Landing a 182

If you have to go around, use the manual trim - it's a lot faster.
 
The reason for using most/all of the nose up trim in landing a 182 is to reduce the chance of the all-to-common problem of landing on the nosewheel. If the trim is dialed in, you are much less likely to drop it in on the nose, since trim makes it easier to land in a near-stall attitude. The con$equence$ of not doing this are written in the maintenance logs of probably 75% of all 182s ever built (wrinkled firewalls, collapsed nose gears/prop strikes).

I practice go-arounds regularly in the 182. As previous posters have mentioned, except under high density altitude/rapidly rising terrain conditions, a 182 has plenty of power to smoothly transition from the landing to go-around phases without resorting to apprupt power and configuration changes.

Jeff
 
Jeff Oslick said:
The reason for using most/all of the nose up trim in landing a 182 is to reduce the chance of the all-to-common problem of landing on the nosewheel. If the trim is dialed in, you are much less likely to drop it in on the nose, since trim makes it easier to land in a near-stall attitude. The con$equence$ of not doing this are written in the maintenance logs of probably 75% of all 182s ever built (wrinkled firewalls, collapsed nose gears/prop strikes).

I practice go-arounds regularly in the 182. As previous posters have mentioned, except under high density altitude/rapidly rising terrain conditions, a 182 has plenty of power to smoothly transition from the landing to go-around phases without resorting to apprupt power and configuration changes.

Jeff
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BINGO! I know my 182 has the "firewall damage" in its logbook from 1975. Of course this was an engine out and over-run of the emergency airfield but still! LOL

I have spoken with a LOT of 182 owners and the refrain is the same "trim well and keep the nose up, you do NOT want to slam it into the ground nose first".

My approach speed on final is around 70mph (I have an older bird, MPH instead of knots on the dial) and am at 65mph just over the fence....my landings are getting smoother and smoother!
 
CJones said:
When we completed the maneuver and were back in the pattern, I asked Tony "Was I doing something wrong? Was I trimmed wrong?" He said "Nope, you were trimmed perfectly for approach, I just wanted to show you that this thing will climb with full flaps and approach trim." I said "Cool! Thanks!"
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yep and trim it full nose up with full flaps and then give it full power and with a little inattention you will be in a power on full flap stall with a 30 degree plus pitch attitude.
 
thanks all for you suggestions. Everything went very well yesterday. I made sure to trim the 182 to relieve the control pressure when turning final, I also waited a little longer to drop the 30's (basically when I crossed the fence) and brought a little bit more trim in, and then brought the power out a little slower, and wouldn't you know it, my landings were all really pretty good. Much better than the last time I flew the 182 where I was flaring high and touching down pretty hard.

After getting a couple landings under my belt, I did a go around, and as Ben has suggested, instead of slamming the power in, I did it more gradual, and had no issues with the nose getting too high.

The whole reason I wanted to clean up the landings to make them passable was because me and family (my wife and 2 girls) were taking a quick X-C from KMQJ to KBMG (only 53nm). We are trying to get the girls used to flying for longer than 10 - 15 minutes. They loved it, and we got the courtesy car at KBMG and grabbed some dinner before heading home.

Wx cooperated pretty well, winds were pretty light out of the North-East, and only some scattered clouds around the 4,500 to 5,500 range. It was a little hazy on the trip down, but nice and clear on the way back. Indy Approach vectored me to the East a little when we got closer to the Class C to get us out of the way of the departing traffic from KIND (probably had a lot of departing traffic due to some stock car race... the Brick, something or other :D)

The Goodyear and Ginn Resorts blimps were parked at KMQJ when we got back. Unfortunately I didn't have my camera with me, as we taxied right past them on the way back to the ramp. Very cool.
 
sbonek said:
it's supposed to be easier than a 172... agree?
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No, not even close. Of course, I did my primary training in a 172, then did a lot of Piper flying (very easy to land), and then transitioned to the 182. It wasn't until I quit flying the Pipers for the most part that I got really good at landing the 182.

I remember my instructor telling me that if you try to land a 182 without using a lot of trim, your left arm is going to be sore.
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Some folks swear by it, but I trim for 80mph (yes, mph, old bird) on final for a normal landing or 75mph for short/soft or light and don't touch it in the flare. If I go around, I'm already trimmed for Vy.

Basically when I chop the power after the runway is made, the thing just drops like a rock. One thing I tried the last time I flew the 182 was to bring the power out a little more gradually, rather than just going directly to idle.
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Yes... Do that all the time (bring power out gradually as you begin the flare, don't chop & drop).

