Landing

SixPapaCharlie

SixPapaCharlie

May the force be with you
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Question. I can set the plane on a specific spot at this point.

However I rarely do unless I am practicing. I generally always come in a little faster than recommended and settle as gently as possibly toying with the flare to make the most seamless transition from air to ground.

The former method gives me a bit of a thud and mush shorter stopping distance but the latter is more comfortable.

I know it eats up runway but I don't land anywhere < 3000 ft at this point.

What is your practice? Do you try and set it on a certain spot or let it settle for a smoother landing? In the 172, I could do both but in the TB9 coming in slow and flaring is not as smooth. May come in time but not yet.
 
Situational. When I was towing banners with a Citabria out of a 2200' dirt strip it was chop, drop, stop with no pax.

When I fly the Bo, with wife and kids, on a 4600' paved runway, I try to squeak it on.
 
I try to mix it up.

Lately, if there are any crosswinds, I've been working the soft field technique. They sure like to weathervane with the nosegear up.
 
I find myself almost playing a game on the long strips to see how unnoticeable I can make touchdown.

Just wondering if doing this sort of landing frequently is going to result in a bad habit that I need to unlearn later.

Also didn't know how common this is. I always wonder if all other pilots try and to thing as they were taught every time.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
I find myself almost playing a game on the long strips to see how unnoticeable I can make touchdown.

Just wondering if doing this sort of landing frequently is going to result in a bad habit that I need to unlearn later.

Also didn't know how common this is. I always wonder if all other pilots try and to thing as they were taught every time.
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Eh. One of my transient instructors whom I refer to as "Yoda" (don't tell him) said that the more time you can spend off of the wheels and brakes the better. If you are parking 2/3 of the way down the runway, don't execute a short field.

I think his lesson to me in part was put the plane down where and how it makes sense. I think learning THAT will make me a good pilot.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
However I rarely do unless I am practicing. I generally always come in a little faster than recommended and settle as gently as possibly toying with the flare to make the most seamless transition from air to ground.
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I do the same, and they generally produce some nice landings, but like you said they eat up runway.

I've landed on a a 48'x 2800' runway before and a few 60'x 3100' runways, and I always set up really nice and try an touch down as early as possible, i've never even come close to using up the runway when I land on a shorter runway, but I sure as hell like to use up a 10,000' runway lol...

I think, at least for me I know the space for error is really small on a shorter/narrower runway so I really zone in on my landings, I know I have some leway on longer runways so I try to make those comfortble.
 
OK, good to know my practice is not out of the ordinary.
Thanks!
 
Depends where my turnoff is. There's been a few times I've used up 7,000' of runway before touching down.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
OK, good to know my practice is not out of the ordinary.
Thanks!
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If you don't get murdered out during your free exploration flight with the 40 year old virgin let me know and i'll fly out and check your Tampico out to see if the trade is worth it. Im @ GKY
 
Jhernandez04 said:
If you don't get murdered out during your free exploration flight with the 40 year old virgin let me know and i'll fly out and check your Tampico out to see if the trade is worth it. Im @ GKY
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WTF!!!!
 
EdFred said:
Depends where my turnoff is. There's been a few times I've used up 7,000' of runway before touching down.
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When I go to COS, most of the time I"m coming in from the SE, and get a straight in for 31. After I get cleared to land, I'll reply that I'll be down at that other end. I just fly down the runway and touch down around the 7000' mark where the skid marks from the other direction start. ;)
 
Like to grease it in most of the time,also like to practice short field spot landings every now and then,usually when I'm alone. Any landing you walk away from is a good one.
 
At my home airport the runway I normally land on requires a backtrack to the ramp, and out of courtesy to those waiting to depart I normally try to set it down and stop early to clear the runway quickly. Mind you, if I'm landing on the other runways I'll try and make it a soft one if I'm with passengers, its one of the main things of the flight they remember!
 
Oh god the threads are overlapping.
Never cross the streams.

Hernandez, where are you out of?

