Landing light for a '78 Warrior

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weilke

Touchdown! Greaser!
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weilke
Last night, I landed after dark and noticed that the landing light had stopped working. I assume it is the bulb as they are known for a short life.

What would be the standard landing light bulb on a 78 model year PA28-161 ?
Is there some replacement with a slightly longer life expectancy ?
Is there a legit LED replacement (I have my doubts about the 'standard electrical part' interpretation when it comes to drop-in LED or HID replacments) ?
 
weilke said:
Last night, I landed after dark and noticed that the landing light had stopped working. I assume it is the bulb as they are known for a short life.

What would be the standard landing light bulb on a 78 model year PA28-161 ?
Is there some replacement with a slightly longer life expectancy ?
Is there a legit LED replacement (I have my doubts about the 'standard electrical part' interpretation when it comes to drop-in LED or HID replacments) ?
Click to expand...

Teledyne Alphabeam, just put one in my PA28-151. $285 at Aircraft Spruce.
 
The Whelen Parmethus is STC. Chief, Spruce, whatever. Easy to install but make sure your A&P ok's the installation and writes it up in the log book.
 
So, indirectly, it sounds like what I am looking for is either:
- a box of 4509 reflector lamps.
- a Q4509 (quartz ?)
- a Teledyne Alphabeam (HID ?)
- wheelen Parmetheus (LED ?)
 
rpadula said:
$285 for a headlight? :yikes: No wonder you're looking for another partner.
Click to expand...

The Whelen LED landing light has a 1000-hour life (and I bet it'll go longer) and draws 2.6 amps @ 14 volts. The old 4509 has a 25-hour life and draws 19 amps at 14 volts.

40 times the life sounds good to me, and cutting the current by 86% means the switch, breaker, wiring and terminals don't get nearly as hot and will last far longer, and the alternator's job gets easier so that field brushes last longer. The LED bulb has no filament to get shaken to bits by engine and prop vibration, too.

I put the Whelens in two 172s last year and the guys loved them.

Dan
 
rpadula said:
$285 for a headlight? :yikes: No wonder you're looking for another partner.
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You want in Rich? You won't ever have to pay for a landing light replacement. :D

Also working on replacing the panel bulbs with LED's :wink2:
 
EppyGA said:
You want in Rich? You won't ever have to pay for a landing light replacement. :D

Also working on replacing the panel bulbs with LED's :wink2:
Click to expand...

Let me know how that works...
 
LEDs do seem to be a nice way to reduce power rqmts. I've just gotten a single panel LED (BA9S-W-120-12V) referred to in another thread to see how the light is distributed and dimming performance. A landing light is in the future too. The 4509's I've dealt with pull about 8 amps. Getting that down to 2.5 or so would be great.
 
EppyGA said:
Will do. The cost per LED replacement is .98 - 1.98 depending on the color you choose.
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I am especially interested in dim-ability (dimableness? Dimaliciousness? Dim-worthiness?). How well they take to being dimmed.
 
SCCutler said:
I am especially interested in dim-ability (dimableness? Dimaliciousness? Dim-worthiness?). How well they take to being dimmed.
Click to expand...

My early test has been that they seem to dim nicely. I plan on testing a bit more tonight after dark in the hangar. Unfortunately my dimmer rheostat has a bad spot so I don't get a nice linear change. I get a change from turn on to a point then they go out until I close to full on and they come back on.
 
bartmc said:
Whatever you do don't put a Q4509 in, no telling what might happen. :)
Click to expand...

Is my sarcasm indicator INOP again? Because I put a Q in and what happened on mine is that it works, it lights up like a charm, it doesn't cost 300 dollars and it's already exceeded its supposed hour life. More gas for me... :)
 
hindsight2020 said:
Is my sarcasm indicator INOP again? Because I put a Q in and what happened on mine is that it works, it lights up like a charm, it doesn't cost 300 dollars and it's already exceeded its supposed hour life. More gas for me... :)
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Which brand of 'Q' do you have, there are a couple of lesser known ones, there is GE and then there is Wheelen. Is the 'Q' a 'standard electrical part' ? From what I could read, the 'Q' is only a problem in installations behind a lens because it can heat the plexi to melting if operated on the ground. In the mighty Warrior, the glass of the reflector is out in the breeze and this should not be an issue.
 