Any other tips any 182'ers might have for this situation?
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Practice, practice, practice. It sounds like you might be doing what I was doing for the first 16 months or so I was in my club: Fly the cheap birds (Archers for me, 172's for you) when you're flying locally, and fly the 182 when you go on a trip. This is not going to help you learn to land the 182.

When the Archer that I normally flew went down for maintenance for a significant amount of time, I started flying the 182 a lot more. When I was getting lots of time in, I got much better at landing it.

I do have to ask... Are you flying a 182 with 30 degrees of flaps, or 40? Knots or MPH? I know that when I flew a brand spankin' new G1000 182, it didn't land anything like the trusty 1971 bird I normally fly.

spiderweb said:
I know a lot of people do it, but I do not recommend ever getting to near or full nose-up trim. I know the guy who wrote the famous Skylane book (can't remember the title), recommended this, too. I don't understand it, unless it is an old Skylane thing.
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I'm guessing this was from back in the "power-off approach so you can make the runway if the engine fails" days. N271G, when competely power-off with full nose-up trim, nails 80mph. Add any power and the nose heads for the sky. Normal approach for me is 12" MP and nowhere close to full nose-up trim.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
..snip..

Practice, practice, practice. It sounds like you might be doing what I was doing for the first 16 months or so I was in my club: Fly the cheap birds (Archers for me, 172's for you) when you're flying locally, and fly the 182 when you go on a trip. This is not going to help you learn to land the 182.

..snip..

I do have to ask... Are you flying a 182 with 30 degrees of flaps, or 40? Knots or MPH? I know that when I flew a brand spankin' new G1000 182, it didn't land anything like the trusty 1971 bird I normally fly.
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I try to fly the 182 on a regular basis, just to keep used to dealing with the prop controller, and how it lands. However, due to the incremental cost of the 182 over the 172's, I'll usually only fly it if I need the extra useful load, or if it's been a few weeks since I've flown it. Just like I try to fly the non-G1000 172's on a fairly regular basis, so I can remember the differences between flying a G1000 equipped a/c and a non-G1000.

Nope, it's a 2004 182 with G1000, so it only goes to 30's.
 
This is a rather belated post, but hopefully useful. I generally adjust the MP to 19" on downwind, dec to 13" abeam with 1 notch flaps and nose up to get 90 knots, 2 notch flaps at base turn with more trim and power back to get 80 knots; at final, I trim more nose up and power back to get 70 knots at short final. (I rarely use full flaps unless I'm significantly high, as you will drop fast and you will have to push hard forward on yoke to keep speed at 60 kts). I pull power just short of runway. Start trimming to bleed off speed and nose up just TO KEEP PLANE FROM LANDING. It will land nicely. I have 2800 hours in my Cessna 182R.
 
I fly a 182. I can tell you at first it was hard not to think it on. But with time and training I find it quite easy to land and grease. Unless needed I’m a 20deg flaps guy. I trim on final even over the approach lights I’m still trimming. As you get slower need more control Input. Will need to pull that yoke effortlessly into your lap. I usually have power chopped at the numbers unless there is a good crosswind then might carry a bit to before flare. Stall horn should be blaring couple seconds before touchdown. Just have to trust in keep pulling back on yoke.
To many ppl get stuck on a site picture or angle and freeze and just wait for plane to land itself. - will be fast, porpoising and messy. 182 front gear is not a fan of slamming her down.

Full flap landings are a different beast and sight picture all together. Admittedly I find them hard to grease on like a 20 degree flap landing. They tend to be more abrupt and less graceful -for me. Perhaps something to work on next time with CFI
 
Recognizing this is a necro-post, how has this thing gone for 12 years without someone mentioning the high-wing Cessnas starting at the 182 and going up (205/206, etc) all need a fat case of oil in the baggage compartment to make landings easier?! In my 205, if I’m solo (or worse, with two big guys up front), I’ll put two - count ‘em TWO - full 6.5 gallon water jugs as far back as I can put them. That’s, what... 104 pounds!

As long as we’re on the subject, the issue is that when they’re near the forward CG limit, as they usually are when solo or lightly loaded, there’s really not enough elevator to lift the nose properly at slow speeds. It feels like they kind of plop in flat but that’s not because they ran out of lift, it’s because you couldn’t get the nose up high enough.

There are a couple solutions, which I use in combination: weight in the back, some power in the flare to help “blow” the tail down, full nose up trim (or as much as is necessary to maintain your final apporoach speed; in the 205 that is routinely full nose up and if I want to fly a slower approach speed, I have to maintain back-pressure on the yoke throughout the final approach in addition to full nose up trim), and don’t let the thing touch down until the yoke is at the stops with full back pressure. Yes, they drop like rocks when you take the power out with full flaps in, which needs to be anticipated. It can be hard to arrest a no-power descent in the flare if you don’t add back in a little bit of power.
 
