Land Long

SkyHog

SkyHog

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Feb 23, 2005
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Everything Offends Me
One evening, I was cleared to land on runway 26 at KABQ....8/26 is a very, very long runway, and most of the time, traffic lands on runway 8. If you land on runway 26, and get off right away, you have approximately a 20+ minute taxi in a straight line to get to the FBO.

Anyways, back to the question...I was cleared to land "long" on runway 26, and I took that to land way, way down the runway to minimize the taxi. This seemed to be what the controller was asking for, but I have to wonder....what is a long landing? If I know I can get down and stopped in 2000ft, can I land at the 2000ft remaining sign? Am I expected to land well beyond the TDZ, but also well short of the displaced threshold for runway 8? Could it be considered reckless to land with just enough room to exit at the last turn off?

What I did was aim about halfway down and I got off around the 17/35 intersection.....but it was weird landing that far down a runway.

What say y'all?
 
As long as you're operating Part 91 and don't screw it up (and at towered airports, tower knows it's coming), you can do all that. Part 135/121 must touch down in the touchdown zone.
 
SkyHog said:
One evening, I was cleared to land on runway 26 at KABQ....8/26 is a very, very long runway, and most of the time, traffic lands on runway 8. If you land on runway 26, and get off right away, you have approximately a 20+ minute taxi in a straight line to get to the FBO.

Anyways, back to the question...I was cleared to land "long" on runway 26, and I took that to land way, way down the runway to minimize the taxi. This seemed to be what the controller was asking for, but I have to wonder....what is a long landing? If I know I can get down and stopped in 2000ft, can I land at the 2000ft remaining sign? Am I expected to land well beyond the TDZ, but also well short of the displaced threshold for runway 8? Could it be considered reckless to land with just enough room to exit at the last turn off?

What I did was aim about halfway down and I got off around the 17/35 intersection.....but it was weird landing that far down a runway.

What say y'all?
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Don't go off the end and don't do something that looks stupidly aggressive and it won't matter.
 
I request that at KRDU if I get the 5L/23R, it's 10,000' and if I put the 172 down at the numbers, I'll tie up the runway longer than necessary for the big iron behind me. 2000' down is the cross taxi-way that will take me back to the FBO from where I started. I try to land just after the touchdown zone and make the first entrance. Everybody wins. Less Hobbs for me, no worried controller or airline captain. :)
 
TWR: "Land long..."
You: "Where exactly do you want me?"
TWR: "Land on the third stripe after the touchdown zone, then be off by Taxiway Bravo."
You: "Wilco"
 
jdwatson said:
I request that at KRDU if I get the 5L/23R, it's 10,000' and if I put the 172 down at the numbers, I'll tie up the runway longer than necessary for the big iron behind me. 2000' down is the cross taxi-way that will take me back to the FBO from where I started. I try to land just after the touchdown zone and make the first entrance. Everybody wins. Less Hobbs for me, no worried controller or airline captain. :)
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RDU Just had me land over on the "military" runway. :D
 
I was wondering this the other day. I was cleared to land long at KLBB, do you turn base like a normal pattern and then just keep your speed up down the runway to where you want to touch down? Or do you turn base at the numbers to hit at the end of the runway?
 
bigred177 said:
I was wondering this the other day. I was cleared to land long at KLBB, do you turn base like a normal pattern and then just keep your speed up down the runway to where you want to touch down? Or do you turn base at the numbers to hit at the end of the runway?
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When I was at KSGF and was asked to land long, or if I wanted to land long on 03 or 14 because my hangar and fuel were both on the other side of town from the appoach ends of those two runways, then I would do one of two things.

1) I would still aim for the numbers but during the round out over the numbers I would slowly add power until I had just enough power to keep the plane flying in ground effect. Then I'd continue to fly in ground effect about 2/3 of the way down the 8000' runway and then chop the power and land.

2) I would fly the approach (especially if it was a straight in approach) at cruise power and about 150-160 mph all the way to the numbers (but only if the air was smooth). I'd chop the power over the numbers at about 10' AGL, bleed off the airspeed, transition to landing configuration, and land. All while floating down the runway typically in ground effect. I'd land about 1/2 way down after floating for 4000' and pull off about 2/3 of the way down.

Both are great practice/training. I used the latter technique if there was big iron behind me and the tower needed me to expedite. I used the former when I wanted to reduce taxi time to my hangar or the fuel farm. Both are exercises that my instructor had me frequently do during my primary training.
 
jdwatson said:
I thought that runway was decommissioned and is now a taxi-way, unless we're talking about RWY-32. I love RWY-32.
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14/32 would be the one. I just call it the military runway because it goes over to the ANG parking.