Edit: I didn't read the last sentence referring to "GKY"
 
EdFred said:
Depends where my turnoff is. There's been a few times I've used up 7,000' of runway before touching down.
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This. I've also used 7,000' of a 11,000' runway because why taxi a mile when you can do some legal slow flight 100' off the runway and it makes it easier for the buses so you don't take up a taxiway while you work your way back to the FBO.

So, to answer the OPs question, it entirely depends. Short runway with PAX, gentle short-field landing but landing performance takes preference. Long runway without PAX, I usually practice either short or soft-field landings or try to mix it up for fun. PAX grease that landing as much as possible! Did a great one a few weeks ago with some new flyers, it was so buttery you couldn't tell we were on the ground. If you need some more speed and take up twice the length you normally need who cares.

One caveat; gusty or crosswind landings. I wait for a stable point, hear the stall horn, and set her down. If you keep pulling to try to get it smooth then you're probably way too slow and at risk of being severely blown around.
 
Just keep practicing and one day you will be able to make a smooth "greaser" while doing a short field landing / hitting the spot you want.
 
Hernandez,

I would like to organize a flight to KSEP in the near future and hit Hard 8. I would like to get some of the local pilots to go. AggieMike, RVTim, and whomever else is available in the upcoming weeks.

I would gladly swing by your field and pick you up.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Hernandez,

I would like to organize a flight to KSEP in the near future and hit Hard 8. I would like to get some of the local pilots to go. AggieMike, RVTim, and whomever else is available in the upcoming weeks.

I would gladly swing by your field and pick you up.
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If im off work, count me in. Got room for the wife?
 
I generally try to land with full flaps and as slowly as I can, then hold the nose off as long as I can, conditions permitting.

My Sky Arrow only takes a few hundred feet to land, with a 39k stall speed. So I can usually land anywhere on the runway, and will often land long to make a certain turnoff and decrease taxi time.

But when practicing I do try to put it on the numbers (or a specific spot), doing a decent job in the first landing here (the second was from a power-off simulation where I ended up high on final and had to slip to make it down - practice, practice, practice)

http://youtu.be/dhauE4oUeE0?t=3m30s
 
In the Comanche, consistency is key. Couple kts fast, and you're using up a lot of runway. slow and you "arrive" rather than land. I'll play with flap settings, because landing with full flaps she's still a little light on her feet in a cross-wind, but the speed is the speed.
85mph on final.
 
FastEddieB said:
I generally try to land with full flaps and as slowly as I can, then hold the nose off as long as I can, conditions permitting.

My Sky Arrow only takes a few hundred feet to land, with a 39k stall speed. So I can usually land anywhere on the runway, and will often land long to make a certain turnoff and decrease taxi time.

But when practicing I do try to put it on the numbers (or a specific spot), doing a decent job in the first landing here (the second was from a power-off simulation where I ended up high on final and had to slip to make it down - practice, practice, practice)

http://youtu.be/dhauE4oUeE0?t=3m30s
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I love your plane.
Looks so fun
 
Maybe I could come too and buy y'all a round of beers especially you Hernandez for calling you gay (sorry)
 
ChrisK said:
Eh. One of my transient instructors whom I refer to as "Yoda" (don't tell him) said that the more time you can spend off of the wheels and brakes the better. If you are parking 2/3 of the way down the runway, don't execute a short field.

I think his lesson to me in part was put the plane down where and how it makes sense. I think learning THAT will make me a good pilot.
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I like that.

To extend it a bit, being 'situational' about your approach to landings is the natural thing to do. If you normally operate out of 6,000' level, unobstructed strips with the FBO at the middle turnoff, you may be challenged when confronted with say, my home strip. But if you fly in and out of a variety of airports and challenge yourself to make the best landing for the situation, I think you end up in a good place proficiency-wise.

Looking for safe situations that challange your skills appropriately is good thing too. Here's a favorite of mine:
Charlotte Airport Diagram (way out of date)

Light GA traffic is always cleared to runways 18L/36R or 23 to get to the GA ramp. When cleared for 23, landing and being able to offer a turnoff at Delta is expedient and welcomed. And it's just challenging enough after 10 minutes of high speed vectoring to make it fun.
 
docmirror said:
When I go to COS, most of the time I"m coming in from the SE, and get a straight in for 31. After I get cleared to land, I'll reply that I'll be down at that other end. I just fly down the runway and touch down around the 7000' mark where the skid marks from the other direction start. ;)
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Yeah, Cutter is way out there, isn't it?