Folks have been dinged for Q lights by Fed types not considering them standard parts.

Continue with caution
 
Skylane81E said:
Folks have been dinged for Q lights by Fed types not considering them standard parts.

Continue with caution
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There is only one GA plane parked closer to the FAA building on Independence on a regular basis. No shortage of feds, many even fly out of the same field. Thanks for the heads-up. I guess it'll be a box of regular 4509s and a phillips screwdriver then.
 
Skylane81E said:
Folks have been dinged for Q lights by Fed types not considering them standard parts.

Continue with caution
Click to expand...

I don't know anyone who DOESN'T use the Q4509. I've got three of them, and the ones in the wings NEVER burn out. (No vibration out there, apparently.)

Of course, the one in the nose doesn't burn out, either -- cuz we never turn it on anymore. :D
 
hindsight2020 said:
Is my sarcasm indicator INOP again? Because I put a Q in and what happened on mine is that it works, it lights up like a charm, it doesn't cost 300 dollars and it's already exceeded its supposed hour life. More gas for me... :)
Click to expand...

You'll run out of luck soon enough... Then POOF there goes your wings.

I have no idea why but I put a LEGAL 4509 in my plane burned out in 4hrs, I replaced it with an identical one that I leave on all the time in flight (usually accidentally) and it's been burning strong for about 150hrs over the past couple of years.. I'm not sure what good it does those, it puts out no light.
 
weilke said:
There is only one GA plane parked closer to the FAA building on Independence on a regular basis. No shortage of feds, many even fly out of the same field. Thanks for the heads-up. I guess it'll be a box of regular 4509s and a phillips screwdriver then.
Click to expand...


Silly that we have to worry about such a tiny little thing huh? Guess the line has to be drawn somewhere.
 
Skylane81E said:
Worth every penny IMO when the other options are considered
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It will be interesting to watch the performance of these LED landing lights over time. They all promise extremely long life, but if you look at the actual performance of LEDs in the field, they have fallen far short of their promise.

Evidence of this is everywhere. Check out all the stoplights that have been converted to LEDs, and count the number of burnt-out "pixels" (or whatever they're called) in the "bulbs". Municipalities are finding that they have to be replaced far more often than predicted.

My personal experience with solar-powered LED lights has been dismal, although it's hard to say whether it's the LEDs that fail, or the built-in rechargeable batteries. All I know is we've got 'em around our pool at the hotel, and we have replaced all of them -- some of them twice -- in the less-than two years we've been open.

So, let us know how it goes. I hope it works out as advertised!
 
I'd be willing to bet the cost of admission that the cost per hour will be at least as good as a normal bulb.

My intent however is to eventually go HID in the cowl as well as installing a set in the wing tips. Then hook up a flasher and get reported in as a UFO
 
Skylane81E said:
Silly that we have to worry about such a tiny little thing huh? Guess the line has to be drawn somewhere.
Click to expand...

Yeah. Problem with those lamps is that they are readily visible by outside inspection.
I understand the 'standard electrical part' ruling to mean that you can replace a broken spade connector made by company A with one made by company B without having to worry about the paperwork that travels with it. Replacing a lamp that draws X amp to make Y candela with a Z beamwith with one where X, Y and Z are different is probably not what they had in mind.

The easy solution would be fore Piper to just put the 'Q' into the maintenance manual or parts manual (or whatever the right piece of paper is).
 
weilke said:
Yeah. Problem with those lamps is that they are readily visible by outside inspection.
I understand the 'standard electrical part' ruling to mean that you can replace a broken spade connector made by company A with one made by company B without having to worry about the paperwork that travels with it. Replacing a lamp that draws X amp to make Y candela with a Z beamwith with one where X, Y and Z are different is probably not what they had in mind.

The easy solution would be fore Piper to just put the 'Q' into the maintenance manual or parts manual (or whatever the right piece of paper is).
Click to expand...