SteveinMichigan said:
What's so great about RWY 32? (Honest question, not being a smartass...I've never flown into KRDU)
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RDU has the two parallel runways of 5/23RL which are busy busy busy with 121ers at certain times of the day. When I flew in there, I was coming in from the NW. They originally cleared me to one of the parallel runways, then asked if I would rather have 32. Brought me right over the top of airport where I looked out and saw a string of planes arriving, and waiting to depart. Anvil base and final and there was no wait for me. :)

02133.gif
 
EdFred said:
14/32 would be the one. I just call it the military runway because it goes over to the ANG parking.



RDU has the two parallel runways of 5/23RL which are busy busy busy with 121ers at certain times of the day. When I flew in there, I was coming in from the NW. They originally cleared me to one of the parallel runways, then asked if I would rather have 32. Brought me right over the top of airport where I looked out and saw a string of planes arriving, and waiting to depart. Anvil base and final and there was no wait for me. :)

02133.gif
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I figured it had to do with traffic but thought I would ask.
 
timwinters said:
When I was at KSGF and was asked to land long, or if I wanted to land long on 03 or 14 because my hangar and fuel were both on the other side of town from the appoach ends of those two runways, then I would do one of two things.

1) I would still aim for the numbers but during the round out over the numbers I would slowly add power until I had just enough power to keep the plane flying in ground effect. Then I'd continue to fly in ground effect about 2/3 of the way down the 8000' runway and then chop the power and land.

2) I would fly the approach (especially if it was a straight in approach) at cruise power and about 150-160 mph all the way to the numbers (but only if the air was smooth). I'd chop the power over the numbers at about 10' AGL, bleed off the airspeed, transition to landing configuration, and land. All while floating down the runway typically in ground effect. I'd land about 1/2 way down after floating for 4000' and pull off about 2/3 of the way down.

Both are great practice/training. I used the latter technique if there was big iron behind me and the tower needed me to expedite. I used the former when I wanted to reduce taxi time to my hangar or the fuel farm. Both are exercises that my instructor had me frequently do during my primary training.
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In my mind the training you mentioned is the key thing here. Those are both non-standard enough that you could get yourself into trouble if you don't practice them. Flying low and slow that close to the ground for "long" periods of time, susceptible to wind gusts and drift is more hazardous than a normal landing.
 
gprellwitz said:
In my mind the training you mentioned is the key thing here. Those are both non-standard enough that you could get yourself into trouble if you don't practice them. Flying low and slow that close to the ground for "long" periods of time, susceptible to wind gusts and drift is more hazardous than a normal landing.
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Agreed, I thought about that a few hours after I made my post. I would not advocate anyone doing this unless...

a) they adequately trained with an instructor, preferably an instructor in his/her 60's or 70's and not one in his 20's.
and/or
b) they fly often enough and long enough in the same plane to be completely comforatable with in through it's entire flight envelope.
 
timwinters said:
a) they adequately trained with an instructor, preferably an instructor in his/her 60's or 70's and not one in his 20's.
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There are plenty of good instructors under 60 capable of flying a simple slow airplane down a runway. Doing anything low, IMO, is way easier...as you have a great reference (the ground).

Any pilot that isn't comfortable flying a few feet above a runway for the length of the runway needs to work on that. It isn't difficult.
 
I've landed long at my own request more times that I can count. Usually at large airports with the FBO on one end. If a big jet can use up the whole runway so can I.
 
Nick: I'm on an airport that's over 7,000 feet long. My hanger is way down on one end. I need 3,000 feet to land with a bit of room to spare. I routinely ask for a long landing and touch down about the middle of the runway. It saves taxi time; If I land shorter, I have to land, then taxi on the other side and later taxi back across the runway, and tower can put another plane on the far end behind me if it's a recip. Expedites a lot of things.

I routinely ask for a long landing if landing on a long runway. I've specified a taxiway where I would touch down or plan to turn off at El Paso so they could sequence traffic behind me.

Pretty routine stuff. Just leave room for an adequate margin of err and for a go-around after touchdown if necessary.

Best,

Dave
 
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At SAW if landing on 19, I didn't even descend from TPA until over the numbers. not abeam...OVER. Well, that was in the Cherokee, I don't think the Comanche will gome down quite so quick.
 