You'll naturally eat more runway at the high altitude.

I routinely land on a 2400 foot runway. That's not short unless it's severely obstructed (then, you approach power off, full flap, and minimum speed). A 172 can land easily in half that at sea level.

I do short fields at Angwin (2o3), but that's a weird airport, even if not particularly short. Ridge under short final, parking near the ridge, no parallel taxiway, and occasional NORDO idiots (legal, but really bad there because it takes a while to get off the runway). I wanna be as close to the threshold as possible when stopped.
 
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Jhernandez04 said:
Might have to just follow you in the the ol' 235.

How fast is the Tampico?
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Cruises 95-105 and wind is a huge factor.
2 weeks ago I flew 147kt GS to Gainseville
and 42kts GS on the way back

Built for comfort not speed.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Cruises 95-105 and wind is a huge factor.
2 weeks ago I flew 147kt GS to Gainseville
and 42kts GS on the way back

Built for comfort not speed.
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Oh good, you wont just run off and leave me then. I got a heavy hauler, its just not a speed demon.

Whats the Hard 8? (Please, no jokes or sarcasm... not sure I can stand any more of that today) lol :nono:
 
Great BBQ joint across form stephenville airport.
Land, call the restaurant, they will pick you up and take you back.

No liquor license so beer there is free for the wives.
 
I think I am about to answer the question I am asking
Is there an official definition of "short field" or is it based on the plane?
I am assuming it is based on the plane.

Edit: and I don't mean "A 2000 foot strip is a short field"
I mean more like " X % shorter than the planes takeoff / landing distance at gross"
 
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SixPapaCharlie said:
Great BBQ joint across form stephenville airport.
Land, call the restaurant, they will pick you up and take you back.

No liquor license so beer there is free for the wives.
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I'll be taking my checkride soon and my wife loves BBQ, she'll be excited about it.

Otherwise it will be me on a signed off XC following you. :wink2:
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
I think I am about to answer the question I am asking
Is there an official definition of "short field" or is it based on the plane?
I am assuming it is based on the plane.

Edit: and I don't mean "A 2000 foot strip is a short field"
I mean more like " X % shorter than the planes takeoff / landing distance at gross"
Click to expand...


I think you should look at

whattofly.com

Find your specific plane "performance" it will have your landing footage and take off footage. I believe they are based off of "Gross Weight" so you may experience shorter numbers then posted. But those numbers have helped me.
 
Jhernandez04 said:
I'll be taking my checkride soon and my wife loves BBQ, she'll be excited about it.

Otherwise it will be me on a signed off XC following you. :wink2:
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Ok, and your wife is welcome to ride along with my wife and Me.
 
Jhernandez04 said:
I think you should look at

whattofly.com

Find your specific plane "performance" it will have your landing footage and take off footage. I believe they are based off of "Gross Weight" so you may experience shorter numbers then posted. But those numbers have helped me.
Click to expand...

That is a cool site. Good to know my plane is almost 200 lbs heavier than factory. I need to dump some gizmos and get that useful load up.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
I think I am about to answer the question I am asking
Is there an official definition of "short field" or is it based on the plane?
I am assuming it is based on the plane.

Edit: and I don't mean "A 2000 foot strip is a short field"
I mean more like " X % shorter than the planes takeoff / landing distance at gross"
Click to expand...

Of course it's based on the plane. 3000 feet is VERY short for a 747. It also depends on density altitude, though at high DA, you typically do a combination of short and soft (hold brakes a few microns from the end of the runway, full throttle, lift off early and gain speed in ground effect to Vx).

In a nutshell, if you need to do anything special, it's a short field. With obstructions, a short field can be longer than a normal field without obstructions.

Normal landings can be done in a 172 down to well under 2000 feet at sea level on a standard day. I'd expect that Tampico to be similar. Why not measure it? You can use runway distance markers or count stripes (120' length, 80' spaces).
 
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