Use only 20 degrees of flap unless you need to make a really short landing. With full flaps you will be in a flat attitude and will be more likely to hit nosewheel first if you don't get the flair just right. Be on speed and altitude on short final and trim all pressure off the elevator. Keep a little power until the flair. Hold it off as long as possible like a taildragger making a full stall landing. A case of oil or water in the baggage compartment also helps if you don't have baggage or back seat pasengers. This has worked on both the 182s I have owned. Also works on my current Mooney except that I can chop power on short final and I use full flaps more often.
 
20 degrees here. Sometimes I put 20 in on downwind abeam, just depends on how stabilized I’d like to be and how early...I like to do short approaches with power out if possible, but I’m not that good yet.

Most times- 80-90 kts downwind which is around 16”. Pull power to 13” to start the descent. 70 knots downwind, 65 base, 60 final.
 
Bad GA landings happen one of two ways. 1. Pilot tries to fish the runway like a 737 captain. 2. flares too early too much and stall the airplane high off the ground.
Fly Vref trimmed out to the threshold. Over the threshold slowly cut power and hold the pitch attitude with the yoke. You will be ever so slightly nose down. When in ground effect pull back only to slow (not stop the fall). This works in most if not all tricycle gear airplanes I have ever flown in and it always gets you stopped using minimum runway.
If your airplane is gaining altitude at any point after you cut the power over the threshold something isn't right. you should be considering a go around.
 
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Try looking down the side of the cowling rather than straight ahead and heavier Cessna's are a lot of fun on a low and slow go around with full flaps had a truck run out into the runway when I was just about to flare in a loaded 206 when I was about 20 feet in the air he was about 100 feet in front of me, I added some power and went over the top of the truck, of course I ended up with a harder than usual landing since I was very slow, and no option to go around since it was a one way in and out strip 1400 feet long with really big trees at the end.
 
Ladypilot said:
I rarely use full flaps
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benyflyguy said:
I’m a 20deg flaps guy.
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mooneyflyfast said:
Use only 20 degrees of flap unless you need to make a really short landing.
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No, no, NO! :mad2: Full flaps. Every time. Yes, it's harder than with 20 degrees, but you just need to learn how to do it, otherwise those more-challenging situations where you do need full flaps, you're going to screw up.

Also, if you ever fly an R182 (RG), the gear warning horn doesn't come on until you go past 20 degrees of flaps. No quicker way to become one of "those who have" than to learn to land it with 20 degrees.

benyflyguy said:
Full flap landings are a different beast and sight picture all together. Admittedly I find them hard to grease on like a 20 degree flap landing. They tend to be more abrupt and less graceful -for me. Perhaps something to work on next time with CFI
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Yup. All of this... The 40-degree-flap birds are noticeably more difficult to land with 40 than with 20. The difference isn't nearly as pronounced on the 30-degree-flap birds. But it should be done with full flaps, every time... And if for some reason you NEED to land with less than full flaps (I can't think of what that reason would be) it's much easier anyway.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Also, if you ever fly an R182 (RG), the gear warning horn doesn't come on until you go past 20 degrees of flaps. No quicker way to become one of "those who have" than to learn to land it with 20 degrees.
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That’s not right. The gear horn sounds above 25 degrees of flaps and gear up OR at lower manifold pressure with gear up. The manifold pressure is somewhere around 12-15 inches but is not exactly the same on every plane. You’ll even get a gear horn in slow flight while trying to stay straight and level. Just ask @Lowflynjack about listening to my gear horn on the radio while I tried to stay in formation with a 170 for pictures.
 
aggie06 said:
That’s not right. The gear horn sounds above 25 degrees of flaps and gear up OR at lower manifold pressure with gear up. The manifold pressure is somewhere around 12-15 inches but is not exactly the same on every plane. You’ll even get a gear horn in slow flight while trying to stay straight and level. Just ask @Lowflynjack about listening to my gear horn on the radio while I tried to stay in formation with a 170 for pictures.
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I forgot about that! I’m about to have a 182 photo ship, which will make it easier for faster planes!
 
aggie06 said:
That’s not right. The gear horn sounds above 25 degrees of flaps and gear up OR at lower manifold pressure with gear up. The manifold pressure is somewhere around 12-15 inches but is not exactly the same on every plane. You’ll even get a gear horn in slow flight while trying to stay straight and level. Just ask @Lowflynjack about listening to my gear horn on the radio while I tried to stay in formation with a 170 for pictures.
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......and it's relatively-easily adjustable to suit your preference :)

Jim
 
flyingcheesehead said:
No, no, NO! :mad2: Full flaps. Every time. Yes, it's harder than with 20 degrees, but you just need to learn how to do it, otherwise those more-challenging situations where you do need full flaps, you're going to screw up.