SteveinMichigan said:
What's so great about RWY 32? (Honest question, not being a smartass...I've never flown into KRDU)
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I love RWY 32. Unless the winds really force me to one of the big runways, I always try to return to RDU via RWY32. There are challenges to it, so you have to be awake and aware. If you take-off on 14, it's downhill and at the end of the runway is Umstead Park, lots of tall trees. Even at 3750', it feels like you're not going to clear them. Departures on 14, aren't all that common because you have to cross 23L/5R to get there. Better know which way traffic is flowing on the big runways if you have to abort the landing. There used to be a taxiway that connected to the runway some where around midway, (the current airport diagram doesn't have it) I always wanted to make that taxiway. You *had* to be right on speed to touchdown with no float, otherwise you'll be going way too fast to make the turn off. RWY32 gets you out of the sequence with the big iron and on the ground faster. The tower/ground controllers at RDU will get you across 5R/23L quickly and safely.

Because of Umstead Park, a night landing on RWY32 is a black-hole landing. Zero lights in the park, I think the last 3-5 miles is over the forest, right up to the fence. Now you're looking at an upslope (rises 7' end-to-end) runway at night, and headed right for the heart of the airport. Finding the runway at night can be a challenge, not to mention not ending up high and fast too. Here's my "trick": RDU's VOR is on the corner of 14/32 and 5R/23L; Dial in the VOR (117.2) and follow the needle to the runway/airport. Use the VASI and manage your speed. It's one of the most satisfying night landings you can do.

Man, do I miss flying !!
 
The military aero club was at the south end of the field, there was only one mid field turn off. If you did not "land long" you had a two mile taxi. If landing to the north, land long but plan on turning off "mid field", you still had a 1 mile taxi back to the south end.

They would not allow intersection departures. If taking off to the north, no problem.
If taking off to the south, it was a 2 + mile taxi to the departure end. In the summer and with the Mooney, taxing with a tail breeze the engine could over heat. Normally had to stop at the mid field, turn around and face the breeze for a while, then continue taxi, and then face the breeze again to cool a bit before starting the takeoff.
 
jesse said:
Any pilot that isn't comfortable flying a few feet above a runway for the length of the runway needs to work on that. It isn't difficult.
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Why is that? To practice fly'n in ground effect similar to soft field TO's? :dunno:
 
Newbie question here...so...turn base at the numbers? Does that mean that I can turn base at SWF for the 11817 ft rwy and a humongus displaced threshold alongside the numbers? Been in and out of there many times and never even talked about it with my instructor, or even thought about it...is this a common procedure?
 
DutchessFlier said:
Newbie question here...so...turn base at the numbers?
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"Cleared to land" means you own the runway - all of it - until you land and exit. Well, not at KOSH during Airventure, but still.....

Make your plan and then fly it. If you plan on landing on the numbers, don't turn base at the numbers. If you plan to land half way down the runway at SWF, then turn base anywhere appropriate to land on that spot. Don't fly downwind half way to KPOU if you are landing way down the runway at KSWF.

-Skip
 
DutchessFlier said:
Newbie question here...so...turn base at the numbers?
Click to expand...

Depending on the runway, it's condition and ATC, you do just that... abeam the numbers make your turn to base and fly your normal pattern, even though some of it will be over a runway.

The one that always confuses me is: "Report 5nm base..."
 
I don't think anyone turns base abeam the numbers unless there's a howling wind down the runway or they're trying to land way long. Otherwise, they're going find their base-to-final turn is very low and leaves them with an extremely short final to stabilize in final approach configuration before flaring to land.
 
Any competent pilot should be able to hit any part of the runway they desire.
 
I had a very nice tour of the tower at Brown Field (KSDM) in San Diego a few months ago. It is an 8,000' runway, (26R), and this issue came up, it seemed to be a bone of contention with the tower crew. They said they will get busy with a lot of small planes in the pattern, so they will start giving "Land Long" instructions, so they can speed things up with the landings.

It seems that most pilots will continue to land in the first third of the runway, negating any purpose for the 'land long' instruction in the first place. I asked him where, exactly, they wanted my Warrior to land? He pointed to a spot a little further than half way down the runway, giving me about 3,500' of runway. My POH suggests that I need around 1,400'.

I have never been given that instruction, I guess it is pretty much the same as LAHS, only on the last half of the runway. If you blow it, you run into the chain link fence instead of another airplane.

John
 
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Ron Levy said:
I don't think anyone turns base abeam the numbers unless there's a howling wind down the runway or they're trying to land way long. Otherwise, they're going find their base-to-final turn is very low and leaves them with an extremely short final to stabilize in final approach configuration before flaring to land.
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I have, and the wind wasn't howling, and I wasn't landing long. I even made the first taxiway which was only 1200' from the approach end.
 
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