...
I'd proceed with extreme caution when it comes to cutting into a laptop battery and doing any sort of re-wiring. There might be wires going to each cell from the charging circuitry to keep them in balance (but have no idea). The last thing you want is a fire on your lap.

I really don't think you'd get a whole lot of gain out of all this work. Either remove the battery when you're not using it (which in the long run may or may not make a difference as to its life) and just expect to purchase new ones. They don't last forever and are just part of laptop TCO.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Killjoy.
;)
Click to expand...

OK then, go ahead an cut into it. Just set up a video camera first so we can watch you collect your Darwin Award. :eek:

Seriously Dave, I'd strongly argue against it, too. Lithium ion battery packs have (or there should have, if they're not cheap knockoffs) protection circuits inside. These are important overcurrent and overtemperature safety items. You would not want to bypass them.

Apple has a little more info on battery technology here:

http://www.apple.com/batteries/
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
I might cut into the old battery, figure a way to wire a tiny cutoff switch into the wire connection to the last cell then do that to the new battery
Click to expand...
Dave, there's really no point in doing this. If the laptop charging circuit is working properly it will provide the ideal float voltage to the battery once it's charged and that's better for the battery than disconnecting. If the charger is malfunctioning the battery won't likely survive when you do connect it.
 
rpadula said:
Mike,

I'm sure you know about this Apple Support Doc on calibrating your Macbook's battery, but I'll post it again for the benefit of the others.

http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1490
Click to expand...

Heh. I did that and just checked that I did it all right. I did.

It shows 100% charge where it was 90%.

Battery Information:

Battery Installed: Yes
First low level warning: No
Full Charge Capacity (mAh): 5134
Remaining Capacity (mAh): 5134
Amperage (mA): 45
Voltage (mV): 12580
Cycle Count: 5
Click to expand...
I doubt I've actually cycled it 5 times but maybe they did a few cycles at the factory.

My knock-off Hong Kong battery just might be alright.
 
gismo said:
Dave, there's really no point in doing this. If the laptop charging circuit is working properly it will provide the ideal float voltage to the battery once it's charged and that's better for the battery than disconnecting. If the charger is malfunctioning the battery won't likely survive when you do connect it.
Click to expand...


Thanks.
I figured my approach would've had a decent chance at mimicking the results experienced with "inspect the defective HD" a year ago. Plus some flames, acrid smoke.
 
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