Also, if you ever fly an R182 (RG), the gear warning horn doesn't come on until you go past 20 degrees of flaps. No quicker way to become one of "those who have" than to learn to land it with 20 degrees.



Yup. All of this... The 40-degree-flap birds are noticeably more difficult to land with 40 than with 20. The difference isn't nearly as pronounced on the 30-degree-flap birds. But it should be done with full flaps, every time... And if for some reason you NEED to land with less than full flaps (I can't think of what that reason would be) it's much easier anyway.
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Mine the the 40 deg flaps and admittedly it is very different. But worth being more confident in performing as if I had to get down and stop short and have a sharper angle of descent I would better served by the 40 degree flap landing. Going into KCGS a few weeks ago after landing a bit long I felt 40deg flaps would have been a better call.
I was mulling going up anyway with my CFI for some approach work- will plan on tossing some of these in.
 
The pics are big, but it works every time. Todd used to be the publisher of The Southern Aviator, an old aviation magazine, and gave me this. I bought my 182 from him
182 landing.jpg
182 landing 2.jpg
 
aggie06 said:
That’s not right. The gear horn sounds above 25 degrees of flaps and gear up OR at lower manifold pressure with gear up. The manifold pressure is somewhere around 12-15 inches but is not exactly the same on every plane.
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I believe the book spec is 12 inches... But it's quite possible to come down final at 12 inches, in which case you won't get the horn until you're in the flare. One of our club pilots did just that and the amount of time it took him to process that the alternating tone was the gear warning and not the stall horn and go around, the prop and part of the belly hit the runway. So, use full flaps.

deyoung said:
Strong gusty crosswind?
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I've landed a 182 in a direct crosswind gusting to 35 knots and didn't hit the rudder stops once... In fact, it had plenty of authority left. I'm sure it's capable of a 45-50 knot crosswind in the right hands.

So, no. Use full flaps. Even in a strong gusty crosswind.

benyflyguy said:
Mine the the 40 deg flaps and admittedly it is very different. But worth being more confident in performing as if I had to get down and stop short and have a sharper angle of descent I would better served by the 40 degree flap landing. Going into KCGS a few weeks ago after landing a bit long I felt 40deg flaps would have been a better call.
I was mulling going up anyway with my CFI for some approach work- will plan on tossing some of these in.
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Highly recommend it. (In case you couldn't tell. ;)) It's definitely harder, and it'll probably take you an additional practice session after you're done with the CFI to really get it down, but it's well worth it.
 
ktup-flyer said:
The pics are big, but it works every time. Todd used to be the publisher of The Southern Aviator, an old aviation magazine, and gave me this. I bought my 182 from him
View attachment 74661
View attachment 74662
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Skylanes don't like to slow down?!? o_O:dunno: I used to call that thing the drag-o-matic! With some practice, I got to where I could fly an ILS at cruise power and configuration until 300 AGL, and still have it on speed by the threshold and land early in the touchdown zone.

That said, I think his technique is mostly good. The only other thing I take exception to is the aft trim and pushing forward on final. Sure, it'll make the flare easier, but it'll make a go-around quite dangerous. You already need to push HARD on a go-around in a 182. The extra aft trim could cause a stall-spin on a go-around for someone who wasn't ready for that.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Skylanes don't like to slow down?!? o_O:dunno: I used to call that thing the drag-o-matic! With some practice, I got to where I could fly an ILS at cruise power and configuration until 300 AGL, and still have it on speed by the threshold and land early in the touchdown zone.

That said, I think his technique is mostly good. The only other thing I take exception to is the aft trim and pushing forward on final. Sure, it'll make the flare easier, but it'll make a go-around quite dangerous. You already need to push HARD on a go-around in a 182. The extra aft trim could cause a stall-spin on a go-around for someone who wasn't ready for that.
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Sometimes the best reason for engine out practice at altitude isn't just "find the field and glide to it." If one had trimmed to maintain best glide, the addition of full power when terminating the exercise can be a real eye-opener!
 
My plane is a 182, and the vast majority of my flight time has been in those.

If you kill power, you’ll drop quickly. That engine is heavy. I usually carry a small amount of power into the landing, especially if there’s lots of room. Let the plane guide itself to the ground, basically. Then you don’t need tons of trim (just a bit).
 
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