Like they've done with the Gates Alternator belts? And even the improved Gates HD Belt. :rofl:
 
weilke said:
I am not familiar with that issue.
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Your alternator belt is made by Gates, it's 8-9 bucks from about any parts store. If you get it from Piper the only difference it a felt tip pen (silver I believe :wink2:) written piper part number and about 60 extra bucks. Gates has since come out with an "updated" version of the belt called the HD version that is superior, it's about 15 bucks from your local auto supply shop, it's also illegal to install on your plane unless you want to go to the trouble to get one of these. http://www.piperforum.com/bart/GatesBelt.pdf
 
bartmc said:
Your alternator belt is made by Gates, it's 8-9 bucks from about any parts store. If you get it from Piper the only difference it a felt tip pen (silver I believe :wink2:) written piper part number and about 60 extra bucks. Gates has since come out with an "updated" version of the belt called the HD version that is superior, it's about 15 bucks from your local auto supply shop, it's also illegal to install on your plane unless you want to go to the trouble to get one of these. http://www.piperforum.com/bart/GatesBelt.pdf
Click to expand...

Thanks for the 'administrator approved data' :goofy:.
 
JohnAJohnson said:
GE 4509's for $7.50 here. Makes it hard to economically justify a $300+ LED.
Click to expand...

Probably a good idea to have a spare and a screwdriver on board, that way you are not stuck somewhere.

The landing in the dark on a 2600ft runway, with 90 ft trees off the end and taxiing around the field in the ink poking a flashlight out the window is is not something I wish to repeat.
 
weilke said:
Probably a good idea to have a spare and a screwdriver on board, that way you are not stuck somewhere.

The landing in the dark on a 2600ft runway, with 90 ft trees off the end and taxiing around the field in the ink poking a flashlight out the window is is not something I wish to repeat.
Click to expand...

My "new" one burned out in flight, cloudy night, uncontrolled airport, basic PCL runway lighting for a backwoods MT strip. 3" of ice on the runway. I don't think I've made a landing that good since.
 
bartmc said:
My "new" one burned out in flight, cloudy night, uncontrolled airport, basic PCL runway lighting for a backwoods MT strip. 3" of ice on the runway. I don't think I've made a landing that good since.
Click to expand...

You got me beat with the ice ;)

Point is, with only one light, the frequent failures are more than an economic issue. Is the knowledge that you have a working light when you flip the switch worth $300 ? Personal choice I guess.
 
weilke said:
Probably a good idea to have a spare and a screwdriver on board, that way you are not stuck somewhere.

The landing in the dark on a 2600ft runway, with 90 ft trees off the end and taxiing around the field in the ink poking a flashlight out the window is is not something I wish to repeat.
Click to expand...

Agreed.............. That 300 dollar light is looking real good then...:yesnod::yesnod:
 
Turns out the local branch of North American Plane Accessories had a plain 4509 in stock.
 
focal_plane said:
LEDs do seem to be a nice way to reduce power rqmts. I've just gotten a single panel LED (BA9S-W-120-12V) referred to in another thread to see how the light is distributed and dimming performance. A landing light is in the future too. The 4509's I've dealt with pull about 8 amps. Getting that down to 2.5 or so would be great.
Click to expand...

The Whelen 4509 draws 1.2 amps. I was getting confused with the the 4522, the bigger light. That's the one that draws 19 amps at 14 volts or so.

The reduction from 8 amps to 1.2 is 85%.

I bought the LED replacement for the 4509 for $198, in Canada, at Aviall.

LEDs are here to stay until something better comes along. The burned-out LED elements in some traffic lights and truck/bus taillights are to be expected; quality control on some of this stuff might not be what it should be. On the other hand, the light is still working and doing its job; a single filament in an incandescent is either working or it's not. No warning by gradual failure as in the multi-element LED.

I use (and most other mechanics do, too) LED flashlights in the shop. The batteries last a long, long time and dropping the thing on the concrete floor does nothing to it at all. I don't know why anyone would buy an incandescent flashlight anymore, yet I still see lots of them on the display racks in the stores. Considering that the incandescent bulb loses at least 75% of the electrical energy as heat instead of useful light, it's time it was obsolete. I'm waiting for affordable LED household bulbs. Don't like those compact fluorescents at all.

Dan
 
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